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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
When Testosterone Is Not Enough
Penile fibrosis after long time without morning erections?
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<blockquote data-quote="Simbarn" data-source="post: 229688" data-attributes="member: 44021"><p>I will reply below your comments.</p><p></p><p><em>“thanks for the detailed answer. I took breaks from clomid (for 2-3 months at a time) but yeah most of the time i was on it, although not consistently. I would wait 2-3 months, then run 2-3 weeks of either 25mg clomid or 10mg nolva. I did took a long break for about 4-5 months during this time.”</em></p><p></p><p>I see, your other post says you did not take a break for longer than a month. “All this years from November 2018 until June 2021 when I started trt I didn't stop serms for more than a month”. Your story seems to change. I will go with what you have just said now. You have done all of the above SERM cycles on your own or with a doctors guidance? Your periods on Clomid being only 2-3 weeks are very short. You didn’t answer my question as to if you did long tapers at the end of these bouts with either Clomid or Nolvadex? It does not sound like it as you would have had to run these courses for much longer for that to happen. Suddenly DC these drugs can cause the higher level of gonadotropins they create to crash. Dr Crisler, who understood restarts very well always said a long slow taper is very important for them to have a good chance at working. Also, did you use HCG prior to the Clomid when you first started the SERM treatment? I do not see any mention of HCG during these restarts.</p><p></p><p>The testes are always the slowest to respond compared to the pituitary when doing a restart. Often restarts fail because of this. This is because the testes fully shut down with very high doses of T (which you were taking). They atrophy. The pituitary still produces other hormones, so it does not atrophy like the testes do. If the testes are up and running when LH and FSH are stimulated by Clomid, this can hasten the whole recovery process.</p><p>From what you have described it appears your restarts have been not done correctly.</p><p></p><p><em>“I ve seen numerous doctors (more than 10 endo's) while trying to recover but where i live they dont know much about trt. The decision to hop on was due to the fact that i took proviron a month prior cause it was the only thing that helped with libido and supposedly it doesnt cause much suppression (bullshit). Before starting trt during 2019 if i remember correctly i also did 3 months of hcg only (no difference). I started trt on May 2021”</em></p><p></p><p>You have seen 10 specialists in that period of time! Why have you seen so many Endocrinologists? Did most refuse to put you on testosterone? </p><p></p><p><em>“During trt i use hcg for a month every now and the to keep testicle size. i know i might be able to restore natural production but the roller coaster and the probability of it not working is not something i can handle at the moment. Plus since starting everything has become better (besides erections), gym performance, confidence and also a big drop in blood sugar levels (from 105 to 85).”</em></p><p></p><p>Are you pre-diabetic? How are you managing this?</p><p></p><p>Correct, that amount testosterone you are on will be great for stimulating muscle development. This does not mean it is good for you. I know of many guys that have said they wanted to be on TRT just for this reason. Confidence too will be boosted, as testosterone can work like a mood enhancing drug. This is one of its dangers. One reason AAS users keep going back on cycles. Some things have appeared to get better for you whilst on these high doses except for the one thing that is extremely important to any young male, sexual function.</p><p>I am going to be very to the point here: Your sexual function, namely your erectile function will never work properly no matter what you try and do, while you are taking that amount of testosterone that you are now on. In fact you are probably running the risk of causing morphological tissue changes in the erectile tissues earlier than would otherwise be occurring at 33 years of age. Raising T levels beyond what you are designed to have biochemically is not healthy and this is not just because it elevates estrogen.</p><p></p><p>I can see you like the effects of the high testosterone level, most probably due to how it improves your performance in the gym. This is not dissimilar to using it for AAS purposes. Your natural T level would not give you these results I would imagine, so you need to be honest with yourself as to why you are persistent with being on TRT or specifically wanting to stay on a high dose of T.</p><p></p><p><em>“Although my trt is presribed by an endo i asked him for it. About the doses i took it in my own hands cause he didnt seem to know what he was doing (he suggested one injection 200mg every 3 weeks and he said that with this way you avoid the shutdown lol). I dont think my dose means much cause i was going with bloodwork 200mg puts me at 1050 total t which is high but not super high.”</em></p><p></p><p>Your dose means everything. Doubling your natural level of T IMO to 1050 is very high for you. I understand your loss of confidence in this doctor if he said this about shutdown. This is very odd for an experienced Endo as they all know that shut down is inevitable.</p><p></p><p>I am nearly 60. My dose of injectable T is about 60-70mgs per week which I split into two doses. If I increase this dose, I notice that my ED issues increase markedly. I get a very good consistent response from 5 mgs of Tadalafil which I take daily. At my age and due to hormonal issues in my past I no doubt have changes in tissue content and function in my penis, whereby I need that boost in the NO pathway for better erectile function. You do not want to accelerate the need for this at your age and possibly end up requiring IC penis injections for sex later on.</p><p></p><p>From what you have said even Tadalafil is not giving you a strong normal erection. This is even more evidence IMO that your current HRT protocol is inhibiting erectile function to a great degree.</p><p>Our body produces T in a diurnal rhythm. It has two peaks in the day, morning being the highest. Why do you think we have those peaks and troughs? What do you think saturating your cells with what they see as an overdose of a particular chemical messenger does? Have a really good think about it. What happens when we overdose our cells with insulin, glucagon, cortisol, adrenalin… It isn’t good. Testosterone is not the exception.</p><p></p><p><em>“I would also like to add here that during the 2 cycles i have done i used to run 500 to 700mg of testosterone and my libido and erection were very high. Thats why i think that something is caused either by the long clomid runs or the time without morning erections that followed the last cycle (2018).”</em></p><p></p><p>When you use testosterone in AAS cycles the androgen receptor is usually fresh to its effects. It will then drive libido very high in most men and erections will also seem stronger. The HPTA is also still running for a brief period and the effects of not having LH and FSH will have not set in. Over time all this will change, and supra-physiological doses will eventually cause complete sexual dysfunction. I understand why you have come to this conclusion, but it is not correct.</p><p></p><p><em>“Truth is according to bloodwork ever since starting trt i never even got close to the 500nd/dl that i had prior to starting steroids. the lowest i ve seen my t on trough is 650 on 125mg per week. Maybe that is the best thing to do. Drop my dose to mimick my natural production although if e2 is managed i cant see how a lower t level within the normal range would be better for erections.”</em></p><p></p><p>I agree, you have not emulated your natural production at any time since being on TRT, this is bad HRT. You cannot see how a lower T level will be better for erections? This is because you have no knowledge of erectile function. Spend the next few years of your life learning about it, reading medical textbooks and collecting papers on erectile dysfunction from reputable researchers and you may then have some understanding of what you may be doing to yourself by self-medicating with excessive testosterone. I have tried to explain in the other posts some reasons why excessive T is not good for erectile function. It is not just about estrogen! Research is still discovering much about ED, hence why medicine still cannot cure many forms of ED. Hormone disruption is a major cause of it and the correct balance of hormones is without question, vital.</p><p></p><p>My advice is to find a doctor who understands restarts very well. You do not want a life on TRT if it is at all avoidable, especially as you are still young. As you were perfectly healthy before your mistake of using AAS, I would be trying everything you can to restore your natural testosterone. There is a plethora of information on this forum about restarts and members who know a lot about them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Simbarn, post: 229688, member: 44021"] I will reply below your comments. [I]“thanks for the detailed answer. I took breaks from clomid (for 2-3 months at a time) but yeah most of the time i was on it, although not consistently. I would wait 2-3 months, then run 2-3 weeks of either 25mg clomid or 10mg nolva. I did took a long break for about 4-5 months during this time.”[/I] I see, your other post says you did not take a break for longer than a month. “All this years from November 2018 until June 2021 when I started trt I didn't stop serms for more than a month”. Your story seems to change. I will go with what you have just said now. You have done all of the above SERM cycles on your own or with a doctors guidance? Your periods on Clomid being only 2-3 weeks are very short. You didn’t answer my question as to if you did long tapers at the end of these bouts with either Clomid or Nolvadex? It does not sound like it as you would have had to run these courses for much longer for that to happen. Suddenly DC these drugs can cause the higher level of gonadotropins they create to crash. Dr Crisler, who understood restarts very well always said a long slow taper is very important for them to have a good chance at working. Also, did you use HCG prior to the Clomid when you first started the SERM treatment? I do not see any mention of HCG during these restarts. The testes are always the slowest to respond compared to the pituitary when doing a restart. Often restarts fail because of this. This is because the testes fully shut down with very high doses of T (which you were taking). They atrophy. The pituitary still produces other hormones, so it does not atrophy like the testes do. If the testes are up and running when LH and FSH are stimulated by Clomid, this can hasten the whole recovery process. From what you have described it appears your restarts have been not done correctly. [I]“I ve seen numerous doctors (more than 10 endo's) while trying to recover but where i live they dont know much about trt. The decision to hop on was due to the fact that i took proviron a month prior cause it was the only thing that helped with libido and supposedly it doesnt cause much suppression (bullshit). Before starting trt during 2019 if i remember correctly i also did 3 months of hcg only (no difference). I started trt on May 2021”[/I] You have seen 10 specialists in that period of time! Why have you seen so many Endocrinologists? Did most refuse to put you on testosterone? [I]“During trt i use hcg for a month every now and the to keep testicle size. i know i might be able to restore natural production but the roller coaster and the probability of it not working is not something i can handle at the moment. Plus since starting everything has become better (besides erections), gym performance, confidence and also a big drop in blood sugar levels (from 105 to 85).”[/I] Are you pre-diabetic? How are you managing this? Correct, that amount testosterone you are on will be great for stimulating muscle development. This does not mean it is good for you. I know of many guys that have said they wanted to be on TRT just for this reason. Confidence too will be boosted, as testosterone can work like a mood enhancing drug. This is one of its dangers. One reason AAS users keep going back on cycles. Some things have appeared to get better for you whilst on these high doses except for the one thing that is extremely important to any young male, sexual function. I am going to be very to the point here: Your sexual function, namely your erectile function will never work properly no matter what you try and do, while you are taking that amount of testosterone that you are now on. In fact you are probably running the risk of causing morphological tissue changes in the erectile tissues earlier than would otherwise be occurring at 33 years of age. Raising T levels beyond what you are designed to have biochemically is not healthy and this is not just because it elevates estrogen. I can see you like the effects of the high testosterone level, most probably due to how it improves your performance in the gym. This is not dissimilar to using it for AAS purposes. Your natural T level would not give you these results I would imagine, so you need to be honest with yourself as to why you are persistent with being on TRT or specifically wanting to stay on a high dose of T. [I]“Although my trt is presribed by an endo i asked him for it. About the doses i took it in my own hands cause he didnt seem to know what he was doing (he suggested one injection 200mg every 3 weeks and he said that with this way you avoid the shutdown lol). I dont think my dose means much cause i was going with bloodwork 200mg puts me at 1050 total t which is high but not super high.”[/I] Your dose means everything. Doubling your natural level of T IMO to 1050 is very high for you. I understand your loss of confidence in this doctor if he said this about shutdown. This is very odd for an experienced Endo as they all know that shut down is inevitable. I am nearly 60. My dose of injectable T is about 60-70mgs per week which I split into two doses. If I increase this dose, I notice that my ED issues increase markedly. I get a very good consistent response from 5 mgs of Tadalafil which I take daily. At my age and due to hormonal issues in my past I no doubt have changes in tissue content and function in my penis, whereby I need that boost in the NO pathway for better erectile function. You do not want to accelerate the need for this at your age and possibly end up requiring IC penis injections for sex later on. From what you have said even Tadalafil is not giving you a strong normal erection. This is even more evidence IMO that your current HRT protocol is inhibiting erectile function to a great degree. Our body produces T in a diurnal rhythm. It has two peaks in the day, morning being the highest. Why do you think we have those peaks and troughs? What do you think saturating your cells with what they see as an overdose of a particular chemical messenger does? Have a really good think about it. What happens when we overdose our cells with insulin, glucagon, cortisol, adrenalin… It isn’t good. Testosterone is not the exception. [I]“I would also like to add here that during the 2 cycles i have done i used to run 500 to 700mg of testosterone and my libido and erection were very high. Thats why i think that something is caused either by the long clomid runs or the time without morning erections that followed the last cycle (2018).”[/I] When you use testosterone in AAS cycles the androgen receptor is usually fresh to its effects. It will then drive libido very high in most men and erections will also seem stronger. The HPTA is also still running for a brief period and the effects of not having LH and FSH will have not set in. Over time all this will change, and supra-physiological doses will eventually cause complete sexual dysfunction. I understand why you have come to this conclusion, but it is not correct. [I]“Truth is according to bloodwork ever since starting trt i never even got close to the 500nd/dl that i had prior to starting steroids. the lowest i ve seen my t on trough is 650 on 125mg per week. Maybe that is the best thing to do. Drop my dose to mimick my natural production although if e2 is managed i cant see how a lower t level within the normal range would be better for erections.”[/I] I agree, you have not emulated your natural production at any time since being on TRT, this is bad HRT. You cannot see how a lower T level will be better for erections? This is because you have no knowledge of erectile function. Spend the next few years of your life learning about it, reading medical textbooks and collecting papers on erectile dysfunction from reputable researchers and you may then have some understanding of what you may be doing to yourself by self-medicating with excessive testosterone. I have tried to explain in the other posts some reasons why excessive T is not good for erectile function. It is not just about estrogen! Research is still discovering much about ED, hence why medicine still cannot cure many forms of ED. Hormone disruption is a major cause of it and the correct balance of hormones is without question, vital. My advice is to find a doctor who understands restarts very well. You do not want a life on TRT if it is at all avoidable, especially as you are still young. As you were perfectly healthy before your mistake of using AAS, I would be trying everything you can to restore your natural testosterone. There is a plethora of information on this forum about restarts and members who know a lot about them. [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
When Testosterone Is Not Enough
Penile fibrosis after long time without morning erections?
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