Sensitive Estradiol high what to do about i

[klawler9]

I take twice a week test cyp injections at around .25mg each injection. That's all I take. Most recent results

Total T = 664 ng/dl
Free T = 17.8n pg/mL
Sensitive E = 35 pg/mL

I do not have a recent SHBG test and after reading these forums I guess that's something I should test for next time.

Do i treat the high E levels? Erections are good not great. I generally feel good not great but the stubborn body fat around the chest, hips and back of legs make me think the high Estradiol levels are a contributor to this. If I lower it slightly to whatever you guys think is optimal would that make sense?

Thanks!

 

[Vince Carter]

Thinking of treating a 35 which isn't high would be a mistake on your part without at a minimum your SHBG, need that to evaluate where you're Free T, and Free E, might be sitting. Please edit with the free T range from your labs and have you had SHBG tested, at all, since youve been on TRT?

 

[Vince Carter]

and clarify your Cyp dose....

.25mg...???

 

[klawler9]

Free T is 17.8 pg/mL and sensitive estradiol number is 35. They did not test for "free E" which i have never heard of before.

Test Cyp injections every 3.5 days of .25ml (sorry wrote mg).

I do not have a current SHBG but all the tests in the past have had it in the 20-25 range so tight in middle of "normal.

All of my normal estradiol tests have been out of range high so I had the sensitive estradiol test done based on what I've read on this site.

 

[Weasel]

Your numbers look good. I wouldnt worry about E2 at the moment. You'll have a very hard time lowering E2 from that number without crashing it. And believe me, crashed e2 makes you feel like you are honest to god dying.

 

[MarkM]

Are these LabCorp lab results? Kind of looks like it to me. It would be nice if you could post the ranges on the labs for Total T, Free T, and the Estradiol Sensitive, at least Free T and Estradiol Sensitive.

Even if your lab results are LabCorp with a rnage of 8.0 - 35.0 I would not consider your Estradiol high unless you have serious symptoms which I am realy not seeing based on what you have posted? Are you extremely emotional, have tender/itchy nipples, or lumps under your nipples? Do you have ED or a lack of morning wood?

Are you exercising or working out? Do you have a sedentary life style? Have you had a full thyroid panel test?

My E2 is 35 and I feel really good and I don't take anything to curb it.

 

[klawler9]

Labs are what is recommended here (DiscountLabs). Don't have any other symptoms really. Just always see the high number (35 is very top of reference range) and have fat in areas I wish I didn't. I do crossfit up to 5 days per week. Still drink and haven't got diet fully dialed but not bad either I do intermittent fasting most days unless I've gone a little too hard at the gym. I will leave it alone but my first Dr who put me on this protocol also put me on AI. I ended up barely taking it (maybe 1/10 or less the recommended dose per day) until it was gone. I was afraid of crashing my E etc.

 

[Vince Carter]

Free T is 17.8 pg/mL and sensitive estradiol number is 35. They did not test for "free E" which i have never heard of before.

Test Cyp injections every 3.5 days of .25ml (sorry wrote mg).

I do not have a current SHBG but all the tests in the past have had it in the 20-25 range so tight in middle of "normal.

All of my normal estradiol tests have been out of range high so I had the sensitive estradiol test done based on what I've read on this site.

You see...low(er) SHBG such as this would typically translate to Free T being very good, which yours is. THis also means because SHBG binds the same way to Estrogen that you have more free Estrogen circulating to work in your body, the same way Free T does.
My own little theory of working on myself....youre Sensitive Estradiol should perhaps be in close proximity to your SHBG value.

I would encourage you to test that "Estradiol, Free", if money allows you to do so. Run that and the sensitive Estradiol test together. I would be that you see the Free E at or above the lab range. The sensitive probably may need to be closer to ~20.

Will that solve your problem, may be may be not but I do think by the numbers, that your E is too high for your SHBG.

 

[Vince Carter]

I would not add an AI but would split from E3.5D to EOD injections using the same dose just split it up more which *should* bring down your E.

 

[KenLowT]

I take twice a week test cyp injections at around .25mg each injection. That's all I take. Most recent results

Total T = 664 ng/dl
Free T = 17.8n pg/mL
Sensitive E = 35 pg/mL

I do not have a recent SHBG test and after reading these forums I guess that's something I should test for next time.

Do i treat the high E levels? Erections are good not great. I generally feel good not great but the stubborn body fat around the chest, hips and back of legs make me think the high Estradiol levels are a contributor to this. If I lower it slightly to whatever you guys think is optimal would that make sense?

Thanks!

You and I have very similar numbers. I am taking 100mg a week, cut into two 50mg injections per week. My Total T is exactly like yours, but your Free T is higher, mine is at 12. My Estradiol sensitive is at 39. My libido stinks and I don't have confidence in my erections though so I thought it could be the estradiol since I have a high BF even though I eat well and workout 6x per week. Just like others suggested I was thinking of going to EOD injections as my SHBG is sitting at 29.5, but I'm trying to pinpoint the reason behind the low libido. Is it estradiol or is it my thyroid? I have my first consult with a doc at Defy on Wednesday so I'm hoping to get more answers then before messing with my protocol. Good luck.

 

[klawler9]

I would not add an AI but would split from E3.5D to EOD injections using the same dose just split it up more which *should* bring down your E.

the other day I took a full weeks dose all at once and felt really good for two or 3 days. Still feel fine but it was a noticeable difference. Your suggesting I go to an even smaller dose and do sit more EOD. I may try that but I do wonder if that's too many injections.

Any thoughts on how I should inject? I do it in my thigh usually and go in at a 45 degree angle so intramuscular. I've tried in the stomach fat but didn't notice a difference. Shoulder and buttocks also but I keep getting different needed sizes and they are are to get sometimes so the larger ones I only like doing in the thigh.

 

[klawler9]

You and I have very similar numbers. I am taking 100mg a week, cut into two 50mg injections per week. My Total T is exactly like yours, but your Free T is higher, mine is at 12. My Estradiol sensitive is at 39. My libido stinks and I don't have confidence in my erections though so I thought it could be the estradiol since I have a high BF even though I eat well and workout 6x per week. Just like others suggested I was thinking of going to EOD injections as my SHBG is sitting at 29.5, but I'm trying to pinpoint the reason behind the low libido. Is it estradiol or is it my thyroid? I have my first consult with a doc at Defy on Wednesday so I'm hoping to get more answers then before messing with my protocol. Good luck.

not sure where I read this but I think the ratio of free t to estradiol is becoming increasingly important to libido. I wonder if there is a magic ratio number. I was thinking if I could keep the free t where it is and get the estradiol down a bit it could be better but I don't want to play with fire....

 

[MarkM]

not sure where I read this but I think the ratio of free t to estradiol is becoming increasingly important to libido. I wonder if there is a magic ratio number. I was thinking if I could keep the free t where it is and get the estradiol down a bit it could be better but I don't want to play with fire....

Nelson Vergel states that the T:E ratio should probably be a range of 14 to 20, within reason. So, using your numbers:

664/20 = 33.2
664/14 = 47.4

Based on that your E2 should run in a range of 33.2 to 47.4. You seem to fall into that range since your E2 is 35. That same ratio would mean that someone with Total T of 1,000 would have an E2 range of 50.0 to 71.4.

My ratio is just under 30 and I feel pretty good personally. My Total T is 1050 and my E2 is 35.3. I think I feel pretty good with my E2 between 22 and 35 and those numbers really don't fit into the ratio above. Based on the ratio my E2 should run between 52.5 and 75. As T goes, so goes E. It makes sense that if you are running higher levels of T your body should naturally run high levels of E. My E2 did run 67 at times and I felt just fine. That would have put me within the ratio.

This whole E2 is somewhat difficult to figure out. At first it seemed everything I heard or read condemned any level of E2 over 20. But the more I read and understand I don't think one should treat E2 at any level unless therer are symptoms.

Jay Campbell, Jim Brown, Dr. Keith Nichols, and others have E2 levels over 60 and they state that they feel great and use no AI to try and control it. Just shows how we are all different.

 

[klawler9]

Nelson Vergel states that the T:E ratio should probably be a range of 14 to 20, within reason. So, using your numbers:

664/20 = 33.2
664/14 = 47.4

Based on that your E2 should run in a range of 33.2 to 47.4. You seem to fall into that range since your E2 is 35. That same ratio would mean that someone with Total T of 1,000 would have an E2 range of 50.0 to 71.4.

My ratio is just under 30 and I feel pretty good personally. My Total T is 1050 and my E2 is 35.3. I think I feel pretty good with my E2 between 22 and 35 and those numbers really don't fit into the ratio above. Based on the ratio my E2 should run between 52.5 and 75. As T goes, so goes E. It makes sense that if you are running higher levels of T your body should naturally run high levels of E. My E2 did run 67 at times and I felt just fine. That would have put me within the ratio.

This whole E2 is somewhat difficult to figure out. At first it seemed everything I heard or read condemned any level of E2 over 20. But the more I read and understand I don't think one should treat E2 at any level unless therer are symptoms.

Jay Campbell, Jim Brown, Dr. Keith Nichols, and others have E2 levels over 60 and they state that they feel great and use no AI to try and control it. Just shows how we are all different.

Thank you. Im not fully following the calculations though. Is there a place on this site (sticky) that goes through this? Very helpful advice in the end Im not probably going to worry about it for now.

 

[Vince Carter]

T divided by E

 

[MarkM]

Thank you. Im not fully following the calculations though. Is there a place on this site (sticky) that goes through this? Very helpful advice in the end Im not probably going to worry about it for now.

664 is your Total T so to find what the E2 would be with a ratio of 20 just divide 20 into 664 and you get 33.2. Same process to find out what the E2 would be at a ratio of 14. 664 divided by 14 = 47.4. So you would have a range of 33.2 to 47.4 for your E2 based on the Total T of 664, based off this ratio.

664 Total T divided by 20 (ratio) equals E2 of 33.2
664 Total T divided by 14 (ratio) equals E2 of 47.4
So based on your Total T of 664 and using the ratio of 14 to 20 you should have an E2 level of 33.2 to 47.4.

You can also calculate using your E2 to get the ratio.
664 Total T divided by 35 (your E2) equals 18.97 (your T:E ratio)

 

[Vince Carter]

An E2 over 60 just doesn't paint the whole picture which is SHBG which binds to E just as it does to T, and likewise Free T goes with Free E. Any guy running an E2 like that has to be concerned about the Free Estrogen. People have tried to tell me ~60 aint bad...like in this thread.
When I ran in the 60s I was a real a-hole (some would say I still am), acne covered my back and scalp, I was awake half the night sweating in a 61 degree bedroom with a fan on, ED, you name it. Point is a number to work toward is garbage and so is the ratio. Its merely coincidental when a guy points to the ratio and says they're doing well.

 

[klawler9]

664 is your Total T so to find what the E2 would be with a ratio of 20 just divide 20 into 664 and you get 33.2. Same process to find out what the E2 would be at a ratio of 14. 664 divided by 14 = 47.4. So you would have a range of 33.2 to 47.4 for your E2 based on the Total T of 664, based off this ratio.

664 Total T divided by 20 (ratio) equals E2 of 33.2
664 Total T divided by 14 (ratio) equals E2 of 47.4
So based on your Total T of 664 and using the ratio of 14 to 20 you should have an E2 level of 33.2 to 47.4.

You can also calculate using your E2 to get the ratio.
664 Total T divided by 35 (your E2) equals 18.97 (your T:E ratio)

Ok so we don’t have to convert total T to same units then? ng/mL vs pg/mL?

 

[MarkM]

Ok so we don’t have to convert total T to same units then? ng/mL vs pg/mL?

No sir.

 

[HealthMan]

I take twice a week test cyp injections at around .25mg each injection. That's all I take. Most recent results

Total T = 664 ng/dl
Free T = 17.8n pg/mL
Sensitive E = 35 pg/mL

I do not have a recent SHBG test and after reading these forums I guess that's something I should test for next time.

Do i treat the high E levels? Erections are good not great. I generally feel good not great but the stubborn body fat around the chest, hips and back of legs make me think the high Estradiol levels are a contributor to this. If I lower it slightly to whatever you guys think is optimal would that make sense?

Thanks!

In theory your estradiol is not high but everyone is different. Agree with Vince that you might wanna check your free estradiol. But again. TRT is about how you fell not merely numbers. You could try to introduce an AI - if your doctor agrees - and see how you feel with a lower estradiol. You could also try to inject more frequently.
My SHBG is low 20s and i feel best when my estradiol is in the low 20s. At high 20s low 30s I get gynecomastia for example.
Go by how you feel but also have in mind that lowering your estradiol too much can be detrimental. But at 35 e2 you are far from that so you have room to bring it lower and see how you feel.