What exactly is "clean eating"

[DragonBits]

I see a lot of men state they eat incredibly clean, or variations of that.

I know I don't eat clean, but I am not sure how unclean I am.

I don't have what I think of as a typical diet, meaning I can't say what I am going to eat day to day. It varies too much.

My wife is Thai, she makes Thai food, she doesn't eat beef or drink alcohol, while I do, my mother lives with us, she is 91 and likes deserts and bread, I pretty much can eat anything.

For instance, I like tacos make them at home, and changed from beef tacos to pork tacos, with all the spice I add its a little hard to detect a difference in taste. I accidentally made a pork hamburger, right away I could tell the taste difference.

I make ham and egg sandwiches on white bread, keep them for breakfast, that seems half clean but white bread and extra lean ham I don't think count as clean. Usually I try to eat an apple with that, it keeps me fuller longer.

I love pizza, white castle hamburgers, macaroni with butter, whole fish, rack of ribs, lot's of Thai dishes usually with Jasmine rice. Thai dishes tend to have a lot of veggies, not as much protein as USA dishes as it is cut up into the dish.

Love chili con queso with marguerites, not sure if cheese is clean or not.

I do tend to eat skinless chicken breasts, but I coat them with rice flour and fry them.

I used to enjoy a typical high carb House of pancakes breakfast, pancakes & syrup, eggs, hash browns, bacon, but the last 10 years or so all that sugar makes me a little nauseous. So I tend to avoid that sort of breakfast.

But I still like hash browns with eggs, but nothing additional outside of coffee.

Pizza really spikes my blood glucose the most, though it gets to 177 which is too high but not crazy high.

Tonight I am thinking either a hamburger or strawberry chicken salad. I use some sort of bread on a hamburger, but nothing else outside of mustard.

Reason I am thinking more about this, I am out to lose weight and bring my blood glucose down. My recent A1C was 5.8% and fasting BG was 109. Fasting BG has always bounced +/- 10 from 100, but this is the highest my A1C has ever been, typically A1C had been between 5.4-5.6%. I am making the assumption if I lose 15 lbs, my BG will go back down.

I have lost about 6 lbs down to 163 lbs, 5.4 and 66 years old. Maybe put on 2 lbs of muscle, so 8 lbs of fat.

What sort of food do people who eat clean typically eat?

And are ribs, hash browns, extra lean ham, lean fried skinless chicken breasts clean?

 

[Vince Carter]

Less processed is what comes to mind.

 

[DragonBits]

Less processed is what comes to mind.

I guess then baby back ribs are clean, since I don't think they are processed outside of butchering. Though you do cook them, which is a type of processing.

Lean packaged ham I think is cured.

I have eating steak tartare, but at the time I didn't really enjoy it, maybe I will give it another try.

 

[Renman23]

Clean eating is in essence a diet — just a way of eating. But it is also a way of living that lends itself to improving one's health and well-being.

Clean eating involves a few key principles that align with basic principles of healthy eating:

• Eat more real foods. Sound familiar? One of the tenets of the Mayo Clinic Diet is eating more real foods and fewer processed or refined foods. Convenience food is OK, sometimes even necessary, just make sure that what's in that can or package is the real thing with few other ingredients.
• Eat for nourishment. Eat regular, balanced meals and healthy snacks that are nourishing and not too rushed. Eat at home more often and prepare food in healthy ways. Pack food to eat away from home when on the road, at work or at activities. When you do eat out, choose wisely.
• Eat more plant-based foods. Ramp up on plants by eating more plant-based proteins, such as beans, lentils and peas, and high-protein whole grains, like quinoa, barley and buckwheat.
• Clean up your act. Adopt a cleaner lifestyle by getting plenty of physical activity during the day, getting enough sleep at night and managing stress in healthy ways. Connect with people you enjoy — talk, laugh, share a meal, go for a walk, or play a game.

With
Katherine Zeratsky, R.D., L.D.

 

[Vince]

Eating clean is different for everyone. Some people it means no sugar, for me it's low carb with lots of good non-starchy vegetables, others a clean vegetarian diet. I use a Clean Diet as just a general term for eating better.

 

[Nashtide]

No fast food
No junk food
No processed food
That's hardcore, but you get the idea.

 

[davidrn]

Simpler answer, don't eat anything your great grandmother would not recognize.

 

[DragonBits]

Simpler answer, don't eat anything your great grandmother would not recognize.

So bacon and lard is in, creatine and whey protein is out?

The word pizza was first documented in AD 997 in Gaeta[3] and successively in different parts of Central and Southern Italy. Pizza was mainly eaten in the country of Italy and by emigrants from there. This changed after World War II, when Allied troops stationed in Italy came to enjoy pizza along with other Italian foods.

History of pizza - Wikipedia

Thank god pizza is still in.

 

[davidrn]

Yes to lard & bacon (which is , or should be, one of the food groups), I don't think supplements are actually considered part of a diet. Hence the word : supplement.

 

[DragonBits]

I think protein powder is more of a food than a supplement. But you can go either way.

 

[Vince]

My great grandpa would every morning eat a bacon sandwich for breakfast, he lived till his 90s.

 

[dnfuss]

I see a lot of men state they eat incredibly clean, or variations of that.

I know I don't eat clean, but I am not sure how unclean I am.

I don't have what I think of as a typical diet, meaning I can't say what I am going to eat day to day. It varies too much.

My wife is Thai, she makes Thai food, she doesn't eat beef or drink alcohol, while I do, my mother lives with us, she is 91 and likes deserts and bread, I pretty much can eat anything.

For instance, I like tacos make them at home, and changed from beef tacos to pork tacos, with all the spice I add its a little hard to detect a difference in taste. I accidentally made a pork hamburger, right away I could tell the taste difference.

I make ham and egg sandwiches on white bread, keep them for breakfast, that seems half clean but white bread and extra lean ham I don't think count as clean. Usually I try to eat an apple with that, it keeps me fuller longer.

I love pizza, white castle hamburgers, macaroni with butter, whole fish, rack of ribs, lot's of Thai dishes usually with Jasmine rice. Thai dishes tend to have a lot of veggies, not as much protein as USA dishes as it is cut up into the dish.

Love chili con queso with marguerites, not sure if cheese is clean or not.

I do tend to eat skinless chicken breasts, but I coat them with rice flour and fry them.

I used to enjoy a typical high carb House of pancakes breakfast, pancakes & syrup, eggs, hash browns, bacon, but the last 10 years or so all that sugar makes me a little nauseous. So I tend to avoid that sort of breakfast.

But I still like hash browns with eggs, but nothing additional outside of coffee.

Pizza really spikes my blood glucose the most, though it gets to 177 which is too high but not crazy high.

Tonight I am thinking either a hamburger or strawberry chicken salad. I use some sort of bread on a hamburger, but nothing else outside of mustard.

Reason I am thinking more about this, I am out to lose weight and bring my blood glucose down. My recent A1C was 5.8% and fasting BG was 109. Fasting BG has always bounced +/- 10 from 100, but this is the highest my A1C has ever been, typically A1C had been between 5.4-5.6%. I am making the assumption if I lose 15 lbs, my BG will go back down.

I have lost about 6 lbs down to 163 lbs, 5.4 and 66 years old. Maybe put on 2 lbs of muscle, so 8 lbs of fat.

What sort of food do people who eat clean typically eat?

And are ribs, hash browns, extra lean ham, lean fried skinless chicken breasts clean?

Are you on any medications for your diabetes?

 

[BenM]

There really isn’t a definition of ‘clean eating’ - it’s in the eye of the beholder, but generally as noted above it means a very low proportion of processed foods, and a very high proportion of fresh fruit, vegetables and lean meats. I’d also say it typically would involve simple/healthy preparation methods - think steaming, baking and sautéing; no deep frying, etc.

I tend to eat this way most of the time, but I don’t think it’s any better than any other diet, and it has its downsides like anything restrictive. I eat a LOT of salads, plain vegetables, lean meat and low fat dairy.

I would say ribs, ham, cheese and chicken breast are fine. Hash browns maybe not so much, but you gotta live your life. And crunchy hash browns are delicious, if a little high in fat for the way I eat.

Tonight for dinner I had a baked fillet of barramundi, a baked potato, some coleslaw (mixed with fresh kraut instead of dressing), cherry tomatoes, baked asparagus and salad greens, with mustard. Was bloody good.

 

[DragonBits]

Are you on any medications for your diabetes?

Well, I am not a diabetic, so I am not even sure what meds a doctor would prescribe for a non-diabetic who tested in the pre-diabetic area?

However, my grandmother, several aunts and uncles are diabetics, so I test for this all the time.

The blood test you quoted that I was talking about was Sept 9th, it was the first time my A1C veered into pre-diabetic area, which really surprised me, multiple times in the past A1C was 5.3% - 5.6%. It’s as though TRT pushed me over the edge, though that doesn’t make sense.

I got a blood glucose meter on Sept 20th, $45 with 200 strips. My blood glucose really seems to jump around a lot. I must have stuck myself 100 times already just to see what happens at various times.

I was thinking about taking metformin, it seems useful for glycemic control and has other benefits. However, I think I can lower my A1C/ fasting blood glucose with diet and losing weight. I was hoping a little diet and losing weight will being fasting BG solidly under 100, and A1C to ~5.4%. Exercise I am not so sure about as I already do a lot of exercise. But I could take a walk after a meal.

I make small efforts to control my eating, but certainly not in any strict manner. Mostly just to avoid too many calories.

I had classic French onion soup and a crepe filled with sweet red chili pork belly & avocado for lunch on Friday, on Sat a hot dog for brunch and Italian beef sandwich W/a few French fries for dinner on Sat. Both with water as a drink.

If I haven’t gotten a full night’s sleep, a meal like the crepe will make my very sleepy and a nap very easy to take. My BG went to 156 after the hot dog but 145 after the Italian beef but only 147 after the crepe lunch. Of course time of testing postprandial varies a little.

I had thought biking would being BG way down, but it actually went up a little to 115 after 2 hours of biking. But 45 min of walking got it down to 93. I surmise lite exercise is better than a lot of cardio. 15 minutes of dumbbell squat curl and press was pretty effective at lowering BG. I was using 25 lb dumbbells.

I did intend to use metformin, mostly because that seems like a useful drug beyond it’s benefit for glucose control. And the longer I am on TRT, the more likely BG will come down, at least I hope so.

I started the thread because it seemed like clean eating sounds good, but everyone seems to have a different idea of what that meant, I was curious about the specifics.

Next time I get an A1C test, I will update the thread.

 

[davidrn]

Before you consider an actual prescription med like Metformin, let me make 2 suggestions. Cinnamon is great for reducing blood sugar, unfortunately, it is not like many other spices, and there is a limit on foods to use it with. Oatmeal is an excellent breakfast choice for sugar and cholesterol. in addition to oatmeal, I add cinnamon to hot chocolate.
The other choice for a supplement is Berberine, some studies have suggested that it is as effective as Metformin . I convinced a gym buddy with metabolic syndrome to introduce Berberine into his health plan, his PCP asked what he did different because his A1c came down slightly. I would try these 2 additions to your health care plan, and then after 2 months retest the A1c level. Also, drop as much white flour foods as possible. I eat pancakes myself a few times a month, but I keep it gluten free by using Coconut flour, Buck Wheat, and Sorghum (this also helps increase DHT).

 

[deBooza]

Clean eating, as also expressed above, is very personal.

I always apply the rule "if you can't eat it raw then don't". Which
I got from reading the book Neanderthin.

Turns me into 'man mode'.

Hard to stick to. I do it 10 weeks at a time then a month off, don't
go mad just let loose a little.

I think the main thing is STAY CLEAR OF PROCESSED/ADDED SUGAR!

 

[dnfuss]

Cinnamon is great for reducing blood sugar

While you will find many statements on the internet to the contrary, cinnamon has never been demonstrated to have any ability whatsoever to lower blood sugar.

Oatmeal is an excellent breakfast choice for sugar and cholesterol.

Oatmeal is a terrible choice for diabetics. It will raise blood sugars in them dramatically.

The other choice for a supplement is Berberine

There are no magic solutions to reducing blood sugars.

Berberine is not something to fool around with. It does seem to work to some degree, but it may do so by affecting your liver in potentially dangerous ways. It has not undergone the rigorous testing process to which all FDA-approved prescription drugs are subjected, much less evaluated for adverse side effects after years of prescribed use (see, e.g., sulfonylurea drugs (increased likelihood of heart attack), the incretin drugs (can damage the pancreas), and Avandia and Actos (can cause severe osteoporosis)). The near-unanimous view of responsible clinicians, which I share, is that berberine currently should not be prescribed for the treatment of diabetes or pre-diabetes.

 

[dnfuss]

Well, I am not a diabetic

DragonBits, no one can diagnose you without taking a history, examining you, running the proper labs, etc. But I will say that, in general, I would expect that a patient who presents with a consistent fasting glucose of 100-110 mg/dl and routine post-prandial glucoses of 145, 156, 177, etc. is diabetic, perhaps mildly so, perhaps not.

my grandmother, several aunts and uncles are diabetics

Diabetes has a strong genetic component, so this would not be unexpected.

The blood test you quoted that I was talking about was Sept 9th, it was the first time my A1C veered into pre-diabetic area, which really surprised me, multiple times in the past A1C was 5.3% - 5.6%.

An HgbA1c of 5.8% (even by the ADA's reckoning, which probably underestimates) is equivalent to an estimated average glucose (eag) of 120 mg/dl. Even an HgbA1c of 5.6% would be equivalent to an eag of 114 mg/dl. These are not the blood sugars of a non-diabetic. But you really can't rely on the HgbA1c test as a diagnostic tool. Even the ADA said it wasn't useful for diagnosing diabetes for many years. They've only changed course because primary doctors just weren't administering very many oral glucose tolerance tests (take too much time in an era of five-minute office visits). HgbA1c is a useful measure of general trends. I have it run myself. But it can't be used to rule out diabetes.

I got a blood glucose meter on Sept 20th, $45 with 200 strips.

I hope it's an accurate meter. Most aren't. The Freestyle Freedom Lite meter (that’s the one I use) and Freestyle Lite meter (slightly smaller), both from Abbott Laboratories, are highly accurate and recommended by noted diabetologist Dr. Richard Bernstein (they're the only ones he's found to be tolerably accurate at near-normal blood sugar levels).

My blood glucose really seems to jump around a lot.

That is indicative of poor blood sugar control and is typical in diabetes.

My BG went to 156 after the hot dog but 145 after the Italian beef but only 147 after the crepe lunch. Of course time of testing postprandial varies a little.

Numbers like these one hour after eating would be likely indicators of diabetes. They are not the numbers seen in healthy non-diabetics. If they were taken two hours or more after eating, they are almost certain indicators of diabetes.

I had thought biking would being BG way down, but it actually went up a little to 115 after 2 hours of biking. But 45 min of walking got it down to 93. I surmise lite exercise is better than a lot of cardio.

These sorts of reactions to exercise are typical in diabetes. Hepatic glucose production rises with vigorous exercise. In non-diabetics, the pancreas produces insulin in the correct amount to cover it. Diabetics do not have the healthy first-phase insulin response necessary to do so.

Next time I get an A1C test, I will update the thread.

Everyone, including pre-diabetics and diabetics, deserves and can have normal blood sugars.

For solid information about high blood sugars and how to normalize them, I highly recommend the book "Diabetes Solution" by Dr. Richard Bernstein. The protocol (highly simplified) laid out therein for achieving truly normal blood sugars in a nutshell is as follows (note that each step includes all the previous ones, i.e., if #1 isn’t enough, you add #2, if still not enough you add #3, etc.):

1. First and foremost, a low-carb diet. No one with blood sugar control issues can achieve truly normal blood sugars without it, no matter what medications they're on. Dr. Bernstein's diet calls for less than 30 grams of carbohydrate per day for average-sized adults. I try to adhere to that, but it is pretty tough and may not be necessary for everyone. If your blood sugar control is only marginally compromised, you might first try below 100 grams per day. If that's not enough, try going down to 50 grams per day. If that doesn’t do it, try 30.

2. If diet alone is insufficient to achieve normal blood sugars, add exercise, both resistance and cardio.

3. If still insufficient, add oral agents. Metformin first and foremost. If that doesn't work, there are others to try.

4. If still insufficient, add insulin.

Good luck!

 

[DragonBits]

DragonBits, no one can diagnose you without taking a history, examining you, running the proper labs, etc. But I will say that, in general, I would expect that a patient who presents with a consistent fasting glucose of 100-110 mg/dl and routine post-prandial glucoses of 145, 156, 177, etc. is diabetic, perhaps mildly so, perhaps not.

You write very well.

I don't have time to respond to all of your post, but the key here is "consistent" and "routine".

My levels are neither, I gave the worst case levels. I have seen fasting BG at 98 and post-prandial levels in the 120-130s.

My own diagnosis is that i am insulin resistant and pre-diabetic. I do agree these are not levels seen in healthy non-diabetics.

More later, ciao

 

[Nashtide]

You write very well.

I don't have time to respond to all of your post, but the key here is "consistent" and "routine".

My levels are neither, I gave the worst case levels. I have seen fasting BG at 98 and post-prandial levels in the 120-130s.

My own diagnosis is that i am insulin resistant and pre-diabetic. I do agree these are not levels seen in healthy non-diabetics.

More later, ciao

Where is your body fat sitting at right now? Do you have access to an accurate measurement? Seems like almost any man with high bf% (above 25%) is somewhat insulin resistant and the higher the bf the worse the resistance.