What is the Lowest Dose Protocol That You Find Works Long Term?

[Novaman]

I'm close to giving up.

In my continued quest to get "dialed in" over my 4+ years on TRT, I'm finally down to few final options before I throw in the towel

Through trial and error over time I've found that HCG, AI, and other supplements that docs have put me on make me feel horrible, and higher doses of Test Cyp (140 mg a week split in 2 doses) causes my hematocrit to rise to levels that causes concern for my doc, elevated heart rates, and causes sleep issues.

I'm trying Test Cyp doses of 120 mg a week split in 2, and that seems to keep the hematocrit from rising, but I still get elevated heart rates and also sleep issues.

I've been trying my altered protocols after clearing my system for 1-2 weeks and find that my issues develop after a 1.5 to 2 weeks. Is this because I need to let my levels stabilize first?

Anyone happy on doses below 120 mg a week? At this point I think that is all I have left to try.

 

[Vince Carter]

There's a more than a few guys around here on <100mg/D, like ~14-16mg/D.

 

[wondering]

try T cream?

 

[Vince]

try T cream?

I would have to agree, it may be the way to go.

Scrotal Testosterone Cream: Can it Increase Libido?

 

[fifty]

We have 5+ guys who recently switched to cream/gel. I haven’t seen many great updates yet maybe 1 of 6?

 

[Cataceous]

I've done well with 18 mg EOD T enanthate, which is 63 mg per week—equivalent to 65 mg T cypionate. This puts serum testosterone at around 800 ng/dL. What kind of serum levels are you getting and with what SHBG? Chances are you can successfully lower your dose at least until your free testosterone goes to average or below.

 

[Systemlord]

Your SHBG levels are a big piece of the puzzle. Also after changing dosages levels are in flux for at least 6 weeks and symptoms will come and go, this is normal and expected.

My hematocrit is lowest on daily protocols and am able to get away with a 30% or more dosage reduction when compared with other protocols.

 

[Novaman]

Thanks for the responses. I’ve decided to quit. I’ve had too many bad days on TRT. This last attempt was with a Defy doc. I gave his protocol a shot and have had 6 horrible weeks.

I’ve narrowed down the issue to elevated heart rate and sleep quality. The 2 are interconnected and when my resting heart rate climbs from a normal of 77 to anything over 83, my sleep quality goes in the crapper. Yesterday I skipped an injection and last night I slept like a baby for the first time in a while.

I don’t know what else to try, but I’m tired of feeling crappy while trying to find what works

 

[Hammer]

I'm close to giving up.

In my continued quest to get "dialed in" over my 4+ years on TRT, I'm finally down to few final options before I throw in the towel

Through trial and error over time I've found that HCG, AI, and other supplements that docs have put me on make me feel horrible, and higher doses of Test Cyp (140 mg a week split in 2 doses) causes my hematocrit to rise to levels that causes concern for my doc, elevated heart rates, and causes sleep issues.

I'm trying Test Cyp doses of 120 mg a week split in 2, and that seems to keep the hematocrit from rising, but I still get elevated heart rates and also sleep issues.

I've been trying my altered protocols after clearing my system for 1-2 weeks and find that my issues develop after a 1.5 to 2 weeks. Is this because I need to let my levels stabilize first?

Anyone happy on doses below 120 mg a week? At this point I think that is all I have left to try.

 

[Hammer]

I've adjusted my dosage over the last ten years from 100mg of testosterone cypianate per week which yielded total T values of 1200+ to my current dosage of 60mg per week split into two pins. My total T on injection days is 750 - 800. I feel great but not quite as strong in the gym as when my test is above 1000. I lowered my dosage to help reduce hematocrit as it still rises to around the 51% despite blood donations every two months. I discontinued any HCG and AI despite being slightly over the range max (41). The HCG was a cost issue and further drove my hematocrit levels. What are your T levels if taking 140mg/wk. Maybe a lower dosage would resolve your issues if you can maintain a decent testosterone profile at lower dosages.

 

[mooseman109]

I am 10 mg daily and it keeps my total T in 700-800 and free t in low 20's and I feel good. I have to donate 3-4 times a year

 

[Novaman]

Ok. Maybe stop trying? YOU linked your sleep and pulse issues to TRT. You seem to not even entertain the theory that you could be wrong.
The whole thread title is flawed. There’s no medical reason or even a reason otherwise to suspect the lowest dose that “works” is best

I think you’ve learned too many things that aren’t true to ever be successful.
It sounds like you barely give a protocol a chance.

Not sure wtf that 2nd to last paragraph means, but it sure sounds like you are doing super weird things like coming off TRT, back on, then making changes a few weeks in.

start a protocol that many have been successful in. Leave it alone! Stop assuming side effects are related or permanent. Keep and open mind and wait. Skip the ai completely.

Thanks for the response.

I've been trying to get dialed in for 4+ years. I actually went off TRT 15 months ago for 3 months but went back on because I truly want it to work and I know I hadn't exhausted all protocol options.

I have been under a Dr's care the entire time I've been on treatment and have been put on "standard prevailing" protocols, which the docs have been altering over time to try and get me dialed in. It can be a challenge to give things time to see if symptoms stabilize, because you can spend your entire time waiting for something that never comes.

By "altered Protocols" I meant that rather than take everything the doc threw out at me at once (he put me on Test Cyp, AI, HCG, DHEA, and Lyothyronine), I decided it would be wiser to add in one drug at a time and see how it effects me.

I do know the medical literature supports the notion that TRT does increase resting heart rates, and I also know that the medical literature supports the notion that sleep quality and heart rate (and/or the amount of change in the heart rate) are interconnected.

 

[HealthMan]

100mg week (50mg EOD). Total T low 700 Free T low mid 20s at trough. At this dosage i dont need to donate. Any higher and HCT creeps up

 

[Novaman]

Here are my test results taken 24 hours after injecting 60 mg Test Cyp. No HCG no AI when this was drawn.

It was after this draw that Defy decided to put me on the DHEA, Lyothyronine, AI, HCG, Test Cyp.

 

[D007Domo]

Have you tried any protocol with more than 2 injections per week? Some guys even do daily...this will keep things more stable and also leave you injecting less at one time...among other things.

Also, as someone else mentioned, try a cream?

 

[Blackhawk]

I've been trying my altered protocols after clearing my system for 1-2 weeks and find that my issues develop after a 1.5 to 2 weeks. Is this because I need to let my levels stabilize first?

Anyone happy on doses below 120 mg a week? At this point I think that is all I have left to try.

Yes and yes.

Over close to 2 years, I have gone through repeated dosage reductions and have gone below what seems the minimum effective dose for me.

I have been through high HCT/HGB and E2, and slightly elevated E2 is an ongoing problem that I have to manage with micro dosed AI.

It takes 2-3 months for me to fully adjust to reductions, and getting to that kind of end point can be an exercise in abject misery. At a few weeks out, the withdrawl is at its worst for me. Due to the half life of T cyp, the typical theoretical amount of time it takes to reach a new steady state is 4-6 weeks, but for me, the body itself takes much longer to adapt.

My lowest effective dose is 84mg/week dosed 24mg EOD. I do use HCG 200iu EOD and anastrozole 0.06mg EOD.

 

[Golfboy307]

Yes, right now I am having better results on 30mg every 2.5 days, so about 80-90 mg/wk total T Cyp. That keeps my at 800-900 with very little E2 spikes. I was previously doing 1x week, then every 5 days.

 

[Novaman]

Yes, right now I am having better results on 30mg every 2.5 days, so about 80-90 mg/wk total T Cyp. That keeps my at 800-900 with very little E2 spikes. I was previously doing 1x week, then every 5 days.

Thanks. Do you use anything else with that?

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

I did well at about 80-90 per week via 2 injections, and now I'm doing even better after adding in cream, however that is with DHEA and various other supps and activities

 

[Golfboy307]

Nova: I am not using an AI or HCG if that is your question. I have found that as long as my T doesn't go above 1000 I really haven't needed those added. I am on several vitamins and NO boosting supplements, but those are not necessarily hormone related.