UPDATE // New Member w/TRT protocol from Defy. Please compare, critique and advise!

#62
Pregnalone has not come up. My follow-up is in two days.

Is there a link between DHEA and Pregnalone?
Dhea and preg are used together to back fill pathways. As I have read we deplete those hormones while on trt so some guys supplement with both. Now I say that and that's not the case for everyone some people to dont respond well with supplementing them. I was just curious because defy had u supplement with dhea and not both.
 
Thread starter #63
Dhea and preg are used together to back fill pathways. As I have read we deplete those hormones while on trt so some guys supplement with both. Now I say that and that's not the case for everyone some people to dont respond well with supplementing them. I was just curious because defy had u supplement with dhea and not both.
Thanks, I'll be sure to bring it up on my follow-up.

I'll post an update right after.
 
Thread starter #66
Ok guys, this was my feedback from Defy:

- Testosterone came back at 1376. Free Testoesterone came back at 45. Doc suspects this is due to a very good response to HCG. So, reduce Testosterone dose from .25 (50mg) to .23 (46mg) over next two weeks. I can go down to .22 if I want to try that. Schedule is still 3x/wk, so new recommended dose is 138mg/wk.

- Estradiol came back at 48.6. Take Anastrozole WITH Testosterone shot. I mentioned I was taking it 24hrs after the shots. Doc said AI would be better at blocking conversion during T shot's peak, if taken together. Same dose (.125).

- Keep HCG dose at 350iu

- Keep DHEA at 25mg, nightly.

- SHBG came back at 16.9. No change in dosing schedule unless below 15.

- Donate blood due to higher Hematocrit (51.4)

- I asked about Pregnenolone. Doc does not usually prescribe it. Doc's experience is most patients feel no change while others get a feeling of "impending doom"; few feel good from adding it. If I want to try it out, wait until a couple of weeks (for above changes) and try 25mg of Pregnenolone and see how I feel.

- Do bloodwork again in four months.

What does everyone think?
 
#67
Here is my update after three months on TRT with Defy!

I feel very good. I have not had my follow-up because estradiol tests are delayed at LabCorp but here are the test results taken after 11 weeks.

Testosterone, Serum ..... (264 - 916 ng/dL) ........ 197 --> 1376
Testosterone, Free ......... (8.7 - 25.1 pg/nL) ....... 6.4 --> 45
DHEA .......................... (102.6 - 416.3 ug/dL) ... 235 --> 413
TSH ............................ (0.450 - 4.500 uIU/mL) . 1.25 --> 2.0
LH .............................. (1.7 - 8.6 mIU/mL) ....... 5.2 --> n/a
IGF-1 .......................... (88 - 246 ng/mL) ......... 216 --> n/a
SHBG ............. (16.5 - 55.9 nmol/L) ....... 23.7 --> 16.9
Estradiol, Sensitive ........ (8 - 35 pg/mL) ............ 21.9 --> 46.4
PSA .............. (0.0 - 4.0 ng/mL) ....... 0.4 --> 0.6
Hematocrit ... (40% - 52%) .... 46.6% --> 51.4%

Here is my protocol:
  • T Cyp 150mg/wk (M/W/F)*
  • HCG 350iu SQ (M/W/F)*
  • Anastrozole 0.125mg (M/W/F)*
  • DHEA 25mg every night
  • Vitamin D3 5000 iu daily
  • Fish oil for HDL support
*T Cyp, HCG and Anastrozole to be taken at the same time.


Based on this community's input and experiences, I do Monday morning, Wednesday afternoon and Friday night. I take the TCyp and HCG at the same time but take Anastrozole 24 hours later.

  • Ran out of HCG for about 10 days before refills came in. Libido slowed down and overall feeling of wellbeing and positivity lessened. Still far better than pre-TRT. Also noticed my penis was not as full when flaccid.
  • Libido has been strong and sad. Wife cannot keep up. Morning wood without fail, really strong. Also happens 2 or 3 times throughout the day. Teenager status.
  • Energy levels were mostly good. Insomnia several nights in the first two months despite vaping cannabis (which usually does the trick).
  • Appetite came on strong in the first couple of weeks. Has settled down but is good.
  • Mood has been good and stable since taking the Anastrozole as prescribed starting week 2.
  • Sleep seems deeper since I started DHEA as prescribed in week 4. Wife says I snore more often now.
  • Body hair grows faster, might even be a little thicker in some areas.
  • I was advised to donate blood due to Hematocrit. I'll be doing that this week.
Please chime in if any of the above means anything to you. I appreciate all your input! It has been extremely useful. Thank you.
I am a little jealous you dialed in so quickly :)
 
Thread starter #69
So here is an update:

Got some basic bloodwork through insurance/PCP which wouldn't cover several tests but what I did get is enough for me to share as it raises some concerns:

Testosterone, Serum ..... (241 - 827 ng/dL) ........ 1096
On trough, 60 hours post injection
SHBG ............. (10 - 50 nmol/L) ....... 9
SHBG was 24 pre-TRT, 17 three months later and 9 six months later (now)
Hematocrit ... (40% - 52%) .... 54.9
Hematocrit was 48.8 pre-TRT, 51.4 three months after, then I donated, 54.9 six months later (now)


Here is my protocol:
  • T Cyp 140mg/wk (M/W/F)*
    reduced from 150mg/wk
  • HCG 350iu SQ (M/W/F)
    unchanged
  • Anastrozole was stopped a month ago
  • DHEA 25mg every night
  • Fish oil
  • Vitamin D3 5000 iu daily

How am I feeling?
  • Libido fizzled out, it's nowhere near 3 months ago. Morning erections are still there but that's about it.
  • Energy levels are a little lower but still better than pre-TRT. Still feel good in the gym.
  • Sleep is still much deeper than pre-TRT
  • Body composition definitely better than pre-TRT despite only training about twice a week on average.
  • Body hair growth is more aggressive
  • Acne is more than pre-TRT but has subsided a little.
I'm currently waiting for some feedback from Defy. I'll update this post when they call me. Meanwhile, I'd love some feedback from this community.

Thanks!
 

fifty

Active Member
#70
You are on a similar protocol to me. At trough your free T is probably still off the charts. Imagine what it is 24&48 hrs post injection.

Hematocrit is a main concern of mine as it’s similar to yours also. I bet we could be 120mg per week and still be top end range without the hematocrit issues.
 
#73
I doubt his E2 is at 100 lol, but yes, with such a low SHBG, I guarantee 100% that your free E2 is sky high, especially considering you’re off your ai. I would imagine this is your issue. I would just back down the dose a great deal.
 
Thread starter #74
Right. Why did you stop the ai? Your e2 is probably 100. Free e2 with that shbg probably sky high
I saw some pretty compelling presentations by Dr. Neal Rouzier. He even managed to convince Dr. Crisler. Figured I would drop it for a month or two and see how I feel.
 
#75
I saw some pretty compelling presentations by Dr. Neal Rouzier. He even managed to convince Dr. Crisler. Figured I would drop it for a month or two and see how I feel.
That’s understandable. I’m currently trying to see how I would do off an ai as well, mostly due to the same reason.
 
#76
With that low shbg and high HCT, have you had any thoughts going to daily injections of testosterone. As you may know a lot of members with low shbg move to daily injections. I'm one member who does not have low shbg and still does daily injection.
 
Thread starter #77
With that low shbg and high HCT, have you had any thoughts going to daily injections of testosterone. As you may know a lot of members with low shbg move to daily injections. I'm one member who does not have low shbg and still does daily injection.
From what I've learned on this site and elsewhere, I would expect that daily injections would be best, perhaps with a lower weekly dose overall. I want to see what Defy recommends first - I am hesitant to make that decision on my own.

Even though you aren't low SBGH, what did you notice when you moved to daily?
 
#78
From what I've learned on this site and elsewhere, I would expect that daily injections would be best, perhaps with a lower weekly dose overall. I want to see what Defy recommends first - I am hesitant to make that decision on my own.

Even though you aren't low SBGH, what did you notice when you moved to daily?
My SHBG is 22 and I noticed a huge difference going from EOD to daily, I believe it had more to do with estrogen being lower and I didn't experience the peaks and troughs on daily like I do on EOD. I didn't even respond to TRT injecting twice weekly, nothing happened.
 
#79
From what I've learned on this site and elsewhere, I would expect that daily injections would be best, perhaps with a lower weekly dose overall. I want to see what Defy recommends first - I am hesitant to make that decision on my own.

Even though you aren't low SBGH, what did you notice when you moved to daily?
For me it was all about HCT, I was tired of donating blood so often. Since I went to daily injection, I have not had to donate blood. It's been well over two years now since I donated. It's not the same for everyone, some members even with daily injection still struggle with estrogen and HCT.
 
Thread starter #80
My SHBG is 22 and I noticed a huge difference going from EOD to daily, I believe it had more to do with estrogen being lower and I didn't experience the peaks and troughs on daily like I do on EOD. I didn't even respond to TRT injecting twice weekly, nothing happened.
Wow, I was about 23-24 before I started TRT 6 months ago. After three months, it went down to 16 and now its 9.
 
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