Question for guys on trt long term

[sh1973]

I wanted to ask a question on here because I’ve never seen it asked before. Just wanted to get feedback from guys that have been on TRT several years. The question is, have you ever at any point while being on TRT, felt as good as when your body was performing at its best naturally? The reason I ask is because it seems like most guys after several years really run into complications and side effects especially in the libido department. Any feedback appreciated

 

[equel]

most guys after several years really run into complications and side effects especially in the libido department.

What?

 

[mooseman109]

I am 5 1/2 years in Yes I feel great, I mean I am 56, so do I feel like I did when I was 30. Of course not. But I have good sex drive, 2-3 times a week as schedule permits us. More muscle mass than when I was 30's.
I had some complications a couple years in. My PCP started me on this journey. But my HCT got up to over 62!! So off I came and then got in touch with another clinic and then ;anded withDefy. They took me down a path trying to tweak my protocol to get every bit we could. My idea not theirs!!! Got into a bit too much E2 with the added dhea and hug. Dropped all of that and do Test only and I am happy. Just ran yearly labs and will have follow up soon. I expect everything to come back fine.
So to answer you r question, it is working great of rme and may have been a better/faster transition to where I am if I had gone to Defy right away.

 

[sh1973]

I’m nearly a decade in and it has been a struggle most of the time. I’m by no means saying or implying that it doesn’t work for everyone nor am I bashing trt. What I’m saying is a good number of men start to struggle after a few years into it even with good labs. There are certain individuals that don’t respond as well to trt and this is a fact. I’ve found I feel best at a very low weekly dose of like 60-70mg but that puts my free t at 10ng or so.

 

[Nashtide]

I’m 57. Been on TRT four years. I feel great. Amazing energy, good libido, I have better body composition now than I did twenty years ago. I never experienced any problems with TRT.

 

[sh1973]

For me years 6-7 is where things really started to go bad and no matter what I changed it didn’t seem to help. I’m happy both of you find total success with trt but some of us don’t. I’ve tried coming off three times and just can’t deal with the withdrawal.

 

[Vince]

I've been on trt little over four years now. I feel really good and I really don't have any issues. I felt better in my twenties and 30s. I'm 64 now, will be turning 65 this year. I feel I'm doing excellent and I always had a very strong libido and still do.

 

[sh1973]

That’s good to hear Vince. Trust me man I am for you guys that do fantastic on TRT I just hope to one day figure out the magical formula for making it work for me. I definitely feel better than I did around six or seven years but it still just seems like something is missing. I’ve noticed now that Defy has some guys on low-dose testosterone with Clomid at the same time. Perhaps thats something I could try in the future if they seem to have success with it. Unfortunately for me I don’t respond well to any kind of medication or hormone so I think that something that causes a lot of problems with me as well. I’m a high shbg guy that don’t do well with high t levels at all. For me I have to stay under 800ng or all hell breaks loose. Not par for the course with other guys having high shbg.

 

[S1W]

For me years 6-7 is where things really started to go bad and no matter what I changed it didn’t seem to help. I’m happy both of you find total success with trt but some of us don’t. I’ve tried coming off three times and just can’t deal with the withdrawal.

For clarification, are you saying that TRT was going great for you from Day 1 through Year 5 and that you started having issues 6 years in?

Generally speaking, guys who are looking to "feel good" on TRT may always be somewhat dissatisfied. Not putting words in your mouth, just noting that I see this a lot on the forums.

I am only about 2 years in or so, but I went on TRT to address specific issues, and so far I am satisfied with how TRT has addressed those specific issues.

 

[sh1973]

I've never felt fantastic but then again I don't feel horrible. My biggest problem has been sexual desire/libido. Never had ED while on trt and usually have pretty good energy. There have been times I've went weeks without even as much as thinking about sex. I had the desire for sex at 440ng which is where my levels were prior to starting. Tried it all other than pellets and have also tried all the ancillary meds: HCG, DHEA, Prenenolone ETC... all of which made things exponentially worse. I do best on T only for sure.

 

[Cataceous]

... I’ve noticed now that Defy has some guys on low-dose testosterone with Clomid at the same time. Perhaps thats something I could try in the future if they seem to have success with it. ...

Yes, a SERM plus TRT is kind of intriguing if you can get the benefits of hCG without the problems. Unfortunately Defy is handcuffed by not having pure enclomifene as an option, at least for now.

Whether it would work for you might depend on how much your SHBG would go up.

 

[overvolting]

I've never felt fantastic but then again I don't feel horrible. My biggest problem has been sexual desire/libido. Never had ED while on trt and usually have pretty good energy. There have been times I've went weeks without even as much as thinking about sex. I had the desire for sex at 440ng which is where my levels were prior to starting. Tried it all other than pellets and have also tried all the ancillary meds: HCG, DHEA, Prenenolone ETC... all of which made things exponentially worse. I do best on T only for sure.

First off, sorry you are having issues and I hope very much that you can get them resolved to your satisfaction.

What makes you think your issues are testosterone / trt related?
TRT might fix issues caused by low T, but probably won't fix other problems.

Libido, sex drive, performance these are all very complicated multifactorial systems and can be affected by many different problems. I'm not even sure how well understood they are.

After reading the forums for a year, I've started to think many men on here keep tweaking their TRT over and over expecting it to fix their problems when really, tweaking their TRT won't fix their problems because the problems are not T related.

When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

I could very well be wrong, and I don't mean it in a bad way at all. I'm new to this and I'm not an expert in any way.

 

[sh1973]

All I can tell you is I had really high libido before TRT and has been non existent at times on TRT and I mean chemically castrated type non existent. I've been active on the forums over 11 years now and I can tell you for sure this is not uncommon. I've even went as far as doing nutritional deficiency tests and briefly trying an antidepressant to no avail. I recently tried propionate but had to be taken off of it due to a reaction. My libido did improve on that but whenever I've tried splitting the dose on cypionate or enanthate I feel terrible in every respect. My levels just keep climbing due to the high shbg. Late last year I did 30mg twice weekly with cypionate and my trough level was 1242ng. I over respond to all forms of TRT and always have. I briefly did 200mg eow in the beginning and my trough level 14 days out was 987ng. Hell who knows, maybe I only need 30-40mg per week with the way I respond.

 

[Cataceous]

... I recently tried propionate but had to be taken off of it due to a reaction. My libido did improve on that but whenever I've tried splitting the dose on cypionate or enanthate I feel terrible in every respect. ...

The fact that you can influence your libido means there is hope. I do think daily propionate is the closest thing we have to natural, SERMs aside. What was your bad reaction? It's expected that high SHBG will lead to lower effective metabolic clearance of testosterone and higher serum levels for the same dose. The main thing is what is free testosterone like? You probably only need it at 10-15 ng/dL to function well. I'm currently on 6 mg/day T prop and find it's as good as or better than any higher doses I've been on.

 

[sh1973]

Extreme anxiety, insomnia and carpal tunnel like symptoms in both hands. I went down to 5mg per day and didn’t help. Another poster Vince Carter said he had these strange pains as well. Not sure of the cause but stopped prop and haven’t felt them since.

 

[Rabbit91476]

As a guy who just started. 2 days ago. I’m curious why some guys do well and others don’t. Luck, race, genetics, shooting for numbers to high? Because this shit scares the hell out of me

 

[sh1973]

Rabbit it seems like luck of the draw. Please understand I'm not doing terrible, really the area of libido and desire is where I'm Lacking and hopefully Defy can help me sort that out eventually.

 

[S1W]

As a guy who just started. 2 days ago. I’m curious why some guys do well and others don’t. Luck, race, genetics, shooting for numbers to high? Because this shit scares the hell out of me

Without giving it a ton of thought and based purely on anecdotes:

Guys who do well tend to be:
-Older guys (50+) who likely have no real hormonal issues other than age-related decline
-Guys who start TRT for a specific reason - i.e. libido, etc. They are able to focus on that one issue til they see symptom resolution vs constantly evaluating every little detail
-Guys who are already fit physically and stable mentally who actually have sub 350 or so T levels.
-Guys who are patient and truly committed to giving a protocol a chance before mixing things up.

Guys who struggle seem to be:
-Guys who go on TRT that have low T because they are overweight
-Guys who had mental health or physical health issues prior to TRT which continue to affect them on TRT - TRT was not the panacea they thought it would be
-Guys who go on TRT because they just generally "didn't feel right" and they're looking to "feel better"
-Guys who go on TRT even though their T levels are fine, thinking the small boost in T levels will turn them into Arnold or some sort of sexual superman (it doesn't)
-Guys who live unhealthy lifestyles (heavy drinking, no exercise, poor diet, etc) and go on TRT thinking it will be some sort of short cut to well-being
-Guys that "obsess" for lack of better words and are constantly tweaking their protocols in hopes of finding the magic recipe

Nothing to be scared of though - if you give it an honest try and don't like it, just quit.

 

[Rabbit91476]

I’m 42. Fit eat well fall under sub 320. Just want better quality of life. I know it’s not depression. Trust me if a doctor said it was a different issue I would be happy. Just with I had more caring doctors. But this is off topic so I will shut up

 

[equel]

Maybe u need lower testosterone to feel good? Ever tried having levels around 4-500 ? Maybe that gives u better libido.