Low Dose test cyp

It appears you had the regular Quest Estradiol test but you need the Ultrasensitive test for TRT purposes.

hva,

Thank you. I didn't know. I thought the Quest Estradiol was the sensitive. Thanks for reviewing it. I had a BW draw yesterday and asked for SHBG and she said not needed based on TT, FT and Estrodial. That high T was indicative of low SHBG (or high FT, don't remember).

JDS,

Thank you. I do not know how to screen shot. I uploaded and thought that was it, but when I saw it, I was obviously wrong.

My wife said to go a head with one of the experts if my current doc isn't knowledgeable enough, so I might end up doing a consult with Defy. My Rx is only $49 and they gave me the needles for free, so that will be the con of going with Defy, but sense of mind is more valuable. Her labs are only $75 too.

JDS,

Forgot to add that I am doing 10 mg test cyp daily with insulin syringe and when I had blood drawn yesterday it was about 9:45 am and I inject around 10:30, so technically it was trough for a 24 hour period based on ED injection.

themud said:

JDS,

Forgot to add that I am doing 10 mg test cyp daily with insulin syringe and when I had blood drawn yesterday it was about 9:45 am and I inject around 10:30, so technically it was trough for a 24 hour period based on ED injection.

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That's real good.

Vince,

Looks like my doc did regular Estradiol test for the first BW (pre TRT), same for this last one (first BW after starting TRT). I know the sensitive should have been done, but wouldn't they be fairly consistent? Meaning the first one showed 25 (<39), wouldn't they be consistent as you get them going forward? or Do they bounce around so much that they defy reliability?

themud said:

Kids,

Sorry. I wrote a long post with all my numbers and for some reason it was blocked and disappeared in cyberland. I was leaving work and wanted to make a short synopsis of the long one. I did not mean to do random doses. I know 50 was low, but based on Dr Gordon's starts at 60-80, I wouldn't say it's ridiculously low.

I followed the prescription dose for 3 weeks and when I read that some were doing daily shots I decided to read up on it and the low dose that is similar to the gel/creams.

I will update with my numbers tomorrow. She did not do shbg, prolactin, dhea, dht so I don't know those base numbers.

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As much as I respect Dr Gordon for his work on the relationship of TBI and hormone dysfunction and vets, his TRT doses make little sense to me and yes, that's a low weekly dose that will not get anyone into the ranges usually desired with TRT. So far, have not read a satisfactory reason for the doses he uses with men diagnosed with hypo gonadism.

Known him for many moons but never had the op to bring that topic up with him.

lowe2sucks said:

Do you feel better or worse since you got your E2 down to 20?

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No, it's made no difference in symptoms. Other than the tingling nipple feeling.

Will -

But various guys may metabolize differently, correct? I appear to be one of those slow metabolizers. I cannot do even 100mg / week because my levels built up, and after about 4 weeks, I had a trough above 1100, and my estradiol hit 49. I'm at 80 mg/week now and my troughs still hits the mid 800's consistently.

To the original poster.
I would find a 1x week dose of T that gives you a decent and consistent trough reading. Then split that into 2 or 3 injections a week, as preferred.
From personal experience, the first couple months of TRT are often a bumpy ride, as your body is adjusting to the new hormonal balance. During that period you can't base your dosage on day by day feelings.

BTW You're starting too low.

themud said:

JDS,

Forgot to add that I am doing 10 mg test cyp daily with insulin syringe and when I had blood drawn yesterday it was about 9:45 am and I inject around 10:30, so technically it was trough for a 24 hour period based on ED injection.

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It's going to be interesting to see your labs at that low level of injections of testosterone. I can't see much gain from it, but time will tell.

Ok. I will start by saying I will have them email me the BW results. And I also asked her to do the SHBG, which she said wasn't needed. So, although I am a little frustrated by that and not having sensitive E2 test. Here is what my phone call went:

2nd BW 4/12/17
TT 1349 (250-1150)
FT 224
E2 50

She said she goes by ratios and wants them at 5% and said my E2 was too low for the TT. She also said TT too high for shots. If on pellets 1349 would be fine as it would get lower over the absorption period. Told me to cut back and not give myself a shot for 1 1/2 - 2 weeks as it accumulates and will keep getting higher. She also said based on the ratio to stop taking the DIM.

I was doing 10mg daily. If it has a half life of 7-8 days how could it keep going up? My calculations say it would level around 35-40 days.

Should I keep daily? or Lower it?

themud said:

Ok. I will start by saying I will have them email me the BW results. And I also asked her to do the SHBG, which she said wasn't needed. So, although I am a little frustrated by that and not having sensitive E2 test. Here is what my phone call went:

2nd BW 4/12/17
TT 1349 (250-1150)
FT 224
E2 50

She said she goes by ratios and wants them at 5% and said my E2 was too low for the TT. She also said TT too high for shots. If on pellets 1349 would be fine as it would get lower over the absorption period. Told me to cut back and not give myself a shot for 1 1/2 - 2 weeks as it accumulates and will keep getting higher. She also said based on the ratio to stop taking the DIM.

I was doing 10mg daily. If it has a half life of 7-8 days how could it keep going up? My calculations say it would level around 35-40 days.

Should I keep daily? or Lower it?

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I don't mean to laugh but that has to be up there for one of the most ridiculous statements by a Dr we've seen here.
You def do need to get SHBG and sens E2, you can find those at discountedlabs.com, though your numbers and very low daily dose of 10mg would tell me that you don't need to be on daily injections, your TT is very very high, knowing the lab range on the Free T would give us another indicator of where your SHBG is.

Unwillingness to order labs that are an essential part of designing a protocol, inaccurate statements about testosterone "accumulating" in your body...all point to a doctor who is winging this at your expense.

I am going to call Defy. From FT numbers, would you say my SHBG is high? Also, I did start to notice last week I was getting night wood, but it hasn't been consistent given only 5 days. I no longer have to use a constriction ring either. At 77 mg per week have you seen TT that high?

She does pellets, and I think she is taking Biote protocol and applying them to injections. Does it accumulate or does it drop and then start to even out? Is it possible that they were in the "accumulation" phase and should drop down again?

Testosterone doesn't "accumulate." Pellets, topicals, injections...it doesn't matter; as soon as it's implanted/applied/injected the half-life process starts. It's a different rate depending on various factors, typically the delivery mode and SHBG value. Now, with pellets, there's certainly a greater rise in total testosterone and a slower elimination, but there's no accumulation.

themud said:

I am going to call Defy. From FT numbers, would you say my SHBG is high? Also, I did start to notice last week I was getting night wood, but it hasn't been consistent given only 5 days. I no longer have to use a constriction ring either. At 77 mg per week have you seen TT that high?

She does pellets, and I think she is taking Biote protocol and applying them to injections. Does it accumulate or does it drop and then start to even out? Is it possible that they were in the "accumulation" phase and should drop down again?

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KNowing what the lab range is/was will be a clue, please post that when you can.

I have 100mg/ml vial and 29 slim needles at 50 units or less. I have been drawing to the 10. Have I been doing 20mg on accident?

Do you have .5ml or 1ml syringes?

.5ml

test vial says 100mg/ml

Youre doing it right then. 50 units on your syringe would be 50mg, 25 would be 25mg and so on. Drawing it to 10 would be 10mg. I prefer the 200mg/ml vial so I can inject less, I inject 40mg 3x a week so I draw to 20 on my pin.