Some labs out of range -- would you change anything?

[Grendl]

Hi All,

My question is: Given my data below -- would you change anything?

Me: 61yo, 5'10", 165lbs, TRT for nearly 2 years. I've titrated up over that time up to current .10mg test cyp SQ daily (last 6 months). Good body composition, good energy, good cognitive function, good libido/sexual function. Some slight sides (minor acne, maybe faster hair loss). In a nutshell, I "feel great" - I wish I were 40 years younger, but otherwise no complaints.

Current LabCorp results (ref range) show:

Total Test: 1016 (264-916) *high*
Free Test: 41 (5-21) *high*
Free %: 4%
Estradiol: 46 (8-35) *high*
IFG1: 249 (64-240) *high*

Lipids aren't great (total cholesterol 201) - but controlled w/statin, and historically stable. Considered low CVD risk due to general health/calcium score/etc. Everything else not listed above is within ref ranges.

I believe i could lower the T dose and bring the Test/Estradiol back w/in range... but I'm tempted to simply leave things where they are, and enjoy feeling/performing well. Would you change anything?

--

 

[sammmy]

Are the labs at trough, before the next injection?
Hematocrit?

 

[Grendl]

Are the labs at trough, before the next injection?
Hematocrit?

Yes, at trough (but I inject daily, so that's every day), 9AM, before next injection. Hematocrit (16.5) & Hemoglobin (49) are highish but within range.

 

[sammmy]

I would decrease the dose, to see if I get the same benefit with less testosterone and less price and side effects.

 

[madman]

Hi All,

My question is: Given my data below -- would you change anything?

Me: 61yo, 5'10", 165lbs, TRT for nearly 2 years. I've titrated up over that time up to current .10mg test cyp SQ daily (last 6 months). Good body composition, good energy, good cognitive function, good libido/sexual function. Some slight sides (minor acne, maybe faster hair loss). In a nutshell, I "feel great" - I wish I were 40 years younger, but otherwise no complaints.

Current LabCorp results (ref range) show:

Total Test: 1016 (264-916) *high*
Free Test: 41 (5-21) *high*
Free %: 4%
Estradiol: 46 (8-35) *high*
IFG1: 249 (64-240) *high*

Lipids aren't great (total cholesterol 201) - but controlled w/statin, and historically stable. Considered low CVD risk due to general health/calcium score/etc. Everything else not listed above is within ref ranges.

I believe i could lower the T dose and bring the Test/Estradiol back w/in range... but I'm tempted to simply leave things where they are, and enjoy feeling/performing well. Would you change anything?

--

You are hitting a very high TT/FT level.

Glad to see that you had your labs done using the most accurate assays TT/estradiol (LC-MS/MS) and FT (Equilibrium Ultrafiltration).

Injecting daily there is going to be minimal difference in the peak--->trough.

You already have experience with lower doses and it seems as though you may have found your sweet spot.


I've titrated up over that time up to current .10mg test cyp SQ daily (last 6 months). Good body composition, good energy, good cognitive function, good libido/sexual function. Some slight sides (minor acne, maybe faster hair loss). In a nutshell, I "feel great" - I wish I were 40 years younger, but otherwise no complaints.


If you truly feel better running higher TT/FT levels and overall blood markers are healthy/not struggling with any sides on such protocol then ride it out and enjoy.

Personally, I would not fret over some minor acne.

Increased hair loss would be the s**tkicker for some but even then genetics plays a big role and some men can still experience MPB running lower levels of test.

Do what you feel is best for you.

 

[madman]

I would decrease the dose, to see if I get the same benefit with less testosterone and less price and side effects.

Me: 61yo, 5'10", 165lbs, TRT for nearly 2 years. I've titrated up over that time up to current .10mg test cyp SQ daily (last 6 months).

Did you miss that part?

 

[tareload]

Me: 61yo, 5'10", 165lbs, TRT for nearly 2 years. I've titrated up over that time up to current .10mg test cyp SQ daily (last 6 months).

Did you miss that part?

What information above leads you to the conclusion the OP found his sweet spot? He titrated up and feels good. Great. Is there any info above ruling out he could titrate down, still feel good and prevent some of the side effects at lower TT/fT levels? Is 70 mg/week and corresponding TT/FT really MED for the OP? My read is the response surface has not been properly mapped out in full yet.

If he knew what was best for himself he darn sure wouldn't be posting on here. Nobody would. Feelings are nice though.

If I secretly switched his 10 mg/day to 5 or 7 or 8 would he notice any +/- difference after 6 months without bloodwork??

 

[sammmy]

The OP is clearly flying above natural range at trough, and even more at peak. This is not required for resolution of hypogonadal symptoms. It is required if he wants to be a bodybuilder with the corresponding side effects.

I remember reading an old article about oral TU in the old days. They used lower doses TU back then and could only achieve low normal levels of circulating T. What was striking was that even these low levels were able to resolve hypogonadal symptoms and increase quality of life. If less is sufficient, why overdo it with possibility of long term side effects.

 

[tareload]

Table: conversion between peak/trough/mean for first order absorption/elimination PK model assuming 4.5 day elimination half life and 8 hr absorption half life

My next blood test

I will go see my doctor in about 4 weeks . Brief history and areas of concern: * 750mg testosterone undeconoate every 12 weeks January 2017 RBC - 5.65 Hemoglobin - 16.8 Hematocrit - 50.9 TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, RGA MALES (ADULT), IA - 772 * 750mg testosterone undeconoate every 4 weeks March...

www.excelmale.com

Very small difference between peak and trough with every day injection. Table above would dampen out for SQ (parameters were intended to simulate IM literature data).

 

[Gman86]

@Grendl Are u taking anything to get ur IGF-1 that high? That’s a great level to have if ur not taking anything, especially at ur age. I’m jealous, and I’m 36 lol

 

[S1W]

Hi All,

My question is: Given my data below -- would you change anything?

Me: 61yo, 5'10", 165lbs, TRT for nearly 2 years. I've titrated up over that time up to current .10mg test cyp SQ daily (last 6 months).

--

I wonder if you meant .10 ml... Not impossible I guess, but high numbers for 10 mg.

Anyway, I say if you feel great don't change anything.

 

[tareload]

I wonder if you meant .10 ml... Not impossible I guess, but high numbers for 10 mg.

Anyway, I say if you feel great don't change anything.

Good clarification. Maybe 140 mg/week instead of 70? missed the decimal point.

Dose response estimate:

 

[Grendl]

You are hitting a very high TT/FT level.

Glad to see that you had your labs done using the most accurate assays TT/estradiol (LC-MS/MS) and FT (Equilibrium Ultrafiltration).

Injecting daily there is going to be minimal difference in the peak--->trough.

You already have experience with lower doses and it seems as though you may have found your sweet spot.


I've titrated up over that time up to current .10mg test cyp SQ daily (last 6 months). Good body composition, good energy, good cognitive function, good libido/sexual function. Some slight sides (minor acne, maybe faster hair loss). In a nutshell, I "feel great" - I wish I were 40 years younger, but otherwise no complaints.


If you truly feel better running higher TT/FT levels and overall blood markers are healthy/not struggling with any sides on such protocol then ride it out and enjoy.

Personally, I would not fret over some minor acne.

Increased hair loss would be the s**tkicker for some but even then genetics plays a big role and some men can still experience MPB running lower levels of test.

Do what you feel is best for you.

Thanks @madman, I appreciate the feedback!

 

[Grendl]

I would decrease the dose, to see if I get the same benefit with less testosterone and less price and side effects.

Thanks @sammmy -- I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Grendl]

@Grendl Are u taking anything to get ur IGF-1 that high? That’s a great level to have if ur not taking anything, especially at ur age. I’m jealous, and I’m 36 lol

No, nothing other than test cyp and creatine, hopefully it's just genetic and not indicative of any problem. It does help I think with the body composition.

 

[Grendl]

I wonder if you meant .10 ml... Not impossible I guess, but high numbers for 10 mg.

Anyway, I say if you feel great don't change anything.

I did indeed mean .10ml, .20mg -- I even thought about not making that type as I entered the text, and it somehow still slipped by me. So total of 140mg/week. Thanks for your comments!

 

[Grendl]

If he knew what was best for himself he darn sure wouldn't be posting on here. Nobody would. Feelings are nice though.

Fair point, though I do find the feedback here useful.

 

[tareload]

I did indeed mean .10ml, .20mg

0.1 ml x 200 mg/ml = 20 mg ??

 

[Grendl]

0.1 ml x 200 mg/ml = 20 mg ??

Argh... another typo. I meant: 20mg daily, 140mg per week.

 

[Willyt]

I wonder if you meant .10 ml... Not impossible I guess, but high numbers for 10 mg.

Anyway, I say if you feel great don't change anything.

Good catch! I was about to comment yet another great example of daily low dose producing big results. 20mg not so much.