Should father start TRT age 61

[blinkyvx]

5 years ago had Low lab results, got put on gel applied to shoulders didn't do shit . [no surprise]. Fast forward i tell him about my positive changes and hes interested, will post his labs up, doc started hi mon 100mg/week going to have him do daily injections as well. Any reason for him not to?
Id say hes high BF% , but active daily, use to go to gym and will get back into that as well. Diet avg

labs to come

 

[blinkyvx]

These were talking 2 months ago about. Cbc/camp normal dont have results to post or other TRT tests as his doctor didnt run them.

 

[Vince Carter]

There's little to no reason some one should be on a daily injection certainly not for starters.

 

[blinkyvx]

and why is that though? From what i have read and experienced daily is quite great.
-no hct spikes
-no T spikes
- stable T levels
-limit possible E spikes related to T spikes

Can you state any downsides of daily injections?

 

[at15]

its fine man, starting out or a veteran there is nothing stopping someone from daily injects. it can just be a little tough right at the start if someone has never injected anything. you better assist the first week or so with proper injection technique or make sure someone is there. rotate sites, etc. is he doing subq or im ?

 

[blinkyvx]

IM and ya id show him how and such, ive shown him on myself so he feels ok with it , but ya someone showing helps.

 

[Mountain Man]

Agree with Vince Carter. IM injection of 100 mg weekly and see how that works. And make sure he works out. Some resistance work, even 30 minutes a day will make him a new man in no time. Keep it simple. New habits and a new lifestyle are in order. Inject weekly, outside of the quad.

 

[blinkyvx]

Agree with Vince Carter. IM injection of 100 mg weekly and see how that works. And make sure he works out. Some resistance work, even 30 minutes a day will make him a new man in no time. Keep it simple. New habits and a new lifestyle are in order. Inject weekly, outside of the quad.

ive drilled it into him that just T isnt magic, he has to do his share.

As mentioned since starting TRT have read many guys on 1x a week dosing and it just often doesn't seem to work out...I read time and again guys switch to 2x a week dosing 3x dosing or ED/EOD dosing. Due to drawbacks mentioned above...

Can you give any downsides to daily injections? I've searched this and haven't found much to warrant daily injections being negative whether it be here, the web, facebook TRT groups and my own experience.

What exactly are the pros of 1x a week dosing vs daily?

- Have you seen steroid graphs of how T levels fluctuate over that week of time? The highs and lows , then same graph on daily injections shows much more stable levels...

 

[Vince Carter]

You're doing a an awful lot of guessing and off target presumptions that this guy will need a daily injection. You're just not right on this one, a new guy starting out, you've got absolutely zero idea how he'll respond yet you want him to stick himself every single day. Daily injections are just envogue and almost not at all needed for 99.9% of guys.

Graphs? None of this is linear in any way.

Either youre listening to people that know, you came here for answers, or you're not. Wrap that up in your presence here.

 

[slicktop]

Big evangelist for daily injections here *for certain situations* simply because they've worked wonders for me. But I agree with Vince, I wouldn't suggest starting a new TRT regimen with dailies. I also wouldn't start with weekly shots through an IM harpoon either, but that's just me. Every 3.5 days seems to be a happy medium for most people and subq needles are cheap, absolutely painless the majority of the time, and easier to dispose of the sharps. And no risk of damaging the muscle tissue!

 

[blinkyvx]

Graphs? None of this is linear in any way.

Either youre listening to people that know, you came here for answers, or you're not. Wrap that up in your presence here.

Im more than here to listen,but you just arent providing evidence for your point of view
provide pros and cons of each?
-you and others have yet to show dailyz arent needed and or can be harmful

daily injections mimic our bodies daily production of T..true /false?
1x aweek dosing causes a spike and subsequent fall of T levels/true false?

from my point of view all i see is "listen to me but im not giving evidence, but you are wrong"

 

[Cataceous]

...
-you and others have yet to show dailyz arent needed and or can be harmful

daily injections mimic our bodies daily production of T..true /false?
1x aweek dosing causes a spike and subsequent fall of T levels/true false?
...

The possible harm in starting with a daily schedule is the greater risk of injection fatigue. Daily injections of testosterone cypionate/enanthate do not mimic natural daily production: you end up with dead flat testosterone levels, so one might as well do EOD instead, which also gives pretty flat levels—my testosterone varied only a few percent on this protocol. Mimicking a normal diurnal rhythm is actually pretty tricky, though I think I'm pretty close with a combination of daily enanthate and propionate. But you don't want to burden a beginner with some fussy protocol when it's probably not necessary.

If it were my father I'd suggest he start with twice-weekly injections, and only go more often if that wasn't working well.

 

[Appassionato]

daily injections mimic our bodies daily production of T..true /false?

False. Nothing will ever mimic 100% what a healthy body is able to do. Forget about it.

Also the claim that daily would give you less aromatizion has been proven absolutely the opposite for me.
As low as 7.5 mg per day of enanthate, spiked my E2 to 61 pg\mL, and gave me a pretty bad back acne that I never had with other protocols, apart from HCG.
Total T was roughly the same at through compared to a twice a week injections protocol. Also DHT a bit lower.
On the contrary, E2 runs on the 30s with bi-weekly injections, and DHT is a bit higher.

Don't listen to what people are saying on FB.
There's a lot of hype about new protocols and this is where new slogans get born.
Now it's "daily will mimic the physiological T production". Before it was "you need HCG to backfill the pathways" or "your SHBG needs to mirror your E2 levels".

God knows what's next.

 

[DragonBits]

Im more than here to listen,but you just arent providing evidence for your point of view
provide pros and cons of each?
-you and others have yet to show dailyz arent needed and or can be harmful

daily injections mimic our bodies daily production of T..true /false?
1x aweek dosing causes a spike and subsequent fall of T levels/true false?

from my point of view all i see is "listen to me but im not giving evidence, but you are wrong"

There is no way to mimic natural testosterone production, which occurs in pulses that go on all day long but increase at night.

Personally, I prefer Nebido and injections only once every 10-14 weeks, but if I didn't do that, I would go for either daily or EOD of test cyp.

I don't see anything wrong physically starting on daily injections, but as others have pointed out, it may mentally get to be too much of a bother.

I am 67.

 

[Mountain Man]

Agree with Vince. Start slow. Older guys, especially over 60 do well, at least in my opinion, and don’t need a lot other than testosterone. Too many guys are not reading their own reactions to their protocol. I am on 140 cypionate per week. I do not notice any highs and low, I feel pretty good all the time. I got on at age 62 and am 3.5 years into TRT. No issues. Bloodwork every 6 months. I do brief, intense workouts combining resistance work one day, cardio the next for 30 to 45 minutes, eat pretty clean, no drugs, 7-8 hours sleep, sex 3-4 times per week. It doesn’t have to be complicated, nor should it be. Keep it simple, have him put in the work.

 

[slicktop]

The possible harm in starting with a daily schedule is the greater risk of injection fatigue. Daily injections of testosterone cypionate/enanthate do not mimic natural daily production: you end up with dead flat testosterone levels, so one might as well do EOD instead, which also gives pretty flat levels—my testosterone varied only a few percent on this protocol. Mimicking a normal diurnal rhythm is actually pretty tricky, though I think I'm pretty close with a combination of daily enanthate and propionate. But you don't want to burden a beginner with some fussy protocol when it's probably not necessary.

If it were my father I'd suggest he start with twice-weekly injections, and only go more often if that wasn't working well.

As much as I'm an advocate for dailies just because it works for me, I agree with all of the above AND I'll admit that I'd do EOD myself if I didn't have ADD+CRS. I did fine on EOD, but I couldn't consistently remember if I had injected the day before or not. I work a busy job in engineering with lots of deadlines and subdeadlines, have two boys 13 years apart, workout 5 days a week on average, travel at least one weekend a month- I didn't have room on my plate for one more "revolving" thing to track, it HAD to be regular. It's just easier for me to include it in my daily routine so I don't forget, and I've had no downsides. I advocate every 3.5 for a starter because twice a week does well for most men, and it's easy to remember. Pick one morning and one night 3 days apart, and stick to it. I did Sunday morning and Wednesday night because it meant that I just needed to pack one shot for the weekend if I were hunting or camping, and I'm never not home on Wednesday night. Best of luck to your father!

 

[blinkyvx]

so arguemtns i hear against ED dosing..
-its a hassle to do
- the positives i have read may not be true

Mostly its inconvenient im some peoples views, but nothing negative health wise.

Have to let him decide after he does some injections andtracks his symptoms for a month or so

 

[at15]

False. Nothing will ever mimic 100% what a healthy body is able to do. Forget about it.

Also the claim that daily would give you less aromatizion has been proven absolutely the opposite for me.
As low as 7.5 mg per day of enanthate, spiked my E2 to 61 pg\mL, and gave me a pretty bad back acne that I never had with other protocols, apart from HCG.
Total T was roughly the same at through compared to a twice a week injections protocol. Also DHT a bit lower.
On the contrary, E2 runs on the 30s with bi-weekly injections, and DHT is a bit higher.

Don't listen to what people are saying on FB.
There's a lot of hype about new protocols and this is where new slogans get born.
Now it's "daily will mimic the physiological T production". Before it was "you need HCG to backfill the pathways" or "your SHBG needs to mirror your E2 levels".

God knows what's next.

what were your weekly dose totals on those protocols.

this is why im trying sustanon every day, variation everyday while maintaining some stability in the background.

 

[Appassionato]

what were your weekly dose totals on those protocols.

this is why im trying sustanon every day, variation everyday while maintaining some stability in the background.

7.5mg x 7 = 52.5 mg weekly
40mg x 2 = 80 mg weekly

So, even with way less T, my E2 was more than the double. It didn't make any sense to me back then, but that was it.

What's the half life of Sustanon?
What about aromatization? More or less than T enanthate?

 

[Cataceous]

7.5mg x 7 = 52.5 mg weekly
40mg x 2 = 80 mg weekly

So, even with way less T, my E2 was more than the double. It didn't make any sense to me back then, but that was it.

What's the half life of Sustanon?
What about aromatization? More or less than T enanthate?

Unless you had several measurements confirming the estradiol results, I would suspect a lab error or other anomaly.

I haven't seen any firm agreement on the apparent half-life of Sustanon. Maybe one or two weeks based on this set of measurements:

[R]
Average estradiol production is probably going to be proportional to the average dose of testosterone, regardless of the esters involved. Peak and trough levels will vary, driven by serum testosterone levels, which in turn are driven by the absorption rate of the exogenous testosterone.