Oxandrolone with 10mg DHEA at the end: blood tests and my experience

[Rock H. Johnson]

In the only pharmacokinetic study available the experts dissolved oxandrolone in alcohol before digestion.

You did not link to the study so I can not know why they did that, bio-availability of C17 Alpha Alkylated Oral Steroids is very high.

Can you also explain what you mean with "the only pharmacokinetic study available" because there are many studies done with Oxandrolone? I have found 100 studies with Oxandrolone and many with HIV patients. Maybe a link to the study you mention as I would like to read it?

If only they knew that according to "Jonhson" everything dissolves in HCL and there is no need of bile, enzymes and all that other unnecessary stuff in the digestive track .... LOL

Sweet a strawman argument, dismissing my argument by stating something I did not see the need to mention, as it is stating the obvious.

Obvious is that enzymes needed for digesting proteins, bile for fats etc..we are not talking about those.. C17 Alpha Alkylated Oral Steroids are none of those (the tablet filler which falls apart in HCL, needs to be digested but) the active ingredient in your case Oxandrolone goes directly into the small intestine. From where it goes to the liver (where it is not broken down as it is a, C17 Alpha Alkylated Oral Steroid)and directly released into the bloodstream.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

■ Oxandrolone has beneficial effects in patients with bodyweight loss associated with HIV infection, report US-based researchers. In this pilot study, 13 such patients who were receiving oxandrolone 10mg twice daily were then randomised to progressive resistance exercise (n = 7) or no exercise (controls).* Of the 10 patients who completed 3 months’ treatment, 5 exercise recipients gained a mean of 3.9kg (5.6% of entry bodyweight) and 5 controls gained a mean of 2.7kg (4.6% of entry bodyweight). Bodyweight, body cell mass and phase angle did not increase in any of the exercise recipients. The researchers add results from the control group indicate that oxandrolone can increase these parameters even in the absence of exercise.See also Inpharma 1184: 14, 24 Apr 1999; 800632741 * This study was supported in part by BioTechnology General Corporation, Iselin, New Jersey, US. Romeyn M, et al. Resistance exercise and oxandrolone for men with HIVrelated weight loss. JAMA: the Journal of the American Medical Association 284: 176, 12 Jul 2000 800820899

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

■ The synthetic testosterone derivative, oxandrolone, promotes weight gain in patients with cancer and HIV, according to the results of two studies presented recently at the American Society for Parenteral and Enteral Nutrition’s 27th Clinical Congress at the 2nd Annual Nutrition Week Scientific Meeting in Aspen, US. In the two open-label studies, 128 HIV positive patients and 139 cancer patients who had been actively losing weight were administered oxandrolone [‘Oxandrin’] 20 mg/day for four months combined with education in nutrition and exercise. The researchers found that approximately 80% of cancer patients were able to gain or maintain weight with an average increase in lean tissue of 4lbs. Similarly, a majority of HIV positive patients maintained their existing weight or gained weight; the average increase among these patents was 6.6lbs, including 4.6lbs of lean tissue. Oxandrolone therapy was also associated with improved scores on assessments of quality of life and activities of daily living. Bio-Technology General Corp.. Weight Gain in Patients With Cancer & HIV - Final Research Presented at ASPEN -. Media Release : 20 Jan 2003. Available from: URL: http://www.btgc.com 809017364

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

P-12 A FISHER, M ABBATICOLA Stratogen Health and Brown University, 400 Reservoir Avenue, Providence, RI 02907 USA EFFECTS OF OXANDROLONE AND L-GLUTAMINE ON BODY WEIGHT, BODY CELL MASS, AND BODY FAT IN PATIENTS WITH HIV INFECTION-PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS Background: Oxandrolone is an orally bioavailable anabolic steroid indicated to offset muscle catabolism. Glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in the body, is stored in skeletal muscle, and is released in response to physiological stress. Depletion of glutamine is a causative factor in AIDS-related wasting. Body cell mass (BCM) represents total functioning cells; normally 60% BCM is muscle. Body Fat (BF) consists of metabolically inactive cells. Loss of BCM is the key factor in AIDS wasting morbidity and mortality. BCM and BF are accurately measured by bioelectric impedance analysis (BIA). Objectives: To measure the response of body weight (BW), BCM and BF by BIA in patients with HIV infection and weight loss to oxandrolone given with glutamine (O/G) in a phase IV clinical trial. Methods: Patients with AIDS and weight loss were offered open label oxandrolone 20 mg daily with glutamine 20 g daily. BIA was performed at baseline and periodically during the time on study. The patients were stable on antiretroviral therapy regimens and free of acute infections. Results: 16 male patients entered the study. The treatment time at analysis was 33+12 (+lSD) days. Al1 patients gained BW (mean: 2.92 2.4 kg) and BCM (mean 1.2-cO.7 kg). Both changes are highly significant (p=O.OOOI). A small insignificant increase in BF was observed (mean: 0.7-C 1.7 kg). The treatment regimen was well tolerated. No side-effects were observed. Patients continuing treatment will be periodically w-evaluated over the course of one year. Conclusions: Treatment with O/G resulted in significant weight gain, increased BCM, and did not promote excess BF gain in this group of patients with HIV infection and weight loss at baseline.

 

[sammmy]

I have used real Ecdysteron (Cyanotis Vaga extract) and do not need "studies" to tell me if it works or not but here it is:
Ecdysteroids as non-conventional anabolic agent: performance enhancement by ecdysterone supplementation in humans

 

[sammmy]

Regarding Oxandrolone, all studies I've read do not mention how it was ingested, so please do not cite the whole Internet above. There is not a single proper pharmacokinetic study comparing Oxandrolone availability when fasted vs after meal vs after meal with fat.

Drugs dissolvable in fat are better absorbed with a meal containing fat. That is a general fact and well known to me since many HIV drugs are of this type.

The only study describing pharmacokinetics of Oxandrolone had it pre-dissolved in alcohol. It's not my job to find it for you, since apparently you have plenty of free time on your hands.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

For those interrested, the full study:

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Recovery from Oxandrolone

I simply stopped Oxandrolone and DHEA and did not do PCP. The table below shows that after only 11 days blood lipids, sexual hormones, and other problematic blood parameters were almost recovered and at 4 weeks they are completely recovered. I actually felt that my libido and ability to orgasm came back at around 3 weeks post which suggests that the necessary time for recovery is 2-3 weeks.

Test	Normal range (male)	Before Oxandrolone	After 4 weeks of 15mg Oxandrolone and 12 days of 10mg DHEA	11 days after stopping Oxandrolone and DHEA	4 weeks after stopping Oxandrolone and DHEA
HDL (good)	> 40 mg/dL	59	31	52	57
LDL (bad)	< 100 mg/dL	116	117	106	99
Testosterone	250 - 1100 ng/dL	940	266	648	746
Free Test. (dialysis)	35 - 155 pg/mL	85.4	45.3	63.0	78.2
Estradiol (ultrasens)	<= 29 pg/mL	typical 33 - 37	7	19	15
Neutrophils	1500 - 7800 /uL	1699	1411	1360	1565
Creatinine	0.60 - 1.35 mg/dL	1.24	1.40	1.27	1.22
AST	10 - 40 U/L	21	45	36	23

The only thing that remains a mystery is the persistently normal estradiol which is extremely unusual for me - we will see if that will last. Before that experiment, my estradiol was always above the normal for males range.



One month after I stopped Oxandrolone, I still lift the same weights as during the cycle but I increased my protein intake which kind of substitutes for the anabolic effect of Oxandrolone. The "gains" from Oxandrolone were something I could get by just working out and increasing the protein intake.

My next "cycle" would most probably be just protein and Beta Ecdysterone.

Thanks for sharing this. You may want to continue DHEA to bump your estradiol.