1. #1

    Could hcg be bad for me?

    Hey guys need some help. Have been on HCG mono 300iu for 3 years but never felt great. started to feel really bad and test came back at 177 total on hcg mono. Tried clomid for about 4 months. Total t (458) Felt better but got bad sides (blurry vision).started TRT 3 weeks ago 100mg cypionate weekly. Felt great first day after shot (maybe placebo?) but started to feel bad 2 days before next shot ( trying dr crisler protocol of hcg 2 days before and 1 day before) the day I took 250iu hcg did that for two weeks then this last week decided to go to every 3.5 day 50mg+250hcg in same shot. Still feeling like shit (super lethargic, can't focus, etc) I know it's only 3 weeks on TRT but I'm wondering if HCG is what's making me feel like crap. If maybe I felt better on clomid because was off hcg for 4 months? Should I just continue with test cyp alone and see if I feel better or should I continue to do both test and hcg fr another 3 weeks until I get my labs on TRT for 6 weeks? Thanks in advance for any help. I'm pretty desperate as I've felt like crap for over 4 years and now it's affecting my focus and energy to where I can't do good in school.

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  3. #2
    Xavier,
    Are you under the care of a experienced doctor of these issues? If you don't have a good doctor, I think that's the next step.

    458 total T sounds low while under treatment. Many other important factors to check that an experienced doctor can help with.

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier Daniels View Post
    Hey guys need some help. Have been on HCG mono 300iu for 3 years but never felt great. started to feel really bad and test came back at 177 total on hcg mono. Tried clomid for about 4 months. Total t (458) Felt better but got bad sides (blurry vision).started TRT 3 weeks ago 100mg cypionate weekly. Felt great first day after shot (maybe placebo?) but started to feel bad 2 days before next shot ( trying dr crisler protocol of hcg 2 days before and 1 day before) the day I took 250iu hcg did that for two weeks then this last week decided to go to every 3.5 day 50mg+250hcg in same shot. Still feeling like shit (super lethargic, can't focus, etc) I know it's only 3 weeks on TRT but I'm wondering if HCG is what's making me feel like crap. If maybe I felt better on clomid because was off hcg for 4 months? Should I just continue with test cyp alone and see if I feel better or should I continue to do both test and hcg fr another 3 weeks until I get my labs on TRT for 6 weeks? Thanks in advance for any help. I'm pretty desperate as I've felt like crap for over 4 years and now it's affecting my focus and energy to where I can't do good in school.
    HCG can cause estrogen issues, but I doubt that's the case since you're using a low dose of both test and HCG. The half-life of HCG is relatively short (about 48 hours) compared to that of testosterone cypionate, so if HCG were the culprit you'd be feeling improvement right before your next injection, since 60-70% of it would be cleared by then. Then again, if you have low SHBG and are a naturally high aromatizer, you may actually be having estrogen issues. Do you have your most recent full labs when you were on clomid? If so, post them. The more info we have, the better.

  5. #4
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    Some men don't need HCG and feel better without it. I use 500iu of HCG every 3 1/2 days and I like the positive affects it gives me. We all are different and it can take time to get dialed in.
    Last edited by Vince; 05-20-2017 at 08:06 AM.
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier Daniels View Post
    Hey guys need some help. Have been on HCG mono 300iu for 3 years but never felt great. started to feel really bad and test came back at 177 total on hcg mono. Tried clomid for about 4 months. Total t (458) Felt better but got bad sides (blurry vision).started TRT 3 weeks ago 100mg cypionate weekly. Felt great first day after shot (maybe placebo?) but started to feel bad 2 days before next shot ( trying dr crisler protocol of hcg 2 days before and 1 day before) the day I took 250iu hcg did that for two weeks then this last week decided to go to every 3.5 day 50mg+250hcg in same shot. Still feeling like shit (super lethargic, can't focus, etc) I know it's only 3 weeks on TRT but I'm wondering if HCG is what's making me feel like crap. If maybe I felt better on clomid because was off hcg for 4 months? Should I just continue with test cyp alone and see if I feel better or should I continue to do both test and hcg fr another 3 weeks until I get my labs on TRT for 6 weeks? Thanks in advance for any help. I'm pretty desperate as I've felt like crap for over 4 years and now it's affecting my focus and energy to where I can't do good in school.
    Stability and consistency are the hallmark of a good treatment protocol and you're not doing that, you can't flip flop around and do this "Ill did this today and I'll do that next week" mentality, you'll never find success with this as you're doing it. Get on one regimen and stick to it for at least 6 weeks...long journey, not a sprint.

  7. #6
    Thank you! My labs on hcg before clomid when I started feeling extremely fatigued were as followed: TT 176 (250-1100) FT 47 (35-155). SHBG 14 (10-50). Prolactin 10.3 (2-18). After starting clomid and being on for 12 weeks they were TT 433(250-1100), FT 94.4(35-155) Estradiol (non sensitive) 40 (39 or <). After ha IMG bad sides on clomid I switched to HCG 300Iu 3/week and after 12 weeks on that felt horrible again and labs were TT 250 (250-1100)FT 65(35-155), SHBG 13( 10-50), PSA 1 (<4). I am under the care od an ENDO but he wanted 200mg every 2 weeks and no hcg so I've been looking for a protocol to follow here. Planning on sticking with Nelson's but not sure about hcg or if I need to give it more time. I've been sub 400 TT For years so maybe it will just take me a while to feel better

  8. #7
    Moderator Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier Daniels View Post
    Thank you! My labs on hcg before clomid when I started feeling extremely fatigued were as followed: TT 176 (250-1100) FT 47 (35-155). SHBG 14 (10-50). Prolactin 10.3 (2-18). After starting clomid and being on for 12 weeks they were TT 433(250-1100), FT 94.4(35-155) Estradiol (non sensitive) 40 (39 or <). After ha IMG bad sides on clomid I switched to HCG 300Iu 3/week and after 12 weeks on that felt horrible again and labs were TT 250 (250-1100)FT 65(35-155), SHBG 13( 10-50), PSA 1 (<4). I am under the care od an ENDO but he wanted 200mg every 2 weeks and no hcg so I've been looking for a protocol to follow here. Planning on sticking with Nelson's but not sure about hcg or if I need to give it more time. I've been sub 400 TT For years so maybe it will just take me a while to feel better
    I would considered going on trt protocol, a combination of both testosterone and HCG. Also I would inject both every three and a half days.
    I am not a medical practitioner. Any suggestions I provide are not medical recommendations and are just my opinions. Please consult with your physician on any matters concerning your health.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    I would considered going on trt protocol, a combination of both testosterone and HCG. Also I would inject both every three and a half days.
    Thanks Vince! planning to stick with the 50mg and 250iu of HCG every 3.5 days... just was hoping to feel better instantly as i felt with my first T injection. While i recognize that might have been placebo... i know i felt really good and energized and was just worried that hcg was a downer for me. i'll stay on both until my next labs 4 weeks from now.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Bentiger07 View Post
    Xavier,
    Are you under the care of a experienced doctor of these issues? If you don't have a good doctor, I think that's the next step.

    458 total T sounds low while under treatment. Many other important factors to check that an experienced doctor can help with.
    Yes, I am seeing an experienced ENDO, although TRT doesn't seem to be his strong suit. he claims he has guys that have been on for 20 years on 200mg every 2 weeks and they feel great... that plus the fact that he said his goal for me (a 26 year old male) is to get my levels above 400 worry me some. I had a script from him for HCG and thats why I'm able to use both, although he said HCG is useless with TRT and shouldn't be used and that it doesn't help with fertility. all things that i disagree with him on. He has checked me for other factors such as thyroid and everything else is negative (per 2 endos) I do have a small pituitary tumor which they are contributing to my low T. Thank you

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier Daniels View Post
    Yes, I am seeing an experienced ENDO, although TRT doesn't seem to be his strong suit. he claims he has guys that have been on for 20 years on 200mg every 2 weeks and they feel great... that plus the fact that he said his goal for me (a 26 year old male) is to get my levels above 400 worry me some. I had a script from him for HCG and thats why I'm able to use both, although he said HCG is useless with TRT and shouldn't be used and that it doesn't help with fertility. all things that i disagree with him on. He has checked me for other factors such as thyroid and everything else is negative (per 2 endos) I do have a small pituitary tumor which they are contributing to my low T. Thank you
    This doctor is clueless - HRT has been shown to be an effective addition to a TRT protocol time and time again. If his patients claim they feel well on 200mg of testosterone every two weeks they are either lying to him. How does he monitor estradiol?


    You deserve better care.
    I am not a physician. Comments offered here are for discussion purposes only. Please consult your doctor before initiating, changing, or stopping any therapy.

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by CoastWatcher View Post
    This doctor is clueless - HRT has been shown to be an effective addition to a TRT protocol time and time again. If his patients claim they feel well on 200mg of testosterone every two weeks they are either lying to him. How does he monitor estradiol?


    You deserve better care.
    I agree. He used the non sensitive estradiol after me begging him to order E 40 (<39). He said he rarely treats high estradiol. I told him I was concerned because I have high Body fat but he said even if my estradiol increases it's fine as long as my T goes up also. I'm looking into scheduling with defy as I know my options there would be way better. For now I think I will stick with the 50mg T +250 hcg every 3.5 days until I go in to see dr SAYA. Just wasn't sure if I should stay off hcg and it could be responsible for me feeling like crap still after 2 weeks. I figure I'll stick with it and see what my labs show in 4 weeks. But thanks for any input and advice!

  13. #12
    You're right to disagree. HCG has been shown to help preserve fertility. The good news is it seems like you did some HW to know your doc isn't experienced in TRT. I really feel bad for patients who don't know they're with a clueless doctor, as that was me for years. Time to dump him. Maybe send him this study by email so he can offer others better care:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23260550

    As for your question, I'm not sure how to answer but others may be able to. I'm still learning. I know you're on the right track seeking experienced doctors.

    Personally, my ED was severe and I had it for many yrs. TRT/HRT seems to work for many people, but not everyone. It wasn't until 1-2 weeks ago that I started adding foods/supplements that increase nitric oxide that I started to feel better. I had a thought that if PDE5 inhibitors keep nitric oxide in the system longer but I'm still not getting results, maybe it's because I didn't have enough nitric oxide. Crossing my fingers that this solution lasts.

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Bentiger07 View Post
    You're right to disagree. HCG has been shown to help preserve fertility. The good news is it seems like you did some HW to know your doc isn't experienced in TRT. I really feel bad for patients who don't know they're with a clueless doctor, as that was me for years. Time to dump him. Maybe send him this study by email so he can offer others better care:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23260550

    As for your question, I'm not sure how to answer but others may be able to. I'm still learning. I know you're on the right track seeking experienced doctors.

    Personally, my ED was severe and I had it for many yrs. TRT/HRT seems to work for many people, but not everyone. It wasn't until 1-2 weeks ago that I started adding foods/supplements that increase nitric oxide that I started to feel better. I had a thought that if PDE5 inhibitors keep nitric oxide in the system longer but I'm still not getting results, maybe it's because I didn't have enough nitric oxide. Crossing my fingers that this solution lasts.
    Thank you for your input and the article. I will enjoy showing it to him as he is very arrogant. Starting to feel a little better after sticking to 50mg and 250 hcg every 3.5 days. hope to continue to feel better and get optimal

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