The “KETO” Diet (GOOD OR BAD) just when I was almost convinced...

#43
My bottle doesn't seem to list it.
Is one better than the other?

If I am only taking this to help reduce my LDL or raise my HDL is 120mg/day an OK amount?

https://www.amazon.com/Doctors-Best...09830212&sr=8-5&keywords=doctors+choice+coq10
Ubiquinol is more expensive and as such is always labeled as ubiquinol. Surely that is ubiquinone.

There is debate over which form is better, and some people respond better to one or the other. Generally Ubiquinol is marketed as better biovailability.

The real reasons to take CoQ10 are not so much about lipid balance, but it is a co-factor that needs to be present for every cell's metabolism. Like so many other things we produce less as we age, and statins stop our endogenous production of it. It is at the same point in the cell's production of cholesterol that CoQ10 is produced (mevalonate pathway) and this process is shut down by statins.

If you're on Red rice yeast which is a source of lovastatin, I'd up the dose of CoQ10. I take 200 of CoQ10 ubiquinone in the morning and 100 of Ubiquinol in the evening. That's after discontinuing Lipitor 3 years ago.

BTW, it is quite arguable these days whether 137 LDL is anything to worry about, Total cholesterol and total LDL have become VERY controversial. It seems the going trend is that these numbers are largely irrelevant. More important are particle counts and sizes, LpA, genetics etc. Vince has this info dialed.
 
#44
My Lipids at the peak of my depression December 2016 My weight was 206lbs.
Two years prior coming back from Canyonlands I weighed 180.



After cleaning up my diet losing 20lbs thru 20 mile per day mtn bike rides, bring my A1c from 6.4 to 5.6 and starting TRT

June 2017 My start with Defy Med.




Sept 2017 Defy followup



So I seem to be stuck. My diet is mostly clean, no I am not a spartan, I am trying to recover a lot of lost muscle and eating 170-200grams of protein per day is helping with that.
But all that steak/ eggs/ yogurt/low fat cottage cheese is killing my LDL.
http://whitakerwellness.com/health-concerns/treatments-for-heart-disease/what-is-coenzyme-q10/
https://www.drwhitaker.com/the-benefits-of-coq10

https://www.drwhitaker.com/choosing-the-right-coq10-supplement
 
Thread starter #45
Thanks Madman these were great reads.

Urgent Need for a Global Response
I announced that I had petitioned the FDA to require a warning on the labels of the statin cholesterol-lowering drugs stating that they block the production of CoQ10 and put people at risk of side effects. These side effects (liver dysfunction and myopathy, including cardiomyopathy and congestive heart failure) are specifically caused by drug-induced reduction of CoQ10 levels. The label warning should clearly state that patients taking statin drugs should also take 100 to 200 mg of CoQ10 to prevent and treat these side effects.
Looks like Dr Calkin is aware of the CoQ10 connection with statins. His recommendation of 120mg/day seems spot on.

Two Types of CoQ10: Ubiquinol and Ubiquinone

You should also know that there are two forms of CoQ10: ubiquinone and ubiquinol. Although both forms are effective, 95 percent of the CoQ10 that naturally exists in your body is ubiquinol. So, if you take a supplement containing the ubiquinol form, your body can use it right away. On the other hand, if you take ubiquinone, your body will need to convert it to ubiquinol, and there's a possibility that the conversion may not happen efficiently. That's why I consider ubiquinol the better of the two.

As for the dosage, most people benefit from taking 100–200 mg of CoQ10 daily. But this dose may be doubled or tripled if conditions warrant.
Is there ever any concern that ubiquinone or ubiquinol survives the digestion process better?
All these chemicals/ supplements we take must survive all that stomach acid before it can be adsorbed.
It makes me wonder how much of everything we take gets thru.
 
#46
Thanks Madman these were great reads.



Looks like Dr Calkin is aware of the CoQ10 connection with statins. His recommendation of 120mg/day seems spot on.



Is there ever any concern that ubiquinone or ubiquinol survives the digestion process better?
All these chemicals/ supplements we take must survive all that stomach acid before it can be adsorbed.
It makes me wonder how much of everything we take gets thru.
https://www.kanekanutrients.com/kaneka-ubiquinol
https://ca.iherb.com/pr/doctor-s-best-best-ubiquinol-featuring-kaneka-qh-100-mg-60-softgels/17133
http://www.q10facts.com/dr-judy-explains-coenzyme-q10-absorption/

Ubiquinone seems to be the preferred form as it was the source mainly used in most of the RDC(randomized controlled trials) and is more stable of the two. You should increase your dose to 100mg twice daily(morning/evening) to keep blood levels more stable. I used to take 200mg twice daily of ubiquinone but switched to ubiquinol to see if I noticed any difference. I use brands that contain Kaneka.
 
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#48
Just check various prices all over as ubiquinone is a lot cheaper and you should be able to come across a better price. I live in Canada and am using natural factors ubiquinol (Kaneka HQ) and take 100mg 3 times daily cost me roughly $25/month. Still an expensive supplement as when I was taking ubiquinone I was taking 200mg twice day and cost me around $15-20/month.
 
#49
Ubiquinone vs. Ubiquinol. In the body, CoQ10 exists either in its oxidized form, ubiquinone, or in its reduced form, ubiquinol. When oxidized CoQ10 (ubiquinone) is used by the body, it transforms and becomes ubiquinol. In the same way, reduced CoQ10 (ubiquinol) becomes ubiquinone when it carries out its role in the body.

As a person ages. it's easier for the body to use Ubiquinol.

http://www.naturemade.com/resource-...0-ubiquinone-vs-ubiquinol#921fEugVs2QtYyeK.97
 
Thread starter #51
Fruit pre-workout may be your best bet. Several studies show mostly liver replenishment and little muscle glycogen replenishment. So why not just have some pre-workout as a strategy and still be able to maximize the benefit and minimize the downsides...?? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3592616
Sorry skycop I'm not following. what does fruit pre workout have to do with KETO or C0Q10?
 
#52
I don't want to say anything that would prevent somebody from doing something at is working for them. However, there is no calorie controlled study that shows any sort of Ketogenic advantage when it comes to fat loss in healthy populations. There are certainly advantages in satiety and some minor advantages for extremely sedentary populations. If its working for you by all means keep doing it.

That said, we have macro nutrient minimums for protein and fat where we have no such thing when it comes to carbohydrates. (Your liver can synthesize enough carbohydrate to run the brain) So when adjusting calories we are largely manipulating carbs. My real point here is to say don't get caught up on a crazy strict adherence to a zero carb lifestyle. The important thing is long term adherence to a calorie deficit. Do what you need to make it comfortable enough to make a permanent lifestyle change.
 
#53
I'm also doing a ketogenic diet with intermittent fasting. My fast is usually 16-18 hours. I feel great on it. I'm never hungry and have tons of energy. I thought I felt good on the typical bodybuilder healthy diet that Jeff was promoting, until I gave this a shot. And if you want to see what keto can do and get real info on it, look up Dominic D'Agostino and all the podcasts he's done. I've been keto for 4 or 5 months, but he's been keto for like 10 years.
 
#54
I would eliminate the Nabisco saltine and Ritz crackers. That's white flour plus many other undesirable ingredients. That's just me.


HaHa, I actually love steamed veggies.
I follow alot of the ketosis ideas I eat a ton of veggies every day. Ketosis recommends 7-10 cups of raw veggies. I love steak and chicken breast and eat them both every day alternating lunch and dinner. I don't do enough good fats. I use and cook with olive oil.

I need to get a few more screen shots of myfitness.
This is a normal mtn biking day. Lunch is large and salty do to 3 hours of sweating over a 20 mile ride.
The snack is my post ride protein recovery drink.
I know it is not completely clean.

 
Thread starter #55
I would eliminate the Nabisco saltine and Ritz crackers. That's white flour plus many other undesirable ingredients. That's just me.
Thank you. They were a treat they are not an everyday staple. I had a 20 mile mtn bike ride and spent an entire day making my special bone broth soup.
5 saltines with the soup and 6 ritz to make homemade peanutbutter crackers for a salt energy snack mid bike ride. Eating salty filet minon beef jerky for the same reason. Non eof this on gym days.

I probably shouldn't have used this days food list because it was not a typical gym day diet plan.
I get a little crazy with the salty snacks when riding my bike since I leave most of it all over my handlebars and top tube.
 
#56
I guess you're more into cardio than bodybuilding. In that case, it probably doesn't matter. You need the carbs and you're not as concerned about muscle mass and appearance.


Thank you. They were a treat they are not an everyday staple. I had a 20 mile mtn bike ride and spent an entire day making my special bone broth soup.
5 saltines with the soup and 6 ritz to make homemade peanutbutter crackers for a salt energy snack mid bike ride. Eating salty filet minon beef jerky for the same reason. Non eof this on gym days.

I probably shouldn't have used this days food list because it was not a typical gym day diet plan.
I get a little crazy with the salty snacks when riding my bike since I leave most of it all over my handlebars and top tube.
 
Thread starter #57
So I have not given up on my research on the ketosis diet but I am finding big discrepancies.
Many here have said stop eating veggies they are loaded with carbs and you can't go into ketosis if you are consuming carbs.
Because carbs convert to sugar so no fat burning. But this ketosis guys says eat 7-10 cups of veggies a day. What the hell!?!
Please advise, thanks again everyone for your patience and assistance I am really enjoying the conversation.


And now this guys says STOP eating all that meat. 80% fat 15% protein 5% carb.

 
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#58
Non-starchy vegetables


  • leafy greens (Swiss chard, bok choy, spinach, lettuce, chard, chives, endive, radicchio, etc.)
  • some cruciferous vegetables like kale (dark leaf), kohlrabi, radishes
  • celery stalk, asparagus, cucumber, summer squash (zucchini, spaghetti squash), bamboo shoots
 
#59
Non-starchy vegetables


  • leafy greens (Swiss chard, bok choy, spinach, lettuce, chard, chives, endive, radicchio, etc.)
  • some cruciferous vegetables like kale (dark leaf), kohlrabi, radishes
  • celery stalk, asparagus, cucumber, summer squash (zucchini, spaghetti squash), bamboo shoots
Exactly.

And with however your doing the diet, get a ketone blood monitor and test your ketones. Then you know if what your doing is working or not.
 
#60
I've been on Keto for ever. Dr dom D Agustin's is the for most expert in true Keto. Most everyone else is trying to sell you crap (bulletproof coffee). Yes you can have some vegetables on it. Be advised, in the first few months of keto more than 2 cups a day of vegetables will most likely kick you out. Best bet is to get a blood meter that measures glucose and ketones. This way you know how your body reacts. I've been on it so long I can eat as much vegetables as I want and it doesn't kick me out. Cutting out caffeine will also help most people adapt.
You can build muscle on keto, anyone that says you can't does not know what their talking about. Once you adapted your protein amounts will increase. Carbs are not needed to build muscle, they just make your muscles look bigger. Anyone that has compete in bodybuilding knows this. That's why in the old days we did carb loading for a show. Keep at it, if your disciplined at it for a few solid months, your never go back.
 
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