SAMe Improves Fatigue, Depression, and Protects the Liver

[Nelson Vergel]

Hi Rabbit

Yes, you may feel better. So you may not have to increase your T dose. I am glad you liked my book.

 

[BigTex]

I had a bout of depression about 6 years ago when I retired. I used the SAMe raw powder and some pretty high doses. After about 6 weeks I could really feel a huge difference. It was like someone opened a window and let the sunlight shine in.

Now I will add to this information:

Najm, Wadie I et al. “S-adenosyl methionine (SAMe) versus celecoxib for the treatment of osteoarthritis symptoms: a double-blind cross-over trial. [ISRCTN36233495].” BMC musculoskeletal disorders vol. 5 6. 26 Feb. 2004, doi:10.1186/1471-2474-5-6

We compared the effectiveness of 1200 mg SAMe (600 mg twice daily) with 200 mg celecoxib (Celebrex 100 mg twice daily), to reduce pain and improve functional symptoms associated with OA of the knee. Each phase of the study was for a total of 8 weeks with one-week washout between the two phases.

Conclusion​

SAMe has a slower onset of action but is as effective as celecoxib in the management of symptoms of knee osteoarthritis. Longer studies are needed to evaluate the long-term effectiveness of SAMe and the optimal dose to be used.

Very exciting stuff for those of use who have osteoarthritis in the knee. I would imagine that might also be equally as effective for osteoarthritis in the shoulder.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I used the SAMe raw powder and some pretty high doses.

Thanks for sharing. What dose? How did it taste?

 

[BigTex]

I believed I had gradually worked up from 200mg x 2 to 1600mg/d going 800 in the am and 800 in the evening. It taste like a metallic citric acid. It is horrible. I had to mix it with sugar free beverage to kill the taste some. Has a bit of gastric burning at first but that subsided after a week. The raw powder is very difficult to weight out and work with because it absorbs water from the air and gets very sticky.at room temperature. It has to be kept cold. I still have around a kilo in the fridge. I will probably try it for osteoarthritis. Heck I am trying everything else, might as well.

 

[J2048b]

Thanks for sharing. What dose? How did it taste?

Sir what supps do u now take since ur first post in this thread?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Sir what supps do u now take since ur first post in this thread?

I take:

L-Carnitine 1000 mg once per day
Coenzyme Q-10 400 mg once per day
Digestive Enzymes before meals
NAC 500 mg twice per day
B complex once per night
Vitamin D 5000 IU morning time
Melatonin 5 mg gummies- two per night
Swanson Bacillus Coagulans (Lactobacillus Sporogenes) - Probiotic Supplement- 3 per day
Vitamin C-1000 mg twice per day
Magnesium L-threonate- 1000 mg per night
Glycine in water- 3 grams before bed

 

[J2048b]

I take:

L-Carnitine 1000 mg once per day
Coenzyme Q-10 400 mg once per day
Digestive Enzymes before meals
NAC 500 mg twice per day
B complex once per night
Vitamin D 5000 IU morning time
Melatonin 5 mg gummies- two per night
Swanson Bacillus Coagulans (Lactobacillus Sporogenes) - Probiotic Supplement- 3 per day
Vitamin C-1000 mg twice per day
Magnesium L-threonate- 1000 mg per night
Glycine in water- 3 grams before bed

So no more SAMe?

That magnesium really helps with deep sleep too, correct?

And whats the glycine do for ya?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Yes, no more SAMe. It is effective but, as a sulfur-based compound, it upsets my gut and gives me bad gas.

Glycine and magnesium (plus melatonin) to sleep.

Glycine for Sleep | Amino acids in our lives | Amino Acids | Ajinomoto Group Global Website - Eat Well, Live Well.

Glycine helps the body reach deep sleep more quickly. Glycine promotes good quality sleep so that you wake up in the morning refreshed, energized and ready to be active.

www.ajinomoto.com

 

[BigTex]

Sir what supps do u now take since ur first post in this thread?

I am going to assume you mean me? Anyway, here we go.

Daily---
1 baby aspirin
1 Senior formula multi-vitamin
2 calcium 1g/magnesium 500mg
1 DHEA 50mg
1 D3 5000iu
3 Omega 3 2000EPA/1500mg DHA
1 vitamin c 1000mg
1 quercetin 500mg
1 essential zinc 50mg
1 nattokinase 4000FUs
1 coq-10 400mg
2 glucosamine sulfate 1500mg
1 K2 100mg
1 tudca 750mg
1000iu injectable b-12 monthly

 

[J2048b]

Yes, no more SAMe. It is effective but, as a sulfur-based compound, it upsets my gut and gives me bad gas.

Glycine and magnesium (plus melatonin) to sleep.

Glycine for Sleep | Amino acids in our lives | Amino Acids | Ajinomoto Group Global Website - Eat Well, Live Well.

Glycine helps the body reach deep sleep more quickly. Glycine promotes good quality sleep so that you wake up in the morning refreshed, energized and ready to be active.

www.ajinomoto.com

Being sulfur based is what causes me to have issues as well, but i am still gunna start back up for the mood enhancement

What dosage and protocol do u recommend?

 

[J2048b]

I am going to assume you mean me? Anyway, here we go.

Daily---
1 baby aspirin
1 Senior formula multi-vitamin
2 calcium 1g/magnesium 500mg
1 DHEA 50mg
1 D3 5000iu
3 Omega 3 2000EPA/1500mg DHA
1 vitamin c 1000mg
1 quercetin 500mg
1 essential zinc 50mg
1 nattokinase 4000FUs
1 coq-10 400mg
2 glucosamine sulfate 1500mg
1 K2 100mg
1 tudca 750mg
1000iu injectable b-12 monthly

Awesome thanks what brands do u choose for the fish oils, k2, and tudca?

Does the b12 show its worth for the entire month? 1 inject per month?

Natto and k2 and aspirin? Id die, literally have nose bleeds if i take natto/serrapeptase for an extended period of time, its scary

 

[BigTex]

Awesome thanks what brands do u choose for the fish oils, k2, and tudca?

Does the b12 show its worth for the entire month? 1 inject per month?

Natto and k2 and aspirin? Id die, literally have nose bleeds if i take natto/serrapeptase for an extended period of time, its scary

Microingrediants brand Omega 3. The K2 is Now and the Tudca is self made caps from raw powder. I take the nattokinase because of its anti-atherosclerotic effect. I have very mild plaque in my left and right Internal carotid artery. My cardiologists also has me on ezetimibe 10 mg.

Been taking baby asprin for many years just for the hell of it......have no problem clotting. My cats scratch me all the time.

I also have taken Prolosec for many years. Prilosec can affect the absorption of calcium, folic acid and vitamin B-12, Do my doctor had me do the following protocol with injectable B-12:
100mcg daily for 6–7 days; then 100mcg every other day for 7 doses; then every 3–4 days for 2–3 weeks; then 100mcg - 1000mcg monthly for life. I also consume another 36.4ug of B-12, 836.4ug of folate and 3826.1mg of calcium on a daily basis. Seems to be working fine. I do blood work about every 3 -4 months.

 

[BigTex]

I did a little search through my files and found the dosing information for SAM-e for depression. I did use this and it worked well.

S-Adenosylmethionine (SAM-e or SAMe) is an amino acid. SAM-e was discovered in 1952 in Italy, where it is manufactured. Until recently, it was exceedingly expensive to produce, and therefore unavailable to the public, although it is well studied. SAM-e is sold as a prescription drug in most European countries, Russia, India and Mexico where it has been used to treat arthritis and depression but has not been approved by the FDA for sale in the USA or Canada. So it is sold as a food supplement in both the USA and Canada. Only Russia sells the injectable form Ademetionine 1,4- butanedisulfonate.

SAM-e is a naturally occurring compound that is present in tissues throughout the body. At the molecular level, SAM-e is involved in various metabolic pathways, including transmethylation, transsulfuration and aminopropylation (e.g. in the production of polyamines, such as spermidine and spermine, from putrescine).

In the body, SAM-e is synthesized from an amino acid, methionine, and a triphosphate nucleotide, ATP. SAM-e has been tested in numerous clinical trials for the treatment of various ailments, including arthritis, liver disease and depression.

SAM-e comes in the S-Adenosylmethionine tosylate disulfate form meaning that 200mg of this substance will yield 100mg of the tosylate disulfate an inactive stabilizing salt and 100mg of actual active component S-Adenosylmethionine. SAM-e supplementation was initially considered impractical, due to the instability of the SAM-e ion during manufacturing, shipping and storage. Eventually stable salts of SAM-e were developed (such as SAM-e tosylate disulfate). So this for is active for 3 years stored at -20C.

• Depression. Taking SAM-e by mouth, as an injection, or as a shot seems to reduce symptoms of major depression. Several studies have shown that taking SAM-e by mouth can be beneficial and might be as effective as some prescription medications used for depression (tricyclic antidepressants). Some research also shows that taking SAM-e by mouth might be helpful for people who do not have a good response to a prescription antidepressant. Giving SAM-e as an injection or as a shot also seems to improve depression as effectively as some prescription medications used for depression. But lower doses of SAM-e (100-200 mg) might not improve depression scores in people with mild to moderate depression when given as an injection or a shot. SAM-e should not be taken in combination with a prescription antidepressant without the monitoring of a health professional.

Suggested dosing protocol for depression:
2 day – 400mg (200mg morning and afternoon)
9 days – 1000mg (500mg morning and afternoon)
9 days – 1200mg (600mg morning and afternoon)
42 days 1600mg (800mg morning and afternoon)
62 days total

Absorption
Investigators have found that SAM-e can be effectively released into the stomach and give rise to elevated SAM-e plasma levels and therefore, an enteric coating is not critical for achieving absorption. Best taken on an empty stomach as food effects absorption.

General Oral Dosing

• For depression: Up to 1600 mg of SAM-e daily in two divided doses for up to 8 weeks has been used alone or together with antidepressant medications. A combination product (DDM Metile, Omeopiacenza, Piacenza, Italy) containing 250 mg of SAM-e taken twice daily for 12 months has been used.
• For osteoarthritis: 600-1200 mg of SAM-e daily in up to three divided doses for up to 84 days has been used.
• For cirrhosis: 600 mg of SAM-e daily for one month has been used. A combination 30 mg of SAM-e plus 100 mcg of vitamin B12 six times daily for 30 days has been used.
• For fibromyalgia: 800 mg per of SAM-e daily in two divided doses for 6 weeks has been used.
• For conditions in which bile flow from the liver is slow or blocked (Intrahepatic cholestasis): 500 mg of SAM-e taken twice daily until delivery or 1600 mg taken daily in two divided doses for 2 weeks has been used.
• For sexual dysfunction: 400 mg of SAM-e taken twice daily for 2 weeks, then increased to 800 mg twice daily for another 6 weeks, has been used.

Side Effects
While SAM-e is a very safe product it can have a few mild side effects including:
• Nausea.
• Diarrhea.
• Headache.
• Anxiety.
• Gas.
• Swings from depression to intense energy (mania).

Warning - People diagnosed with bipolar disorder should not take SAM-e.

 

[J2048b]

I did a little search through my files and found the dosing information for SAM-e for depression. I did use this and it worked well.

S-Adenosylmethionine (SAM-e or SAMe) is an amino acid. SAM-e was discovered in 1952 in Italy, where it is manufactured. Until recently, it was exceedingly expensive to produce, and therefore unavailable to the public, although it is well studied. SAM-e is sold as a prescription drug in most European countries, Russia, India and Mexico where it has been used to treat arthritis and depression but has not been approved by the FDA for sale in the USA or Canada. So it is sold as a food supplement in both the USA and Canada. Only Russia sells the injectable form Ademetionine 1,4- butanedisulfonate.

SAM-e is a naturally occurring compound that is present in tissues throughout the body. At the molecular level, SAM-e is involved in various metabolic pathways, including transmethylation, transsulfuration and aminopropylation (e.g. in the production of polyamines, such as spermidine and spermine, from putrescine).

In the body, SAM-e is synthesized from an amino acid, methionine, and a triphosphate nucleotide, ATP. SAM-e has been tested in numerous clinical trials for the treatment of various ailments, including arthritis, liver disease and depression.

SAM-e comes in the S-Adenosylmethionine tosylate disulfate form meaning that 200mg of this substance will yield 100mg of the tosylate disulfate an inactive stabilizing salt and 100mg of actual active component S-Adenosylmethionine. SAM-e supplementation was initially considered impractical, due to the instability of the SAM-e ion during manufacturing, shipping and storage. Eventually stable salts of SAM-e were developed (such as SAM-e tosylate disulfate). So this for is active for 3 years stored at -20C.

• Depression. Taking SAM-e by mouth, as an injection, or as a shot seems to reduce symptoms of major depression. Several studies have shown that taking SAM-e by mouth can be beneficial and might be as effective as some prescription medications used for depression (tricyclic antidepressants). Some research also shows that taking SAM-e by mouth might be helpful for people who do not have a good response to a prescription antidepressant. Giving SAM-e as an injection or as a shot also seems to improve depression as effectively as some prescription medications used for depression. But lower doses of SAM-e (100-200 mg) might not improve depression scores in people with mild to moderate depression when given as an injection or a shot. SAM-e should not be taken in combination with a prescription antidepressant without the monitoring of a health professional.

Suggested dosing protocol for depression:
2 day – 400mg (200mg morning and afternoon)
9 days – 1000mg (500mg morning and afternoon)
9 days – 1200mg (600mg morning and afternoon)
42 days 1600mg (800mg morning and afternoon)
62 days total

Absorption
Investigators have found that SAM-e can be effectively released into the stomach and give rise to elevated SAM-e plasma levels and therefore, an enteric coating is not critical for achieving absorption. Best taken on an empty stomach as food effects absorption.

General Oral Dosing

• For depression: Up to 1600 mg of SAM-e daily in two divided doses for up to 8 weeks has been used alone or together with antidepressant medications. A combination product (DDM Metile, Omeopiacenza, Piacenza, Italy) containing 250 mg of SAM-e taken twice daily for 12 months has been used.
• For osteoarthritis: 600-1200 mg of SAM-e daily in up to three divided doses for up to 84 days has been used.
• For cirrhosis: 600 mg of SAM-e daily for one month has been used. A combination 30 mg of SAM-e plus 100 mcg of vitamin B12 six times daily for 30 days has been used.
• For fibromyalgia: 800 mg per of SAM-e daily in two divided doses for 6 weeks has been used.
• For conditions in which bile flow from the liver is slow or blocked (Intrahepatic cholestasis): 500 mg of SAM-e taken twice daily until delivery or 1600 mg taken daily in two divided doses for 2 weeks has been used.
• For sexual dysfunction: 400 mg of SAM-e taken twice daily for 2 weeks, then increased to 800 mg twice daily for another 6 weeks, has been used.

Side Effects
While SAM-e is a very safe product it can have a few mild side effects including:
• Nausea.
• Diarrhea.
• Headache.
• Anxiety.
• Gas.
• Swings from depression to intense energy (mania).

Warning - People diagnosed with bipolar disorder should not take SAM-e.

Why bipolar do not take sam-e? I wonder what it effects for them? And how do u know if ur bi polar?

 

[BigTex]

They just list SAMe as contradicted to bipolar disease. However there is being a clinical trial done to see if it is possible to treat bipolar with SAMe

Here is the description:

Depression in bipolar disorder is a significant source of disease-related debility; with bipolar individuals typically spending three fold as much time depressed as manic or hypomanic. Clinicians treating bipolar disorder often struggle to provide relief from depressive symptoms that are more often treatment resistant than in unipolar depression. To complicate matters further, the risk/benefit ratio of currently available antidepressants is a source of debate within the field of psychiatry.

S-adenosyl-L-methionine (SAMe) is a dietary supplement with well-established antidepressant properties. SAMe's mechanism of action remains unclear, but it appears to be distinct from that of conventional antidepressants. The purpose of this study is to examine the effect of these properties on the mood of bipolar subjects with persistent major depression that has been unresponsive to standard pharmacotherapy.

 

[BigTex]

Conclusions​

The existing trials of SAMe, used as monotherapy or add on to another antidepressants, have shown encouraging and generally positive results. However, more evidence is necessary before definitive conclusions can be drawn. Larger, double-blind randomised controlled studies are warranted to confirm the antidepressant effectiveness of SAMe.

Cuomo, A., Beccarini Crescenzi, B., Bolognesi, S. et al. S-Adenosylmethionine (SAMe) in major depressive disorder (MDD): a clinician-oriented systematic review. Ann Gen Psychiatry 19, 50 (2020). S-Adenosylmethionine (SAMe) in major depressive disorder (MDD): a clinician-oriented systematic review - Annals of General Psychiatry

 

[J2048b]

i take SAMe and magnesium every morning, and it makes me feel wonderful!!

Man this was in 2014, after a while SAMe made me feel awful, i take proviron now every few days and it has lifted a cloud

 

[Belekas]

So anyone takes SAM-e and likes it?

 

[shroud778]

Took the foil wrapped tablets at 400mg a day but didn’t notice any positive effects that I could identify, so stopped about 6 weeks ago with still no discernible difference.

Also decided to stop the Omega 3. Been taking 6g to 10g a day for the past couple of years but whenever I temporarily stop like when being on holiday I notice no difference so thinking g about stopping for a longer duration to see if I notice anything.

 

[J2048b]

Took the foil wrapped tablets at 400mg a day but didn’t notice any positive effects that I could identify, so stopped about 6 weeks ago with still no discernible difference.

Also decided to stop the Omega 3. Been taking 6g to 10g a day for the past couple of years but whenever I temporarily stop like when being on holiday I notice no difference so thinking g about stopping for a longer duration to see if I notice anything.

Have u had any blood work checked to see if that fish oil is working? Cholesterol or any other type of blood work that fish oil may actually change? Hdl, ldl etc…?