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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
Short vs long esters
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<blockquote data-quote="madman" data-source="post: 199758" data-attributes="member: 13851"><p><strong><em>As described in my other thread I transferred from sustanon to <u>enanthate 9 weeks ago</u>. <u>I felt good in week 5</u>, but now I feel bad and I feel bad in a very specific way that worries me because it is FAMILIAR. Last summer I was on enanthate on a very different protocol and had way lower test levels than now. <u>But now I experience VERY SIMILAR negative to the last summer when I tried 8-9 weeks of enanthate</u>.</em></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>The negative I experience is APATHY and SLUGGISHNESS. Hard to explain, but every time I've tried a protocol on this enanthate and one time I tried<u> 8 weeks on UGL cypionate(no pharma cyp here)</u> I felt these negatives.</strong> <strong>BASICALLY EVERY TIME I"VE TRIED A SINGLE LONG ESTER</strong>. <strong><em>And I've tried different dosages, different test levels, IM and sub q(sub q felt even worse). Very different than how you are supposed to feel on testosterone, right?</em></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>I know madman said when trying a new protocol one needs to wait a few months, but every time Ive started sustanon things happen in a matter of weeks for me... <u>And also what I've read from the forums and heard from the knowledgeable doctors 7-8 weeks they say is enough time to asses a protocol</u>. To be honest I just want to find a protocol that works for me and focus on other things in my life and forget about all this TRT stuff <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" /> I feel mentally tired of all this...</strong></p><p><strong>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</strong></p><p></p><p>Again think what you will and as I have stated numerous times the first 6 weeks means nothing when looking at the bigger picture.</p><p></p><p>Hormones will be in FLUX during the weeks leading up until blood levels STABILIZE (4-6 weeks when using enanthate/cypionate esters) during this transition the body is trying to ADJUST and even then once blood levels have stabilized it will take another 2-3 months for the body to fully adapt and this is the CRITICAL TIME PERIOD when one should gauge how they truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms.</p><p></p><p>The first 6 let alone 8 weeks are misleading and where many make the mistake of trying to gauge how they feel and whether the protocol was a success or failure!</p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, most expect to feel great overall 6 weeks in let alone experience the overall beneficial effects of healthy T levels and if such is not the case they go bat shit and start tweaking a f**king protocol (dose T/injection frequency), ester, IM to sub-q or vice versa.....you get the point a complete f**king mess, to say the least.</p><p></p><p>Top it all off that many have the herd mentality.....more T is better or the sob story.....I need to run absurdly high TT/FT levels to feel good and start jacking up their T-dose 6 weeks in because they do not feel well.</p><p></p><p>Looking over all your threads on here it is highly doubtful you have ever given your protocols a fighting chance.</p><p></p><p>On your current protocol, you are running an absurdly high trough TT which would have your trough FT through the roof, and if anything you need to look into lowering your T-dose let alone now you will have to wait another 4-6 weeks for blood levels to stabilize than 2-3 months to gauge how you truly feel overall.</p><p></p><p>If you are not willing to put in the time then you are going to be chasing your tail endlessly getting caught up on that never-ending merry-go-round.</p><p></p><p>Bad enough that many of the misinformed are so caught up in chasing/finding that so-called optimal.</p><p></p><p>See it all the time here on the forum.</p><p></p><p>People ranting/raving about a protocol and how they feel yet in many cases:</p><p></p><p><em><strong>*blood work is done too early (2-3 weeks of starting a protocol)</strong></em></p><p><em><strong></strong></em></p><p><em><strong>*switching their protocols (dose T/injection frequency), esters, IM to sub-q or vice versa left and right every 6 weeks if they do not feel good/great.</strong></em></p><p><em><strong></strong></em></p><p><em><strong>*blood work is done using inaccurate assays especially when it comes to <u>free</u> <u>testosterone</u> let alone e2.</strong></em></p><p><em><strong></strong></em></p><p><em><strong>*neanderthal mindset that more T is better</strong></em></p><p><em><strong></strong></em></p><p><em><strong>*high T = raging libido/titanium erections</strong></em></p><p></p><p><strong><em>*high T = OPTIMAL as in that fairytale everyone is chasing.....you know the one with raging libido/titanium erections 24/7, unlimited amounts of energy, stellar mood (Mr. Rogers neighborhood), packing on muscle like the hulk with the recovery abilities of wolverine.....LMFAO.</em></strong></p><p></p><p>Last but not least and the one that truly puts the icing on the cake</p><p></p><p><strong>*Lack the understanding of how exogenous T works.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Hormones will be in FLUX during the weeks leading up until blood levels STABILIZE (4-6 weeks when using enanthate/cypionate esters) during this transition the body is trying to ADJUST and even then once blood levels have stabilized it will take another 2-3 months for the body to fully adapt and this is the CRITICAL TIME PERIOD when one should gauge how they truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</strong></p><p><strong>I know madman said when trying a new protocol one needs to wait a few months, but every time Ive started sustanon things happen in a matter of weeks for me... <u><strong>A</strong>nd also what I've read from the forums and heard from the knowledgeable doctors 7-8 weeks they say is enough time to asses a protocol</u>.</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p>Most doctors in the know would wait 12 weeks after starting a protocol or tweaking a protocol (dose T/injection frequency).</p><p></p><p>When blood work is done 6 weeks in we want to know how one reacts to T dose and where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has trough TT/FT/e2 levels let alone other blood markers as T levels may be too high or too low.</p><p></p><p>If T levels are healthy and one feels descent then you would need to give it a few months to truly gauge how you feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-T symptoms.</p><p></p><p>If T levels are too low resulting in a lack of any improvement then the dose of T would be increased.</p><p></p><p>If T levels are too high resulting in one feeling unwell/experiencing sides then the dose of T would be lowered.</p><p></p><p>Sure during the first 6 weeks of starting trt let alone tweaking a protocol, it is common for many during this transition to experience what we call the <u><em><strong>honeymoon period where there may be a strong increase in libido/erections and overall euphoric feeling due to increasing T levels/dopamine</strong></em></u><strong><em>.</em></strong></p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, this is temporary and short-lived for most as the body will eventually adjust.</p><p></p><p><strong><u>It is also very common for many men to experience ups/downs in energy/mood/libido/erections/recovery </u><em><u><strong>dur</strong>ing the transition as the body is trying to adjust which can be very misleading</u>.</em></strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="madman, post: 199758, member: 13851"] [B][I]As described in my other thread I transferred from sustanon to [U]enanthate 9 weeks ago[/U]. [U]I felt good in week 5[/U], but now I feel bad and I feel bad in a very specific way that worries me because it is FAMILIAR. Last summer I was on enanthate on a very different protocol and had way lower test levels than now. [U]But now I experience VERY SIMILAR negative to the last summer when I tried 8-9 weeks of enanthate[/U].[/I] The negative I experience is APATHY and SLUGGISHNESS. Hard to explain, but every time I've tried a protocol on this enanthate and one time I tried[U] 8 weeks on UGL cypionate(no pharma cyp here)[/U] I felt these negatives.[/B] [B]BASICALLY EVERY TIME I"VE TRIED A SINGLE LONG ESTER[/B]. [B][I]And I've tried different dosages, different test levels, IM and sub q(sub q felt even worse). Very different than how you are supposed to feel on testosterone, right?[/I] I know madman said when trying a new protocol one needs to wait a few months, but every time Ive started sustanon things happen in a matter of weeks for me... [U]And also what I've read from the forums and heard from the knowledgeable doctors 7-8 weeks they say is enough time to asses a protocol[/U]. To be honest I just want to find a protocol that works for me and focus on other things in my life and forget about all this TRT stuff :( I feel mentally tired of all this... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/B] Again think what you will and as I have stated numerous times the first 6 weeks means nothing when looking at the bigger picture. Hormones will be in FLUX during the weeks leading up until blood levels STABILIZE (4-6 weeks when using enanthate/cypionate esters) during this transition the body is trying to ADJUST and even then once blood levels have stabilized it will take another 2-3 months for the body to fully adapt and this is the CRITICAL TIME PERIOD when one should gauge how they truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms. The first 6 let alone 8 weeks are misleading and where many make the mistake of trying to gauge how they feel and whether the protocol was a success or failure! Unfortunately, most expect to feel great overall 6 weeks in let alone experience the overall beneficial effects of healthy T levels and if such is not the case they go bat shit and start tweaking a f**king protocol (dose T/injection frequency), ester, IM to sub-q or vice versa.....you get the point a complete f**king mess, to say the least. Top it all off that many have the herd mentality.....more T is better or the sob story.....I need to run absurdly high TT/FT levels to feel good and start jacking up their T-dose 6 weeks in because they do not feel well. Looking over all your threads on here it is highly doubtful you have ever given your protocols a fighting chance. On your current protocol, you are running an absurdly high trough TT which would have your trough FT through the roof, and if anything you need to look into lowering your T-dose let alone now you will have to wait another 4-6 weeks for blood levels to stabilize than 2-3 months to gauge how you truly feel overall. If you are not willing to put in the time then you are going to be chasing your tail endlessly getting caught up on that never-ending merry-go-round. Bad enough that many of the misinformed are so caught up in chasing/finding that so-called optimal. See it all the time here on the forum. People ranting/raving about a protocol and how they feel yet in many cases: [I][B]*blood work is done too early (2-3 weeks of starting a protocol) *switching their protocols (dose T/injection frequency), esters, IM to sub-q or vice versa left and right every 6 weeks if they do not feel good/great. *blood work is done using inaccurate assays especially when it comes to [U]free[/U] [U]testosterone[/U] let alone e2. *neanderthal mindset that more T is better *high T = raging libido/titanium erections[/B][/I] [B][I]*high T = OPTIMAL as in that fairytale everyone is chasing.....you know the one with raging libido/titanium erections 24/7, unlimited amounts of energy, stellar mood (Mr. Rogers neighborhood), packing on muscle like the hulk with the recovery abilities of wolverine.....LMFAO.[/I][/B] Last but not least and the one that truly puts the icing on the cake [B]*Lack the understanding of how exogenous T works. Hormones will be in FLUX during the weeks leading up until blood levels STABILIZE (4-6 weeks when using enanthate/cypionate esters) during this transition the body is trying to ADJUST and even then once blood levels have stabilized it will take another 2-3 months for the body to fully adapt and this is the CRITICAL TIME PERIOD when one should gauge how they truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I know madman said when trying a new protocol one needs to wait a few months, but every time Ive started sustanon things happen in a matter of weeks for me... [U][B]A[/B]nd also what I've read from the forums and heard from the knowledgeable doctors 7-8 weeks they say is enough time to asses a protocol[/U].[/B] Most doctors in the know would wait 12 weeks after starting a protocol or tweaking a protocol (dose T/injection frequency). When blood work is done 6 weeks in we want to know how one reacts to T dose and where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has trough TT/FT/e2 levels let alone other blood markers as T levels may be too high or too low. If T levels are healthy and one feels descent then you would need to give it a few months to truly gauge how you feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-T symptoms. If T levels are too low resulting in a lack of any improvement then the dose of T would be increased. If T levels are too high resulting in one feeling unwell/experiencing sides then the dose of T would be lowered. Sure during the first 6 weeks of starting trt let alone tweaking a protocol, it is common for many during this transition to experience what we call the [U][I][B]honeymoon period where there may be a strong increase in libido/erections and overall euphoric feeling due to increasing T levels/dopamine[/B][/I][/U][B][I].[/I][/B] Unfortunately, this is temporary and short-lived for most as the body will eventually adjust. [B][U]It is also very common for many men to experience ups/downs in energy/mood/libido/erections/recovery [/U][I][U][B]dur[/B]ing the transition as the body is trying to adjust which can be very misleading[/U].[/I][/B] [/QUOTE]
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Short vs long esters
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