Unexpected Fallout of Covid-19 Crisis

Jinzang

Member
Everyone is hoping a vaccine will soon be available to prevent Covid-19. But one unexpected result that may lead to problems for men on this forum is that the vaccine will require a great number of stoppered vials to hold it and this may lead to a shortage of vials for testosterone. The article on Politico says:

"Meeting the overwhelming demand for a successful coronavirus vaccine will require a historic amount of coordination by scientists, drugmakers and the government. The nation’s supply chain isn’t anywhere close to ready for such an effort. The nation is already grappling with a shortage of the specialized glass used to make the vials that will store any vaccine. Producing and distributing hundreds of millions of vaccine doses will also require huge quantities of stoppers — which are made by just a handful of companies — as well as needles and refrigeration units. Low stocks of any one of these components could slow future vaccination efforts, much as shortfalls of key chemicals delayed widespread coronavirus testing."
 

Vince

Super Moderator
I'm told the fastest time they ever made a vaccine was 4 years. Hopefully they have better technology now.
 

Jinzang

Member
I believe that most of the time required to develop a vaccine or any other drug is the time needed for safety and efficacy testing. I hope they don't shortcut this process for the new vaccine, but already it looks like they're skipping the animal testing.
 

Vince

Super Moderator
The Navy is having continual problems with apparent re-infections. Naturally, they suspect that the original diagnostic test results were false positives, which if true, means that the tests cannot be relied on …
… or in the alternative, that the tests were accurate and that having been infected doesn’t necessarily confer immunity …
… none of which bodes well for any conjectured vaccine(s) …
… which may or may not arrive right after the long-expected SARS-CoV-1 vaccine hits the market (for which the wait is now in its 17th year, but hunker in your bunker until Bill Gates sounds the all-clear).
It’s an epidemiological mess any way you look at it.
 

DragonBits

Well-Known Member
I read there are 16,000+volunteers to test a vaccine, it's called a challenge vaccine.

The nightmare scenario is they rush a vaccine to market, 100 of millions get the vaccine, then a year later we discover it causes some other more serious problem.

Its unlikely but possible.

This always staying in my mind.

US and European scientists have published results confirming that a gene therapy technique triggered leukaemia in two boys taking part in a trial at the Necker hospital, Paris. Their findings, which appear in Science, show that the virus used to deliver the therapeutic gene activated a cancer-causing gene

 

sokaiya

Active Member
Not so fast.

Immunization with SARS Coronavirus Vaccines Leads to Pulmonary Immunopathology on Challenge with the SARS Virus

PLoS One. 2012; 7(4): e35421. Published online 2012 Apr 20.
 

sammmy

Active Member
Fatality rate is low because currently younger people not following any measures are driving the pandemic, not because any significant progress has been made in treatment. Younger people more rarely die from it.

Older people and people with chronic conditions should make everything possible to NOT get the virus because it is STILL deadly to most of them. Social distance, avoiding people gathering, avoiding closed spaces with people, washing hands and food/packages are the effective measures. The protective effect of masks is close to zero for air born viruses yet CDC keeps purporting that wearing masks is the main measure.
 

DragonBits

Well-Known Member
Fatality rate is low because currently younger people not following any measures are driving the pandemic, not because any significant progress has been made in treatment. Younger people more rarely die from it.

Older people and people with chronic conditions should make everything possible to NOT get the virus because it is STILL deadly to most of them. Social distance, avoiding people gathering, avoiding closed spaces with people, washing hands and food/packages are the effective measures. The protective effect of masks is close to zero for air born viruses yet CDC keeps purporting that wearing masks is the main measure.

I would disagree with your post on several fronts while agreeing with some of it. More a matter of degree than anything. These things aren't black or white.

1) Treatment has improved, I don't think Remdesivir is all the effective, steroid help a lot more, avoiding respirators in general at all costs helps. BUT the bigger part of the overall improvement is because more younger people are getting it.

2) I would strongly disagree with characteristing this as deadly to most older people. Rather, it's say 3 times more deadly for older people. Even though it's much higher death rate ii's still a minority of older people that die from covid.

3) Even though masks can't stop the smallest particles from being dispersed, it's common sense that it stops some percentage of spread . And most (? who know for sure, but I would bet most people), people aren't extremely careful about how they use a mask or really any hygiene issue. IMO the real argument should be how effective mask are? And does wearing a mask cause people to take more risks?

4) It really isn't the fatality rate that is the biggest problem, it's the hospitalization rate that causes the big problems. Hospitals simply can't handle the surge, causing many problems such as not being able to handle other emergency problems such as accidents, heart attacks, etc.

For instance, if 2% of people who got infected just got sick and died in 24 hours after infection, having 271,000 in the last 10 months would be a tradidy, but it wouldn't be an emergency. Probably more like 1% if you take into account a lot of people get infected but never show up as an active infection.

I am 68 and got covid in March, it was nothing, a runny nose and 99 fever. I don't show up in any stats since I never got a test, the only reason I know I had it is because I took an antibody test in June, and my wife (who is 44 btw), had a more serious case with all the symptoms though we never went to a hospital, I had planned on taking her had it gotten a little worse. She couldn't walk a mile without running out of breath She never could get a covid test at the time, so I don't think she shows up in stats either.
 

sammmy

Active Member
There is plenty of proof that masks are NOT effective for C19 - documented case studies of co-workers in a closed space wearing masks and still infecting each other. Also, a mask mandate does NOT decrease infection rate, a lockdown that imposes social distance DOES decrease it.

It's a common sense that a rag on your face that cannot stop smoke, also cannot stop aerosols with air-born virus. Another problem is that people put on a mask and think they are "protected" and disregard social distance - I've seen kids playing contact sports with masks as if they will stop anything !?!?!?

CDC and WHO are delusional in their continuous effort to emphasize masks, in effect de-emphasizing the ONLY effective logical measure - social distance. Because of the lack of elementary logic in their 'guidance' they are misleading common people. People put on a mask and think it's ok to go to a bar, restaurant, gym, take a bus full of people, etc and get infected. I am appalled by the lack of logical thinking in medical professionals. All the data is already there in published studies and they still do NOT get it how the virus spreads. A large group of medical scientists had to write an open letter to WHO that the data indicates the virus is airborn to make WHO admit it - before that it was all "wash your hands".
 
Last edited:

DragonBits

Well-Known Member
There is plenty of proof that masks are NOT effective for C19 - documented case studies of co-workers in a closed space wearing masks and still infecting each other. Also, a mask mandate does NOT decrease infection rate, a lockdown that imposes social distance DOES decrease it.

It's a common sense that a rag on your face that cannot stop smoke, also cannot stop aerosols with air-born virus. Another problem is that people put on a mask and think they are "protected" and disregard social distance - I've seen kids playing contact sports with masks as if they will stop anything !?!?!?

CDC and WHO are delusional in their continuous effort to emphasize masks, in effect de-emphasizing the ONLY effective logical measure - social distance. Because of the lack of elementary logic in their 'guidance' they are misleading common people. People put on a mask and think it's ok to go to a bar, restaurant, gym, take a bus full of people, etc and get infected. I am appalled by the lack of logical thinking in medical professionals. All the data is already there in published studies and they still do NOT get it how the virus spreads. A large group of medical scientists had to write an open letter to WHO that the data indicates the virus is airborn to make WHO admit it - before that it was all "wash your hands".

unfortunately, a large minority of people refuse to social distance, continue to party and go to bars, etc, and a lot of times it's not practical to social distance.

No doubt if you live in rural areas during June, it seems pretty stupid to social distance and wear a mask when at that time there were zero covid infections in rural areas and it looked strickly like a big city problem.

It's like seat belts, when they made seat belts a law many people protested, providing lots of data why they didn't work.

I can't see the harm in wearing a mask, so to me no big deal, and it will all be over with in 9 more months or so.

I would like a provision where people sign a contract that they don't want to wear a mask, or take a vaccine, whatever the current meme is about rules and government recommendations, and by signing that contract they agree that they won't be treated for any consequences, like they go to the bottom of the list if there is a shortage of hospital space.

I am more of a libertarian and I think for the most part people should be free to do any stupid thing they want regardless of how dangerous it is for themselves. Like I would be inclined to legalize most street drugs like cocaine. But I also believe people should have to bear the consequence of their actions and not be bailed out by society. Not going to happen, but it would be appropriate.

I am amused by internet warriors like you and I who make claims about highly technical data while the vast majority of medical professionals disagree.

I am glad I don't work in the medical profession or in government, a real thankless job with a lot of risks.

But I am also not inclined to debate issues like this as people make up their minds and regardless of any data, they aren't going to change their minds.
 

sammmy

Active Member
I have HIV and recently found out that my immune system is repeatedly incapable to deal with a common virus like HSV1 - I have to take daily meds for that to prevent recurrent severe headaches, fevers, and cold sores.

Obviously I am in a risk group for C19 and will get the vaccine the moment I can. The already published efficacy and safety data is sufficient for me. If the vaccine caused autoimmunity, we would have known by now. In C19 infection autoimmunity may develop in a matter of days, I don't see a reason for a vaccine to lead to that in a matter of years since it uses analogous antigens to prime immunity.
 

Online statistics

Members online
8
Guests online
7
Total visitors
15

Latest posts

Top