SubQ: Lost the Positive Effects of IM

JCUSN · Apr 16, 2017

Hello everyone.

I've been on 50mg Test C, twice per week IM and 200iu HCG M/W/F for about 10 weeks. I was experiencing very heightened libido, good strength gain and muscle gain, more energy...all the good stuff. However, I was getting a bit of acne along my hairline on back of my neck.

I read about subQ injections being even better, so decided to try them. For about two weeks or so, I felt the same. Then, I woke up one morning, and suddenly felt panicked. I was worried. I was anxious. I was nervous. And there was no explanation. My libido disappeared. I wasn't getting any spontaneous erections. My energy was zapped. This all happened literally overnight. The anxiety went away eventually (24-36 hours), but everything else remained.

I've just switched back to IM shots starting yesterday, but could switching to subQ have actually caused this? Anyone else ever experienced this?

I did labs after the anxiety wore off, but still no libido at all and low energy. Still waiting for test numbers, but estradiol result came back and showed 21.6 which isn't bad I thought.

Vince · Apr 16, 2017

SubQ or IM shouldn't make a difference, I like my estradiol levels high, above 30. That's the sensitive estradiol test right, you're know more when you get labs. How long have you been on TRT?

Vince Carter · Apr 16, 2017

If thats the standard for females 21.6 you're E is probably too low, would typically be lower result. Do your labs for E show "LC/MS/MS" and/or what is the lab range shown?

JCUSN · Apr 16, 2017

Vince said:
SubQ or IM shouldn't make a difference, I like my estradiol levels high, above 30. That's the sensitive estradiol test right, you're know more when you get labs. How long have you been on TRT?

Vince Carter said:
If thats the standard for females 21.6 you're E is probably too low, would typically be lower result. Do your labs for E show "LC/MS/MS" and/or what is the lab range shown?

I've been on TRT since mid-January.

This test I got the result of 21.6 for wasn't the sensitive test. I had to go back the next day for the correct test, and I'm waiting on that result still.

I've also never taken an AI before.

If subQ shouldn't matter, why would this have happened just two weeks after going subQ? Seems like the only variable.

Vince · Apr 16, 2017

JCUSN said:
I've been on TRT since mid-January.

This test I got the result of 21.6 for wasn't the sensitive test. I had to go back the next day for the correct test, and I'm waiting on that result still.

I've also never taken an AI before.

If subQ shouldn't matter, why would this have happened just two weeks after going subQ? Seems like the only variable.

I've never used so low amount of T and HCG. My starting protocol was 70mg of T and 500iu of HCG every 3 1/2 days, No AI. I felt great and still do. We are all different. I know you are trying to get dialed in. Go very slow and take some time to review.

madman · Apr 16, 2017

JCUSN said:
Hello everyone.

I've been on 50mg Test C, twice per week IM and 200iu HCG M/W/F for about 10 weeks. I was experiencing very heightened libido, good strength gain and muscle gain, more energy...all the good stuff. However, I was getting a bit of acne along my hairline on back of my neck.

I read about subQ injections being even better, so decided to try them. For about two weeks or so, I felt the same. Then, I woke up one morning, and suddenly felt
panicked. I was worried. I was anxious. I was nervous. And there was no explanation. My libido disappeared. I wasn't getting any spontaneous erections. My energy was zapped. This all happened literally overnight. The anxiety went away eventually (24-36 hours), but everything else remained.

I've just switched back to IM shots starting yesterday, but could switching to subQ have actually caused this? Anyone else ever experienced this?

I did labs after the anxiety wore off, but still no libido at all and low energy. Still waiting for test numbers, but estradiol result came back and showed 21.6 which isn't bad I thought.

Switching from im to sub-q should make absolutely no difference as absorption should be the same. If anything as VC stated your estradiol may be low.

JCUSN · Apr 16, 2017

madman said:
Switching from im to sub-q should make absolutely no difference as absorption should be the same. If anything as VC stated your estradiol may be low.

What would cause my estradiol to suddenly go low when I've felt fine up until the subQ switch?

JCUSN · Apr 16, 2017

madman said:
Switching from im to sub-q should make absolutely no difference as absorption should be the same. If anything as VC stated your estradiol may be low.

And how does one raise estradiol?

James · Apr 17, 2017

Never been a big fan of sub q. Most of the major contributors to this site report a preference for a shallow IM. I've read the daily injection guys say they inject in several different spots. Likely more due to a desire for a variety of spots with a daily protocol, more than a preference from sub q. Seems sub q was the 'new thing' a couple years ago, but I don't hear near the talk about it anymore.

Vince · Apr 17, 2017

JCUSN said:
And how does one raise estradiol?

Supplementing with DHEA should raise your estradiol levels. I wouldn't change your protocol until you get a full set of labs. You need to know what's going on with all your levels.

Vince Carter · Apr 17, 2017

Some guys do infact claim an absorption difference with IM or SQ, an aromatase decrease, etc etc you may be one of the guys that really notices something like that. If you were doing something previously then consider going back to it, like shallow IM. SQ had A LOT more to do with use of smaller/shorter needles than anything else.

CSI007 · Apr 17, 2017

I am waiting on my latest labs since changing to EOD SQ from E3.5 SQ. My total and free T dropped and my E2 raised up about 10 weeks into my TRT. The only factor that changed during this time was the size of the needle that I used. I went from 1/2" 30 gauge to 5/16" 30 gauge. I stayed on the 5/16" up to this latest blood test but I did order 100 1/2" syringes and that is what I am now using. I have wondered if the length of the penetration from 1/2" down to 5/16" played a part in the reduction of T and the increase in E2. Perhaps I was more into the fat layer with the smaller gauge needle giving the injected T more time to convert to E2 before it hit the blood stream.

JCUSN · Apr 20, 2017

Well guys I've done two of my 50mg shots IM so far, and I'm already feeling SO MUCH better.

Also, I did a second Estradiol test the same day as my last. This second test was the "sensitive" type test because the first one was not and that was an error. It is interesting to not that this test showed a result of 20.6 estradiol...only 1.0 less than the "regular" test. I thought the sensitive test was supposed to be much better, but it appears the results were nearly identical.

I'm still waiting on my testosterone labs to come back to see if I was actually low from the subQ injections. I'll post the update once I know!

Vince · Apr 20, 2017

The results between the sensitive and the women's estradiol test varies for everyone, but you should always have the right sensitivity estradiol test.

JCUSN · Apr 21, 2017

Well everyone, my test results finally came back in.

Total Test: 589 ng/dL (range 348-1197)
Free Test: 10.0 (range 8.7-25.1)
Estradiol (sensitive): 20.6
SHBG: 37.8 ng/dL (range 16.5 - 55.9)

Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy	30	ng/mL
Vitamin D3, 25-Hydroxy	28	ng/mL
Vitamin D2, 25-Hydroxy	1.6	ng/mL

When I started TRT, I was at 484 total T with SHBG at a high 60.2. I'm 33 years old. Since I'm taking HCG and 100mg of Test C per week...should my total T be higher than these numbers above? These numbers were after a couple weeks of SubQ instead of my normal IM injections.

Thanks for your input, everyone!

Zooka15 · Apr 21, 2017

If your on twice a week injection your Total T is a little low. Most people do well around 800. This will also bring your E2 up a few points as well. Maybe talk to your Doc about doing 60MG twice weekly.

CoastWatcher · Apr 21, 2017

I'd think you'd do better with a total testosterone level somewhat higher - and with that your free testosterone should also improve. Both are on the low side.

JCUSN · Apr 21, 2017

I'm doing all injections IM now instead of continuing the subQ. I'm hoping this will bring my levels back up to normal, because I felt so much better back on my IM injections.

Neo187 · Aug 4, 2017

JCUSN said:
I'm doing all injections IM now instead of continuing the subQ. I'm hoping this will bring my levels back up to normal, because I felt so much better back on my IM injections.

Just curious if you had been feeling better since switching back to IM injections?

JCUSN · Aug 4, 2017

Hey! Thanks for checking in.

YES. My levels have gotten SO much higher and I feel a ton better. My levels nearly doubled after going back to IM.

SubQ: Lost the Positive Effects of IM

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