What external factors affect levels while on trt?

[RickB]

I have bloodwork coming up, and I want to confirm something. As far as I understand, nothing should affect my total. Sleep, sex, exercise, etc. should not come into play. I just want to confirm that, because I still come across a post here and there where someone will point to one of these factors or others (fasting or not, time of blood-drawing, etc.) and suggest it is responsible for a number being high or low.

I want to go into this testing not worrying about whether I slept enough or whether I ate too much or anything like that. Can anyone shed some light on whether there's anything I have to concern myself with in order to get the most accurate reading?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

The timing of your labs in relation to when you administer testosterone is the only external factor to be concerned with as far as I'm aware. The traditional advice about factors influencing testosterone level no longer applies on TRT.

 

[tareload]

Avoid using one of these on your injection site (joking) otherwise you should be good unless you are taking other meds that affect SHBG. Then your TT dose response will be skewed.

Intramuscular vs SubQutaneous Injections for Testosterone

Use for 10 min over site of injection. 256% effectiveness boost. 2nd device looks perfect for VG/DG.

forums.t-nation.com

What is your plan for injection vs blood test timing? Then we can help with what you are trying to measure...peak/trough/mean, etc.

 

[RickB]

Avoid using one of these on your injection site (joking) otherwise you should be good unless you are taking other meds that affect SHBG. Then your TT dose response will be skewed.

Intramuscular vs SubQutaneous Injections for Testosterone

Use for 10 min over site of injection. 256% effectiveness boost. 2nd device looks perfect for VG/DG.

forums.t-nation.com

What is your plan for injection vs blood test timing? Then we can help with what you are trying to measure...peak/trough/mean, etc.

Yeah, it seems that SHBG, and therefore free T, is one thing that can be affected by external factors while on trt. I think the only thing I consume that can affect free T is a good amount of flaxseed meal. I'm assuming the effects are chronic rather than acute, so I'm interested in seeing where my free sits with all my fiber consumption.

On 7/14 I took my last shot of 85 mg that I'd been taking E3.5D for a couple months. On 7/21 I took my first shot of 170mg E7D. On both protocols I've taken 6.25 asin E3.5D.

I'll be getting standard total, free, and E2 drawn 21 hours before next pin, and then equilibrium ultrafiltration and estradiol sensitive drawn 19 hours before next pin. So I'm not at absolute trough, but since my numbers have been high rather than low, it's fine.

 

[tareload]

, it seems that SHBG, and therefore free T, is

Actually SHBG and therefore TT

FT would only be affected if you could influence your FT elimination rate which probably ain't easy to influence with usual suspects.

Taking some oxandrolone or danazol a few days before testing could easily drop your SHBG and hence TT.

 

[RickB]

Actually SHBG and therefore TT

FT would only be affected if you could influence your FT elimination rate which probably ain't easy to influence with usual suspects.

Taking some oxandrolone or danazol a few days before testing could easily drop your SHBG and hence TT.

I went on trt due to high shbg causing low free. Looks like you and I are on different ends of the shbg conundrum.

 

[Belekas]

I went on trt due to high shbg causing low free. Looks like you and I are on different ends of the shbg conundrum.

Same here. High, above range SHBG and below range FT.

 

[tareload]

I went on trt due to high shbg causing low free. Looks like you and I are on different ends of the shbg conundrum.

Your post, which I commented on, was in regard to use of exogenous T; not why you went on TRT.

You now have a knob to control your fT...you can adjust your dose. TT is then a function of your fT and SHBG.

Hence, think of it as

TT = f(fT, SHBG)

NOT

fT = f(TT, SHBG)

 

[FunkOdyssey]

You now have a knob to control your fT...you can adjust your dose. TT is then a function of your fT and SHBG.

Doctor: "So what brings you in to see me today?"

Patient: "I'd like a knob to control my free testosterone."

 

[tareload]

Doctor: "So what brings you in to see me today?"

Patient: "I'd like a knob to control my free testosterone."

Isn't that what you told your Provider? I think I said something like "Doctor i would like to test the hypothesis that ....blah blah blah."

 

[RickB]

Your post, which I commented on, was in regard to use of exogenous T; not why you went on TRT.

You now have a knob to control your fT...you can adjust your dose. TT is then a function of your fT and SHBG.

Hence, think of it as

TT = f(fT, SHBG)

NOT

fT = f(TT, SHBG)

Fiber raises shbg, in turn lowering free test, regardless of whether your T is endo or exo.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Fiber raises shbg, in turn lowering free test, regardless of whether your T is endo or exo.

Allow me to introduce you to the Sponge Theory of SHBG:

SHBG cause or consequence of hypogonadism?

Dear all, I'm pretty amazed by this website and the quality of all the discussions in that forum. I recently did some tests because I had the feeling that something was wrong with my T level, and also because I had a shock down there while doing sport a few months ago. My result is 720 ng/dL...

www.excelmale.com

Think of production as equaling free testosterone. At steady state the amount of SHBG is basically irrelevant. Someone recently suggested a sponge analogy: SHBG is likened to a sponge, with testosterone being the water. Testosterone—water—is dripped onto the sponge. This represents production. When the sponge is saturated the testosterone drips off the bottom of the sponge—this represents free testosterone being used. At steady state the flow of testosterone leaving the sponge equals the production entering the sponge. You can double the size of the sponge—the amount of SHBG—which temporarily reduces the flow, but the sponge soon saturates again so that outflow again equals inflow. A larger sponge means more total testosterone is contained within the sponge. But that testosterone within the sponge isn't doing much of anything, and so is largely irrelevant. For the sake of simplicity this ignores the possible benefits in having testosterone buffered this way.

A little more detail on the transient effect: Think of the body as regulating production to attain its desired outflow. If you could instantly enlarge the sponge—increase SHBG—then the body detects the reduced outflow and increases production. But the sponge soon saturates and outflow even goes too high, leading to reduced production. There could even be damped oscillations. But over time the flow rates return to where they started.

 

[bixt]

Back to the original question. The OP mentioned exercise.

So lets say one injects quads, and then runs a lot. Could this cause a faster displacement into systemic circulation of the T stored in the depot (from the mechanical action)? Taller spike with shorter half life. AUC remaining as is.

 

[tareload]

Back to the original question. The OP mentioned exercise.

So lets say one injects quads, and then runs a lot. Could this cause a faster displacement into systemic circulation of the T stored in the depot (from the mechanical action)? Taller spike with shorter half life. AUC remaining as is.

This paper has been discussed on here and elsewhere many times:

Europe PMC

Europe PMC is an archive of life sciences journal literature.

europepmc.org

Lymphatic activity / flow appears quite relevant. How much intense plyometrics could influence is a great question.

 

[tareload]

Allow me to introduce you to the Sponge Theory of SHBG:

SHBG cause or consequence of hypogonadism?

Dear all, I'm pretty amazed by this website and the quality of all the discussions in that forum. I recently did some tests because I had the feeling that something was wrong with my T level, and also because I had a shock down there while doing sport a few months ago. My result is 720 ng/dL...

www.excelmale.com

View attachment 24584

Excellent work. Good point the Technical Team has somewhat neglected guidance and input from the Sales and Marketing group. We definitely need a catchy name and infographics. Way to go.

 

[tareload]

Excellent work. Good point the Technical Team has somewhat neglected guidance and input from the Sales and Marketing group. We definitely need a catchy name and infographics. Way to go.

That's it. When these two are spouting off the same tired stuff you would hear from your local client care rep at the Ole T Mill you know guys are in trouble. Thanks again @Cataceous for your tireless effort on the fT/TT/SHBG relationships.

Most stuck in this TT+SHBG ---> fT paradigm

Move on to the fT+SHBG ----> TT paradigm

#fT_is_the_independent_variable

Frankly I am disappointed in Peter. Haven't watched much of the other dude but for Peter this makes me sad. He spends pages and pages on cholesterol transport but these two can't bring @Cataceous on for a primer?

I am going to have to do another experiment with +/- oxandrolone now and fT via Labcorp ED to put this to bed (at least for exogenous T case). Good thing harmonized fT methods are almost here @madman .

Also Peter mentions nothing about oxandrolone lowering the SHBG. Oxandrolone has no affinity for SHBG. Come on Bro!

And if there is a ExcelMale convention this year we should have best new male talent award. Share the award between our co-winners @FunkOdyssey and @BigTex (my vote).