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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
Short vs long esters
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<blockquote data-quote="ivkonst2017" data-source="post: 199779" data-attributes="member: 42532"><p>I really understand all the points you are making and try correlate them to my case. But I also try to cross-reference them with the content I've seen or read online from the experienced TRT physicians, the use-cases of people I've read on the forums and the studies I've seen. I dont want to show disrespect, just want to further elaborate on some of the things you are saying regarding my specific case. As a start I can tell you for sure my body reacts very different than most of the people regarding HRT. I envy the people who just inject 200mg of test once a week and feel awesome. I know the majority of TRT users are like that, or at least I've met online a lot and in person few of them.</p><p></p><p> With that being said I have a few questions for you:</p><p></p><p>If every protocol is needed to be given 2-3 months to asses after the initial 8 weeks, what would be the reason when I started TRT with sustanon in November 2019 I got very quick huge improvements in the means of 2-4 weeks, and in the first 3 months everything was great, UNTIL I stopped absorbing sub-q and my levels fell significantly in a matter of weeks on the same dose without a protocol change? </p><p></p><p>I think this was the first pitfall. I know you are proponent of sub-q injections, but when my stomach was full of nodules everywhere my levels fell with 40 percent and the way I felt transferred from from God-like to like pre-TRT. </p><p></p><p>I then tried sub-q enanthate(8 weeks) and shallow IM UGL cyionate protocol(8 weeks) achieving levels of 800-1000 when for the corresponding dose of 160mg per week I was expecting at least 1300. Also I felt way worse on enan and cyp compared to the sustanon on the fallen levels. </p><p><strong>When my levels on sustanon fell I just started to feel pretty much like before TRT, but on the long single esters I felt UNKNOWN apathy and sluggishness and the further I was getting into their protocols the worse I felt</strong>, to the point in the last week of the sub-q enanthate protocol I was falling asleep at work and almost got kicked out of my job. After that I tried scrotal cream, held on that only 3-4 weeks because I got from it terrible unheard of before anxiety and panic attacks, I've never had panic attacks in my life.</p><p></p><p>Then somebody suggested to me to try sustanon IM and at that point my test levels climbed quickly and the way I felt abruptly improved. I quickly got improvements, in a matter of 3-4 weeks even less and started to feel really great, not like the first 2-3 months of TRT, but lets say 80 percent of that.</p><p></p><p>And now 2-3 months ago I decided to try to ease my life and reduce a life-long sequence of deep IM injections, which was the whole point of transferring to enanthate. <strong>But I experience the same type of sluggishness I got before on the long single esters</strong>, this time is not as bad because I guess Im doing IM.</p><p></p><p>We both agree my test levels are too high, but isnt it expected this to lead to something like agressivness, anxiety, feeling tense, hyped, sleeps issues and so on?</p><p> But instead I feel apathy and sluggishness, zero motivation to do anything, to talk to people and so on... <strong>Provided this heads that way, do you believe that after 2-3 months of investment of time which would be a terrible tornment for me something magical will happen and at some point I will start feeling completely different? </strong></p><p>Investing so much time in feeling sluggish and apathetic is a great investment and it may cost me important things in my life. At that current mental state I feel incapable of dealing with hard and stressful situations and as we know life of everyone has them. My life situation at the moment is relatively easy, but still there are moments from time to time when I need to pull out my best and act accordingly. </p><p></p><p>Also can you give me some reference for the 2-3 months period like a content from a TRT physicians somewhere online? I mean I've watched most of the content TRT doctors put online, I've watched doctors with contradictory to each other opinions about things like estrogen, HCG and so on but all of them claim to asses a protocol on 6-8 weeks and I've never seen someone mentioning a need to wait another 2-3 months if the patient feels crappy. If there is such reference I will thoroughly examine it. I do not mean to put disrespect to you, just if I'm gonna make a strong investment in something I look for at least 2 credible opinions.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand provided every time I've started sustanon<strong> I GOT QUICK IMPROVEMENTS</strong> do you think there might be some action of it that stimulates my endocrine or nervous system to make me feel good, action that is not present from the slow steady release of the single long esters? We know sustanon is very different with all of its downsides like being very difficult to dial in.</p><p></p><p>Do you also think switching to enanthate with different oil may lead to improvement?</p><p></p><p>I see some people on this forum combining propionate with cypionate, do you think their cases may have some correlation to mine?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ivkonst2017, post: 199779, member: 42532"] I really understand all the points you are making and try correlate them to my case. But I also try to cross-reference them with the content I've seen or read online from the experienced TRT physicians, the use-cases of people I've read on the forums and the studies I've seen. I dont want to show disrespect, just want to further elaborate on some of the things you are saying regarding my specific case. As a start I can tell you for sure my body reacts very different than most of the people regarding HRT. I envy the people who just inject 200mg of test once a week and feel awesome. I know the majority of TRT users are like that, or at least I've met online a lot and in person few of them. With that being said I have a few questions for you: If every protocol is needed to be given 2-3 months to asses after the initial 8 weeks, what would be the reason when I started TRT with sustanon in November 2019 I got very quick huge improvements in the means of 2-4 weeks, and in the first 3 months everything was great, UNTIL I stopped absorbing sub-q and my levels fell significantly in a matter of weeks on the same dose without a protocol change? I think this was the first pitfall. I know you are proponent of sub-q injections, but when my stomach was full of nodules everywhere my levels fell with 40 percent and the way I felt transferred from from God-like to like pre-TRT. I then tried sub-q enanthate(8 weeks) and shallow IM UGL cyionate protocol(8 weeks) achieving levels of 800-1000 when for the corresponding dose of 160mg per week I was expecting at least 1300. Also I felt way worse on enan and cyp compared to the sustanon on the fallen levels. [B]When my levels on sustanon fell I just started to feel pretty much like before TRT, but on the long single esters I felt UNKNOWN apathy and sluggishness and the further I was getting into their protocols the worse I felt[/B], to the point in the last week of the sub-q enanthate protocol I was falling asleep at work and almost got kicked out of my job. After that I tried scrotal cream, held on that only 3-4 weeks because I got from it terrible unheard of before anxiety and panic attacks, I've never had panic attacks in my life. Then somebody suggested to me to try sustanon IM and at that point my test levels climbed quickly and the way I felt abruptly improved. I quickly got improvements, in a matter of 3-4 weeks even less and started to feel really great, not like the first 2-3 months of TRT, but lets say 80 percent of that. And now 2-3 months ago I decided to try to ease my life and reduce a life-long sequence of deep IM injections, which was the whole point of transferring to enanthate. [B]But I experience the same type of sluggishness I got before on the long single esters[/B], this time is not as bad because I guess Im doing IM. We both agree my test levels are too high, but isnt it expected this to lead to something like agressivness, anxiety, feeling tense, hyped, sleeps issues and so on? But instead I feel apathy and sluggishness, zero motivation to do anything, to talk to people and so on... [B]Provided this heads that way, do you believe that after 2-3 months of investment of time which would be a terrible tornment for me something magical will happen and at some point I will start feeling completely different? [/B] Investing so much time in feeling sluggish and apathetic is a great investment and it may cost me important things in my life. At that current mental state I feel incapable of dealing with hard and stressful situations and as we know life of everyone has them. My life situation at the moment is relatively easy, but still there are moments from time to time when I need to pull out my best and act accordingly. Also can you give me some reference for the 2-3 months period like a content from a TRT physicians somewhere online? I mean I've watched most of the content TRT doctors put online, I've watched doctors with contradictory to each other opinions about things like estrogen, HCG and so on but all of them claim to asses a protocol on 6-8 weeks and I've never seen someone mentioning a need to wait another 2-3 months if the patient feels crappy. If there is such reference I will thoroughly examine it. I do not mean to put disrespect to you, just if I'm gonna make a strong investment in something I look for at least 2 credible opinions. On the other hand provided every time I've started sustanon[B] I GOT QUICK IMPROVEMENTS[/B] do you think there might be some action of it that stimulates my endocrine or nervous system to make me feel good, action that is not present from the slow steady release of the single long esters? We know sustanon is very different with all of its downsides like being very difficult to dial in. Do you also think switching to enanthate with different oil may lead to improvement? I see some people on this forum combining propionate with cypionate, do you think their cases may have some correlation to mine? [/QUOTE]
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Short vs long esters
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