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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
Testosterone plus Nandrolone = Estrogen overload?
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<blockquote data-quote="madman" data-source="post: 211063" data-attributes="member: 13851"><p><strong><em>I <u>NEVER got bloodwork</u> when I tried nandrolone but I felt like crap and my nipples were inflamed and <u>I quit after a REALLY FAST trial</u></em></strong></p><p></p><p>Hope you understand that blood levels from ND will take longer to stabilize than blood levels from the T due to the decanoate ester.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><em>taking test and nandrolone together and that nandrolone is a cofactor that helps test to aromatize into Estrogen. He states that these two together is basically aromatization hyperdrive</em></strong></p><p></p><p>When using/abusing high doses of ND with higher doses of T.....sure.</p><p></p><p>A therapeutic dose of T (100-200 mg/week) combined with a therapeutic dose of ND (50-100 mg/week).....highly doubt there would be any significant impact.</p><p></p><p>Many on trt running higher-end levels that end up struggling with e2 related sides may choose to switch over to a low dose T <100 mg/week and add in ND 100-150 mg/week protocol.</p><p></p><p>Even then many are using a therapeutic dose of T 100-200 mg/week and adding in a therapeutic dose of ND 50-100 mg/week to combat joint/bone pain.</p><p></p><p>Rare that anyone following such protocols using <u>therapeutic doses of T+ND</u> is running into issues with the so-called aromatization hyperdrive!</p><p></p><p>Are there outliers such as the men that are genetically prone to gynecomastia that is overly sensitive to a T+ND (therapeutic doses) protocol.....seems rare.</p><p> </p><p><strong><em>*Progestins also augment the stimulatory effect of estrogens on mammary tissue growth.</em></strong><em> <strong>There appears to be a strong synergy between these two hormones here, such that gynecomastia might even occur with the help of progestins, without excessive estrogen levels.</strong></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Testosterone with Nandrolone is considered to be one of the most fundamental 2-drug combination stacks. <strong>Nandrolone compliments the androgenic base of testosterone by supplementing additional anabolic activity <u>without strong estrogenicity</u>.</strong> <strong><u>The resulting stack is almost as productive as a cycle utilizing a higher dose of testosterone alone but less problematic in terms of estrogenic side effects such as water retention, gynecomastia, and fat buildup</u>. </strong>Estrogen conversion is still formidable enough to warrant the use of an estrogen maintenance drug, however, and this stack remains in the realm of mass building instead of lean mass or cutting.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><u>Nandrolone Decanoate</u></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Side Effects (Estrogenic):</strong></p><p></p><p><em><strong><u>Nandrolone has a low tendency for estrogen conversion, estimated to be only about 20% of that seen with testosterone</u>.434 This is because while the liver can convert nandrolone to estradiol, <u>in other more active sites of steroid aromatization such as adipose tissue nandrolone is far less open to this process</u>.435 <u>Consequently, estrogen-related side effects are a much lower concern with this drug than with testosterone</u>. </strong></em></p><p><em><strong></strong></em></p><p><em><strong><u>Elevated estrogen levels may still be noticed with higher dosing</u>, however, and may cause side effects such as increased water retention, body fat gain, and gynecomastia. </strong>An anti-estrogen such as clomiphene citrate or tamoxifen citrate may be necessary to prevent estrogenic side effects if they occur. One may alternately use an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex® (anastrozole), which more efficiently controls estrogen by preventing its synthesis. Aromatase inhibitors can be quite expensive in comparison to anti-estrogens, however, and may also have negative effects on blood lipids.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em><strong>It is of note that nandrolone has<u> some activity as a progestin in the body</u>.436 Although progesterone is a c-19 steroid, <u>removal of this group as in 19-norprogesterone creates a</u></strong></em></p><p><strong><em><u>hormone with greater binding affinity for its corresponding receptor</u>.</em></strong> <em><strong>Sharing this trait, many 19-nor anabolic steroids are shown to have some affinity for the progesterone receptor </strong></em><strong><em>as well.437</em></strong> <strong><em><u>The side effects associated with progesterone are similar to those of estrogen</u>, including negative feedback inhibition of testosterone production and enhanced rate of fat storage. <u>Progestins also augment the stimulatory effect of estrogens on mammary tissue growth</u>.</em></strong><em> <strong><u>There appears to be a strong synergy between these two hormones here, such that gynecomastia might even occur with the help of progestins, without excessive estrogen levels</u>. </strong>The use of an antiestrogen, which inhibits the estrogenic component of this disorder, is often sufficient to mitigate gynecomastia caused by nandrolone.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="madman, post: 211063, member: 13851"] [B][I]I [U]NEVER got bloodwork[/U] when I tried nandrolone but I felt like crap and my nipples were inflamed and [U]I quit after a REALLY FAST trial[/U][/I][/B] Hope you understand that blood levels from ND will take longer to stabilize than blood levels from the T due to the decanoate ester. [B][I]taking test and nandrolone together and that nandrolone is a cofactor that helps test to aromatize into Estrogen. He states that these two together is basically aromatization hyperdrive[/I][/B] When using/abusing high doses of ND with higher doses of T.....sure. A therapeutic dose of T (100-200 mg/week) combined with a therapeutic dose of ND (50-100 mg/week).....highly doubt there would be any significant impact. Many on trt running higher-end levels that end up struggling with e2 related sides may choose to switch over to a low dose T <100 mg/week and add in ND 100-150 mg/week protocol. Even then many are using a therapeutic dose of T 100-200 mg/week and adding in a therapeutic dose of ND 50-100 mg/week to combat joint/bone pain. Rare that anyone following such protocols using [U]therapeutic doses of T+ND[/U] is running into issues with the so-called aromatization hyperdrive! Are there outliers such as the men that are genetically prone to gynecomastia that is overly sensitive to a T+ND (therapeutic doses) protocol.....seems rare. [B][I]*Progestins also augment the stimulatory effect of estrogens on mammary tissue growth.[/I][/B][I] [B]There appears to be a strong synergy between these two hormones here, such that gynecomastia might even occur with the help of progestins, without excessive estrogen levels.[/B] Testosterone with Nandrolone is considered to be one of the most fundamental 2-drug combination stacks. [B]Nandrolone compliments the androgenic base of testosterone by supplementing additional anabolic activity [U]without strong estrogenicity[/U].[/B] [B][U]The resulting stack is almost as productive as a cycle utilizing a higher dose of testosterone alone but less problematic in terms of estrogenic side effects such as water retention, gynecomastia, and fat buildup[/U]. [/B]Estrogen conversion is still formidable enough to warrant the use of an estrogen maintenance drug, however, and this stack remains in the realm of mass building instead of lean mass or cutting.[/I] [B][U]Nandrolone Decanoate[/U] Side Effects (Estrogenic):[/B] [I][B][U]Nandrolone has a low tendency for estrogen conversion, estimated to be only about 20% of that seen with testosterone[/U].434 This is because while the liver can convert nandrolone to estradiol, [U]in other more active sites of steroid aromatization such as adipose tissue nandrolone is far less open to this process[/U].435 [U]Consequently, estrogen-related side effects are a much lower concern with this drug than with testosterone[/U]. [U]Elevated estrogen levels may still be noticed with higher dosing[/U], however, and may cause side effects such as increased water retention, body fat gain, and gynecomastia. [/B]An anti-estrogen such as clomiphene citrate or tamoxifen citrate may be necessary to prevent estrogenic side effects if they occur. One may alternately use an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex® (anastrozole), which more efficiently controls estrogen by preventing its synthesis. Aromatase inhibitors can be quite expensive in comparison to anti-estrogens, however, and may also have negative effects on blood lipids. [B]It is of note that nandrolone has[U] some activity as a progestin in the body[/U].436 Although progesterone is a c-19 steroid, [U]removal of this group as in 19-norprogesterone creates a[/U][/B][/I] [B][I][U]hormone with greater binding affinity for its corresponding receptor[/U].[/I][/B] [I][B]Sharing this trait, many 19-nor anabolic steroids are shown to have some affinity for the progesterone receptor [/B][/I][B][I]as well.437[/I][/B] [B][I][U]The side effects associated with progesterone are similar to those of estrogen[/U], including negative feedback inhibition of testosterone production and enhanced rate of fat storage. [U]Progestins also augment the stimulatory effect of estrogens on mammary tissue growth[/U].[/I][/B][I] [B][U]There appears to be a strong synergy between these two hormones here, such that gynecomastia might even occur with the help of progestins, without excessive estrogen levels[/U]. [/B]The use of an antiestrogen, which inhibits the estrogenic component of this disorder, is often sufficient to mitigate gynecomastia caused by nandrolone.[/I] [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
Testosterone plus Nandrolone = Estrogen overload?
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