I wanted to get some feedback from guys that have switched from injectable to topical. I’ve struggled for years with injectable and felt the best in the beginning with Androgel 1.62. I’ve recently started back on Androgel and not feeling super as of yet but I’m slowly upping the dose. I’m currently at 3 pumps and will move to 4 in a week or so. I’m sure it will take a while for things to stabilize because cypionate sticks around with me for several weeks. Any feedback or success stories appreciated, thanks.
Switch from injectable to topical
- Thread starter sh1973
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- topical testosterone
I switched about two months ago to scrotal application after 9 years of injections. I'm at 50 mg applied twice a day. Started out at 50 once a day. I like it better overall. Took awhile to let things settle, and I had a period where I felt overstimulated for a few weeks (I've heard others report this as well). Sex drive and erections seemed to waver a bit, but once doc upped the dose and it settled in I've been fine. I had issues on injections witn pre existing anxiety and it seemed to aggravate it. Now that things have settled on the cream I'm happier in that department. I'm familiar with your struggles on the injections and they mirrored mine in many ways. Stay the course and give it time.
My switch has been going alright so far. Libido is surprisingly a little down from when I was on prop. It’s still ok, but was expecting it to increase for sure, due to the increase in DHT that I’m assuming is occurring. I’m honestly a poor example to base anything off of though. I’m trying to dial in my thyroid atm, and just moved out last week from a mold infested house. But nothing negative to report going from prop to cream. Just nothing really different or positive to report yet either. Continuing to up my dose every 7-14 days, and getting labs done at the same interval, until my free T gets where I like it. Here are my labs so far on the cream.
10-4-19
3 clicks back of knees am, 3 clicks inner forearms pm. (50mg/ click)
Labs done 5 hours after am application
Total T - 817 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T - 19.9 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)
10-15-19
2 clicks to scrotum, 1 click to back of knees. 3 clicks to forearms in pm.
Labs done 3 hours after am application
Total T - 1428 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T - 31.5 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)
Now doing 2 clicks to scrotum, 1 click to back of knees am, 1 click to scrotum, 2 clicks to forearms in pm, and will be doing labs in another week. Sorry I have nothing exciting to report. Hopefully some other guys chime in with some success stories.
10-4-19
3 clicks back of knees am, 3 clicks inner forearms pm. (50mg/ click)
Labs done 5 hours after am application
Total T - 817 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T - 19.9 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)
10-15-19
2 clicks to scrotum, 1 click to back of knees. 3 clicks to forearms in pm.
Labs done 3 hours after am application
Total T - 1428 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T - 31.5 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)
Now doing 2 clicks to scrotum, 1 click to back of knees am, 1 click to scrotum, 2 clicks to forearms in pm, and will be doing labs in another week. Sorry I have nothing exciting to report. Hopefully some other guys chime in with some success stories.
Sleeps the same I feel like. I’ve always slept good on HRT as long as my free T levels are at least mid range. My sleep hygiene is pretty good. I wear blue/ green blocking glasses a couple hours before bed, try not to eat 2-3 hours before bed, and take magnesium prior to bed. Sleeps always been very good doing all those things.
The dose sounds high, but the dose is really dependent on where you apply it. 1 click to your stomach, for example, is a much much lower dose than 1 click to your scrotum. So with cream, the dose is really dependent not only on how many clicks, but also where it’s applied. I just started applying it to my scrotum 2 weeks ago, and just started with the 3rd click to the scrotum 4 days ago. So it’s also very early to assess how things are working for me on the cream. One thing I have noticed since getting my levels up after that first blood test is that my muscles feel a little fuller, and I’m more vascular. Also, today before work I had the urge to masturbate. I was almost late for work because of it lol. Haven’t had that urge for a little bit, so that’s a good sign. Since I started the cream, of I masturbated it was just because I was bored, not because I had the need to.
@sh1973 Im curious to see how u do on the gel. I’ve assumed that a lot of the benefits guys are having on the cream is due to the increased DHT. Obv you can’t apply the gel to your scrotum and get the DHT boost, so really curious to see if you still do well on it. I would imagine as long as your levels get up to healthy levels, you’ll at least so as well as you would on injections. There is the other variable to consider, which is the more drastic peak and trough of gels, than injections, which arguably the body may actually prefer.
Do you think the faster peak and trough of levels could be a reason why the gel may have worked for you in the past better than injections?
Also, how does your dose the first time around compare to your current dose of the gel?
Do you think the faster peak and trough of levels could be a reason why the gel may have worked for you in the past better than injections?
Also, how does your dose the first time around compare to your current dose of the gel?
It burns from the alcohol in it, supposedly. Never tried it.
I was on 4 pumps before and levels were 800-900ng 6-7 hours after. I did apply the gel a couple times scrotal a year or so ago with injections and honestly it was only a minor discomfort and dried super fast. It didn’t really help much in conjunction with injections but I’d imagine it skyrocketed my levels. I respond really well to everything, too well unfortunately. I tried the compounded creams 3 times, once through defy and I think the gels are far superior. The cream comes on really fast and leaves fast. The gels are more uniform and don’t need to be applied twice a day. Plus it’s free with insurance lol, so a no brained in my situation. Dr Crisler stated a few times that gels were his preferred method of application as well.
I’ve not came to that conclusion yet. I’m still in the transition between them right now. Insurance will cover generic androgel 1.62 or brand name with mine. They’re the same so I’d go with whatever is cheapest. Years ago whenever I tried the compounded creams, they were $60-$80 per bottle. Just like cypionate from a pharmacy, the cash price for 10ml with a good rx coupon is $40 and with insurance is free. Why on earth would I go compounded when I can get pharmaceutical grade for free. I like to spend the least possible and certainly don’t fault anyone for going compounded routes. To answer one of your questions, injectable modalities in no way whatsoever mimics human physiology, even with daily injections. I did propionate a few weeks and my levels were sky high three days after a single injection. Topicals are the closet in mimicking our natural processes. You’re not supposed to have elevated t around the clock. This is one of the problems that causes insomnia in a lot of men. I’ve came to no conclusions yet if it’s going to work as good now as it did in the beginning. I will say my conclusion that gels are better than creams I’m absolutely certain of-in many respects. I also tried Axiron in the beginning before androgel but couldn’t tolerate it on my armpits. 4 pumps of axiron had my total t at 1425ng nearly 8 hours after application. You hear all these stories about the gels not getting levels up and it’s complete BS at least in my experience.
Thanks for your input. Love hearing actual anectodal stories instead of theoretically how things are supposed to work from flawed studies.
I’ve actually thought about applying some of the cream to shaven armpits. I would imagine that site absorbs very well. You ever thought about applying the gel there to increase absorption? Where are you applying the gel currently? I think androgel says to apply it to chest and shoulders right? Which I’m not sure why. Those sites done really seem the best for vascularity and absorption.
I’ve actually thought about applying some of the cream to shaven armpits. I would imagine that site absorbs very well. You ever thought about applying the gel there to increase absorption? Where are you applying the gel currently? I think androgel says to apply it to chest and shoulders right? Which I’m not sure why. Those sites done really seem the best for vascularity and absorption.
The axiron was an armpit gel and after a few days really irritated my skin. You hear these horror stories with gel on your balls but it’s honestly on slightly uncomfortable for a few seconds. I just don’t like the idea of putting hormones that close to my prostate. Not enough studies if any stating it’s safe. I’d rather not be a statistic lol.
100 mg a day split in AM and PM. Started at 50.....my doc originally wanted to go 200 mg a day, but I told him I preferred to titrate up. I hear of the guys using that much but I don't know how I would handle it. I got quite a bit of initial overstimulation on 100, and I had been down that road before.
Not yet. Due here pretty soon. My doc isn't a bloodwork Nazi and I gotta admit I like that because I've spent a fortune over the years running in testing this or that everytime I felt "off" trying to figure out why.
I agree. My total was 740 on 50 mg, but its a whole different game with the cream due to the halflife, etc. I've been at this for awhile and believe it or not I've never done any of the commercial transdermal gels (mainly due to cost). I see androgel is available in generic now.....depending upon my dht levels I may consider that, although if I'm feeling pretty good on scrotal I will be loathe to change. Speaking of that, I did so e research and found DHT "can " actually provide a calming effect on the CNS.....its weird how it can be stimulating yet the cream doesn't seem to aggravate my anxiety near as much as the injections.
Ya I like that approach. I’m just too OCD to not know lol. What I’ve been doing is just using the $35 test from discounted labs. It tests total and free T. So just been doing that around 10 days after I change the cream protocol. My goal is to reach a free T level that I know my body likes, while not sky rocketing DHT. I’ve been on 300mg/ day basically when I started the cream. I’m increasing my levels my applying one more click to my scrotum after each time I get labs. Levels on 2 clicks to the scrotum were as follows. So not too far off. Just want to bump up my free T a bit. Currently using 3 clicks to the scrotum and will be getting labs done soon.
Total T - 1428 ng/dl (264-916)
Free T - 31.5 pg/ml (8.7-25.1)
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