Test cream users: Do you feel better with 1x/day or 2X/day application?

[Weasel]

Interesting chart out to 48hrs.

 

[KevinS]

Interesting chart out to 48hrs.

Gels, wonder if the cream is similar ? I

 

[Weasel]

Gels, wonder if the cream is similar ? I

If so, It could confirm @Fortunate theory of a much longer half life than we have been thinking. Steady state may still happen eventually using the larger doses that most are.

 

[SSHSSA74]

I wanted to post some feedback to function as a datapoint for anyone out there using or considering cream. I have used Natesto in the past on a long term basis, but for a few reasons, have been looking for alternatives. Among a few other protocols, I have tried and stopped cream a few times. While exploring new protocols, I have been using Natesto to bridge me from one treatment protocol to the next.

I have two cream strengths, 200mg/ml and 150mg/ml. Both Atrevis base. This gave me the ability to really fine tune dosing, allowing me to try 1,2,3 or 4 clicks from either strength at various locations (scrotum vs. shoulder). I introduced even more variability by trying these combinations once a day vs. twice a day. If you do the math, there are many iterations.

I won't bore with play-by-play details, but I tried a variety of combinations. It seemed like I got decent results with 1 click scrotum/1click shoulder in the AM and 1 click shoulder in the late afternoon (total of 112.5mg/day). However, like I experienced the first time I tried cream, I eventually start to feel "over the top". I would describe it as an uncomfortable, hyped up feeling coupled with mild anxiety. I noted a higher resting heart rate than normal. I actually experienced what I think were periodic PVC's (premature ventricular contractions) - which felt like an off-tempo heartbeat for one contraction followed by normal rhythm. This last observation is hard to pin down to TRT, but I am fairly confident it was related to whatever hormone levels I had at the time. Technically, to be really diligent, I could have really ramped down my dose, been more patient and followed symptoms over a longer period of time. But, as the subject of the experiment, that can be hard. I was reasonably methodical about following the subjective experience based on how much I was applying and when. But to be really useful information, it would require sticking to a specific dose for much longer than I did. So, take this all with a grain of salt.

Further, unfortunately, I can't provide labs, which would be a useful data point. I didn't bother getting labs because each trial on cream only lasted 2-4 weeks, and typically, we should wait until six weeks before getting labs. It would be useful to try to assign the subjective experience to a certain level of T, DHT and/or e2. That said, I can tell you that I am fairly confident my levels were supraphysiologic based on how I felt.

I have posted previously my theory on why so many guys around here have tested extremely high T levels while on cream. I think it is related to a mismatch between the drug half-life and the application schedule (daily). Dose would play into this as well. I suspect that each time I applied cream, I pushed everything up (peak, trough and average levels). Theoretically, this should be somewhat under our control, as we can titrate the dosing a bit by number of clicks and location.

In any case, during my most recent experience on cream, once again, I started feeling bad (anxious, hyped up, low grade headache). So, I decided to transition away from cream again. @Cataceous has been incredibly helpful in my exploring a new protocol. I have yet to start that, but I wanted to share my experience, not only with being on cream, but also with stopping it.

Two days ago, I applied 37.5mg to the scrotum/37.5mg to the shoulder in the AM and 37.5mg to the shoulder in the PM. That evening, I decided it was time to stop. 24 hours after the last AM cream dose and roughly 12 hours from the PM cream dose, the next morning, I started Natesto again (logic was that T levels should be declined by then). I still felt a bit hyped up from the cream, but tolerable. Then, by around 4-5PM, 36 hours after the AM cream dose and 24 hours after the very last PM cream dose, I started feeling terrible. Dizzy, rapid heart rate, bad migraine. It lasted until around the middle of the night and I had to use triptan medication to deal with the migraine.

Why is all this relevant? I think the terrible experience was related to the hormone transition. I felt kinda bad with what I assume were high levels, but I felt ten times worse during what I assume was a transition period. My assumption is that the bigger the drop in levels, the more subjectively noticeable this transition would be. It is commonly believed that women who experience migraines around the time of their period are sensitive to sudden drops in estrogen levels. It's the decline down that makes them get the headaches. My logic tells that based on how bad I felt, there may have been a sharp drop in some combination of hormone levels. Maybe it was E2 alone that caused this? Maybe T, DHT and E2?

As I said above, having labs would answer all this, but based on how bad this subjective experience was, I concluded that I must have had very supraphysiologic levels that dropped relatively quickly. While all this is conjecture, let it be a cautionary tale demonstrating using cream may cause dangerously high levels and how challenging using cream can be.

I would not 100% rule out another trial in the future, but at this point, I am very leery. As many wiser than me have said already, go low and slow and try to be patient.

I have Atrevis 200mg/ml. Yesterday, I applied 100mg to scrotum around 4pm, then 200 mg to scrotum and inner thigh (mostly scrotum) around 9:30 or 10PM. Later that night I was so horny I couldn't stand it, major erection, but I have noticed that my anxiety is REALLY high, tight chest and throat. I also do 14mg enanthate EOD IM and hCG 500 2x per week. I have been on this protocol for a few days. I have read about other guys who had intense anxiety with high dose cream that ameliorated after 3-4 weeks. They all said they were glad they stuck it out. We shall see.

 

[Dicky]

I have Atrevis 200mg/ml. Yesterday, I applied 100mg to scrotum around 4pm, then 200 mg to scrotum and inner thigh (mostly scrotum) around 9:30 or 10PM. Later that night I was so horny I couldn't stand it, major erection, but I have noticed that my anxiety is REALLY high, tight chest and throat. I also do 14mg enanthate EOD IM and hCG 500 2x per week. I have been on this protocol for a few days. I have read about other guys who had intense anxiety with high dose cream that ameliorated after 3-4 weeks. They all said they were glad they stuck it out. We shall see.

Do you usually dose in the morning, or is this your usual schedule? I find that dosing that late keeps me awake all night

 

[SSHSSA74]

Do you usually dose in the morning, or is this your usual schedule? I find that dosing that late keeps me awake all night

yes. I usually dose like this. I still sleep decently, not great.

 

[Weasel]

Gels, wonder if the cream is similar ? I

Hydrogel is a gel correct?

 

[madman]

Hydrogel is a gel correct?

Yes but more like a water-based cream-gel which is a (3D) network of polymers that also has three unique, naturally derived skin permeation enhancers

It is made without alcohol.

*A hydrogel is a three-dimensional (3D) network of polymers or molecular structures capable of retaining fluids and drugs. The benefits of using AtrevisTM include superior hormone delivery, quick absorption through the skin, no alcohol content, and it does not clog the skin pores.

Empower can make T creams with the Atrevis base Hydrogel.

New Atrevis Hydrogel Based Testosterone Cream from Empower: Surprising Results!

After a month of using the new hydrogel cream from Empower Pharmacy at 1 ml per day (4 clicks of 0.25 mg each) my testosterone increased dramatically higher than it was even on 200 mg per week of injectable testosterone cypionate. and this was after using the cream plus pregnenolone 100 mg...

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