Im vs. Subq?

I read this in another thread. I'm using the im method as shown by my dr. Is this worth doing at all? Thanks.

"I changed from IM to SUBQ shots to not elevate my e2 too high and have a more even release of T into my body."

An old, never ending discussion. Some men claim that IM will hold their estradiol in check, and they have labs to back them up. Others claim a SubQ injection does that, and they have labs that back them up. I have used both methods and have labs that show absolutely no difference.

SubQ is a martter of personal comfort as much as it is anything. I use, more and more of us are using, an insulin needle and it becomes a shallow IM injection. You can try it yourself and see.

I just tried a 25gauge insulin syringe, it comes out real slow, and sometimes nothing will come out at all. I rub the vial to warm it up first and inject the same amount of air in. Is there a way to get it to flow easier?

It will seem that it is moving slow but it should not take too long to fill an insulin syringe which are usually 27/28/29/30/31 gauge. I use a 28 gauge 1/2 inch and Delatestryl or Depo-Test flow easily. As long as the oil is room temperature and not cold. Sometimes when holding the vial upside down with needle through neoprene stopper as oil is starting to flow you may get some tiny air bubbles building up at the front end of the syringe just flick lightly and you should see it start flowing easier.

I like using an Easy Touch 27g 1/2" syringe of both HCG and testosterone. For me, it's works great for shallow IM.

SubQ only enabled the use of these much smaller needles, anything else is just rather subjective as far as aromatase or absorption. When using the very common 29g, yes they fill slow, hang the vial or prop it up wherever you can and allow it to fill, will take several minutes or more based on your dose. Yes hard to inject, to, so warming it does help. Run it under hot water, I've seen some steroid (ab)users do that.

I use 29g, .5ml, 1/2" syringe for T Cyp and 31g, .5ml, 5/16 for HCG. Load times are a little slow with T but inject times are fine (for me) and of course hcg is a snap.

I think Dr. Saya pointed it out one time, that is not the subq method that is lowering or evening out the e2. Rather when people do subq they are doing more frequent smaller injections.

Zooka15 said:

I think Dr. Saya pointed it out one time, that is not the subq method that is lowering or evening out the e2. Rather when people do subq they are doing more frequent smaller injections.

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I'm using shallow IM for my daily injections of testosterone.

sting said:

I just tried a 25gauge insulin syringe, it comes out real slow, and sometimes nothing will come out at all. I rub the vial to warm it up first and inject the same amount of air in. Is there a way to get it to flow easier?

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People use 28-30g all the time, so 25g will always work. Just takes a slow steady push and some decent finger strength. Running the vile (but not the needle!) under hot water for 10-20 seconds can help also

Shallow IM or sub Q is fine, important part is stick with one or the other. Data is not deep enough to recommend sub Q over IM per se, but does show sub Q works fine as an alternative.

- Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

No problems here with a 30 gauge insulin syringe. Takes no more then 20 seconds to push. Filling takes about 30 seconds to a minute.

I have read before that 80mg. Test subq. is equivalent to 100mg. IM. Anyone know of this to be credible?

sting said:

I have read before that 80mg. Test subq. is equivalent to 100mg. IM. Anyone know of this to be credible?

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NO but the system made me type more of reply

100mg is 100mg

CSI007 said:

100mg is 100mg

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But does it get absorbed more efficiently?

sting said:

I have read before that 80mg. Test subq. is equivalent to 100mg. IM. Anyone know of this to be credible?

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Dr. Crisler states this in his book and I find him credible. Of course YMMV and only labs will tell if this is the case for you.

sting said:

But does it get absorbed more efficiently?

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End of the day it's irrelevant. More Efficiently no, different yes. Per usual, IM or sub Q, doses to get optimal levels with differ, so it's a moot issue really.

sting said:

I have read before that 80mg. Test subq. is equivalent to 100mg. IM. Anyone know of this to be credible?

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Absolutely not.

HarryCat said:

Dr. Crisler states this in his book and I find him credible. Of course YMMV and only labs will tell if this is the case for you.

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I respect Dr. Crisler a great deal, any man who is now on a TRT protocol owes him their thanks, but it stretches the imagination, at least it stretches my imagination, to think that this would work for one and all. If you are curious, follow HarryCat's suggestion: test, reduce your your dose for six weeks, and test again.

CSI007 said:

No problems here with a 30 gauge insulin syringe. Takes no more then 20 seconds to push. Filling takes about 30 seconds to a minute.

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I use a 27ga 1/2" insulin syringe and I find it takes about 15 seconds to load .5 ml and about the same to inject. That's with T-Cyp at room temperature. I haven't yet tried warming it up, but 30 seconds to draw and inject is no big deal to me.