Seven and One-Half Weeks on TRT After Clomid Failure

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JakeH

Member
Tried a clomid restart with Defy, due to poor protocol with prior Dr., then returned to TRT with Defy, and I am now planning to drop the AI for the next round of blood work, as taking it makes me feel bad. I think I have plenty of upward room, considering 7 doses of 0.20AI had [email protected] at trough.

Overall, I feel good, but I am having a tinge of anxiety 12-24 hours after each shot and trouble sleeping. Question: I wonder if I should lower my Test CYP dose after my 90day blood work and consult to bring the trough down a bit, in order to see if the anxiety and sleep issues are related to high peaks?


Age: 40
Height 73.5"
Weight 192
Daily supplements:
Cialis

I switched to Defy Medical on January 11th for two reasons: 1) my doctor required in-office shots, which prevented dosages every 3.5 days; 2) he would not entertain the idea of multiple shots to prevent my 48-72hr spike that led to my feeling awful every week, with pronounced redness from my nipples to my ears; sweating, ED resistant to higher doses of Cialis and Viagra. So, I felt crazy for three days each week.


I met with Defy on Jan 11th, and I was told I could give a Clomid Restart a shot if I wanted to, though my chance of success is less than 50% due to age, past injuries, etc.

Clomid did raise my numbers, but I felt horrible mentally and physically, so I switched back to TRT/HCG/AI on Feb 28th, 2017.

Here are latest results from 7.5 weeks of 2x per week 80mg Test Cyp/350 HCG/with 0.20 AI the last 3.5 weeks (note: I was told to wait a few weeks to start the AI to give my E2 a chance to rise after it being so low during the Clomid/AI challenge, and I forgot to take it until week 4, because I was feeling good and erections were strong on 5mg Cialis. I did not like the AI side effects, however:numb penis, moods, more anxiety and higher doses of Cialis required).

Blood Draw at 8:30 AM 14 April 2017 (Trough)
Total Test____1130 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free ________22.3 pg/mL 6.8 - 21.5 [lower at this age?]
E2 Sensitive __25.5 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0

PRE-TRT
Total Test________232 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free ____________3.3 pg/mL 8.7 - 25.1
E2 non-Sensitive __39 pg/mL <59
LH _____________3.3 miU/ml REF: 0.8 to 7.6 <<<different range>>>
SHBG___________49.6

1x per week 150mg Cyp, 500HCG (23Sep-Nov7 2016)
Total Test________433ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free ____________7.6 pg/mL 8.7 - 25.1
E2 non-Sensitive __42 pg/mL <59
SHBG___________42.6

1x per week 170mg CYP,500hcg (Nov7-Jan9 2017)

Total Test________979 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free ____________20.5 pg/mL 8.7 - 25.1
E2 non-Sensitive __46 pg/mL <59
SHBG___________39.6

Restart Attempt
Begin HCG (300ui) daily x 14 days on 23 Jan
Day 14 HCG 300iu Daily

Total Test____325 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free ________6.6 pg/mL 8.7 - 25.1
E2 Sensitive __10.6 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0


Begin CLOMID:
Day 14 of Clomid ED 25mg Clomid/0.22AI compounded
Total Test____544 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free ________9.4 pg/mL 8.7 - 25.1
E2 Sensitive __10.8 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0
LH __________8.7 miU/ml HIGH REF: 1.7 to 8.6

Day 22 of Clomid (last pill on day 20) 25mg Clomid/0.22AI compounded
Total Test_____639 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free _________13.4 pg/mL 8.6 - 25.1
E2 Sensitive ___20 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0
LH __________9.6 miU/ml HIGH REF: 1.7 to 8.6















 
Last edited:
Defy Medical TRT clinic doctor

JakeH

Member
So how are you doing currently?
25.5 pg/ml isn't bad at all for estradiol.
Do you feel you'd do better at a higher number?

These are on point. Don't simply chase a number.

As I noted in the first post, I feel okay overall, but I am getting a bit of anxiety 12-24 hours after injection and I am having trouble sleeping, which leads to my original question of should I consider lowering my dose to see if it is a response to too high of a peak number if my trough is in the 1100s. I will not lower it for another 6 weeks, as I have already discontinued the AI, so I need fresh labs and a consult before I change another variable.

With regard to E2, I would like to see how I feel at a higher E2, since my T levels are at the top end. I have not taken an AI since 10 April, which was my last shot day before the blood test that produced an [email protected], and the negative symptoms I associate with AIs have resolved. My penile sensitivity is back, and erections are working like crazy, while the moods have stabilized. I am not sure why I respond to that drug the way I do, but having used it with clomid and a few weeks on TRT, I would prefer to avoid it at all costs.
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
As I noted in the first post, I feel okay overall, but I am getting a bit of anxiety 12-24 hours after injection and I am having trouble sleeping, which leads to my original question of should I consider lowering my dose to see if it is a response to too high of a peak number if my trough is in the 1100s. I will not lower it for another 6 weeks, as I have already discontinued the AI, so I need fresh labs and a consult before I change another variable.

With regard to E2, I would like to see how I feel at a higher E2, since my T levels are at the top end. I have not taken an AI since 10 April, which was my last shot day before the blood test that produced an [email protected], and the negative symptoms I associate with AIs have resolved. My penile sensitivity is back, and erections are working like crazy, while the moods have stabilized. I am not sure why I respond to that drug the way I do, but having used it with clomid and a few weeks on TRT, I would prefer to avoid it at all costs.

It's not unreasonable to wonder if slightly less testosterone, given your trough reading, might be a positive move. If you weren't dealing with the anxiety you mentioned, would you be satisfied with where you stand?
 

JakeH

Member
It's not unreasonable to wonder if slightly less testosterone, given your trough reading, might be a positive move. If you weren't dealing with the anxiety you mentioned, would you be satisfied with where you stand?

Yes, I would be satisfied at this point. I spoke with Defy (they are on it, I swear), and Melissa said to drop to 0.35 ml (70mg) every 3.5 days to see if the lowered dose makes a difference with my post-injection symptoms, and then we will reconsider when we meet in 6ish weeks. I feel fortunate to be very close to being tuned-in already.
 

CoastWatcher

Moderator
Yes, I would be satisfied at this point. I spoke with Defy (they are on it, I swear), and Melissa said to drop to 0.35 ml (70mg) every 3.5 days to see if the lowered dose makes a difference with my post-injection symptoms, and then we will reconsider when we meet in 6ish weeks. I feel fortunate to be very close to being tuned-in already.

You really aren't far at all from being balanced. Good luck.
 

JakeH

Member
Yes, I would be satisfied at this point. I spoke with Defy (they are on it, I swear), and Melissa said to drop to 0.35 ml (70mg) every 3.5 days to see if the lowered dose makes a difference with my post-injection symptoms, and then we will reconsider when we meet in 6ish weeks. I feel fortunate to be very close to being tuned-in already.

6 weeks later, I had more blood work done prior to my consult on June 2nd. I have not felt as good the past few weeks at 70 mg T Cyp and 350 HCG every 3.5 days (No AI), but wanted to give it a full 6 weeks before I went back to my original dose. My prescription is still for 80mg E3.5days, so I will return to that. It is wild that dropping from 160mg per week to 140mg per week reduced my total Test by almost half.

13.5 Week Blood Draw at 8:30 AM 19 May 2017 (Trough)
Total Test____675 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free ________16.5 pg/mL 6.8 - 21.5
E2 Sensitive __25.3 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0



7.5 Week Blood Draw at 8:30 AM 14 April 2017 (Trough)@80mg Test Cyp/350 HCG/with 0.20 AI E3.5 days
Total Test____1130 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free ________22.3 pg/mL 6.8 - 21.5
E2 Sensitive __25.5 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0
 
Last edited:

madman

Super Moderator
6 weeks later, I had more blood work done prior to my consult on June 2nd. I have not felt as good the past few weeks at 70 mg T Cyp and 350 HCG every 3.5 days (No AI), but wanted to give it a full 6 weeks before I went back to my original dose. My prescription is still for 80mg E3.5days, so I will return to that. I it wild that dropping from 160mg per week to 140mg per week reduced my total Test by almost half.

13.5 Week Blood Draw at 8:30 AM 19 May 2017 (Trough)
Total Test____675 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free ________16.5 pg/mL 6.8 - 21.5
E2 Sensitive __25.3 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0



7.5 Week Blood Draw at 8:30 AM 14 April 2017 (Trough)@80mg Test Cyp/350 HCG/with 0.20 AI E3.5 days
Total Test____1130 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free ________22.3 pg/mL 6.8 - 21.5
E2 Sensitive __25.5 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0

You are closer to 700 I would try 150mg week split to 75mg every 3.5 days you may hit 900s as you have nothing to loose except another 6 weeks of your time until you retest levels as being at the very upper end is not always good. I would look into your hcg as it could possibly be why you feel so wound up as some have been known to get insomnia/anxiety from hcg.
 

JakeH

Member
You are closer to 700 I would try 150mg week split to 75mg every 3.5 days you may hit 900s as you have nothing to loose except another 6 weeks of your time until you retest levels as being at the very upper end is not always good. I would look into your hcg as it could possibly be why you feel so wound up as some have been known to get insomnia/anxiety from hcg.

Good points all. I will speak with the Dr about that. I do not mind tweaking and testing every 6 weeks.

As for the HCG, I would like to try TRT without it, but I am getting married soon and would like to try to have kids in two years, so I do not want to let my testes go idle and then try to jump start them later with HCG.
 
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