Osteoarthritis and adding nandrolone to TRT

[Pacman]

I have osteoarthitis in my shoulder. I have tried PRP ($1500), physical therapy ($1200), I modified several upper body exercises to work the muscles without heavily inflaming the current state of my shoulder (I get creative), I focus a ton on joint health (CARs, etc), and have found very temporary solutions for the pain itself that does still pop up at least 1-2 times a week despite all that (it used to be MUCH worse both in intensity and frequency!!).

I have been doing my best to research and reach firm conclusions regarding the efficacy of nandrolone and joint pain. I have so far been unsuccessful in reaching any confident conclusions on whether it works and if it does, HOW it works?

I have so many questions about it, namely:

1) Does it actually lubricate the joint with synovial fluid? Or does it work in another way?

2) Is it healthy long term?

3) Is it okay to take even if you take oxandrolone as well? Or would the potential cardio risks of the combo completely outweigh the benefits?

4) Does it help with ALL types of joint pain? There are so many reasons joints can hurt. They could be: bad repetitive motions, tendinopathy, osteoarthritis (degradation of the cartilage), rheumatoid arthritis, torn labrums, injured minisci, etc etc.. Surely not all these different causes of joint pain have one solution like nandrolone? Can they?

I see conflicting information online the world over. And it is driving me crazy.

On the one hand, I see this optimistic research paper:

Nandrolone decanoate relieves joint pain in hypogonadal men: a novel prospective pilot study and review of the literature

Testosterone is an archetypal androgenic-anabolic steroid (AAS), while its exogenous administration is considered to be the gold standard for the treatment of male hypogonadism. The benefits are not due to its intrinsic nature alone but are due to the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That is until I read this conclusion at the end:

Forty-eight eligible patients completed the initial survey, and 18 men (37.5%) responded to follow-up requests.
......
Of the 18 men who responded to their follow-up request, 13 (72.2%) reported marked improvements in joint pain, with 5 (27.8%) reporting a decreased need for longstanding pain medication.

So out of 48 subjects, 5 of them reported back improvements on joint pain.

And then I see what this university source says:

https://liinc.bme.columbia.edu/how-does-nandrolone-decanoate-help-joints-and-ligaments/

They claim that it increases synovial fluid in the joints (but don't give a source), and that nandrolone actually INCREASES risk of injury. (They quoted a research paper but again, they didn't link a source!!!).

So it makes me wonder, what info is accurate? How can there be such conflicting reputable sources of info?

And a question for any of you here who have used nandrolone successfully to assist with joint pain, what was the source of your joint pain (tendon injury, ostoearthritis, etc)? How long did it take to work and what was your protocol? Any sides to speak of? Was it worth it?

 

[captain]

I used it and it does work for joint pain. The source of pain arthritis. I recall about 2-3 weeks and my knees felt better. Was using 50mg a week. After around 4-5 months of use my HCT, HGB and RBC was way high causing fatigue and vertigo. I been off all TRT for 3 months and just now getting back to normal. No it wasn't worth it but you don't know till you try.

 

[Pacman]

I used it and it does work for joint pain. The source of pain arthritis. I recall about 2-3 weeks and my knees felt better. Was using 50mg a week. After around 4-5 months of use my HCT, HGB and RBC was way high causing fatigue and vertigo. I been off all TRT for 3 months and just now getting back to normal. No it wasn't worth it but you don't know till you try.

Thank you for your input. Are you 100% sure that the elevated blood markers were directly caused by nandrolone itself? You must have been also taking testosterone on top of that, correct? Were those blood markers relatively bad by you to begin with prior to using nandrolone?

Those are pretty serious side effects if they are indeed directly caused by nandrolone.

What type of arthritis do you have?

What are you doing for joint pain now? Just NSAIDs and such?

 

[Gman86]

The increase in HCT, HGB and RBC’s, on nandrolone, is gonna be pretty individual. Even on 200mg of nandrolone and 80mg of test those markers weren’t higher for me than on test alone, and I had no negative symptoms. I also used 175mg of test with 100mg of nandrolone not too long ago and same thing, those markers weren’t higher than on test alone, and no negative symptoms. Only way to find out how u’ll react is to try it. U shouldn’t have a problem if u keep ur nandrolone dose between 50mg-100mg. I see no downsides to trying it. If u end up not liking it being part of ur protocol, u just stop taking it and eventually everything will go back to baseline. I thinks it’s always better to try something than to always wonder about it. But that’s just me personally

 

[captain]

Thank you for your input. Are you 100% sure that the elevated blood markers were directly caused by nandrolone itself? You must have been also taking testosterone on top of that, correct? Were those blood markers relatively bad by you to begin with prior to using nandrolone?

Those are pretty serious side effects if they are indeed directly caused by nandrolone.

What type of arthritis do you have?

What are you doing for joint pain now? Just NSAIDs and such?

I was on TRT for close to 10 years and never had elevated blood markers even close to what nandrolone did to them. Osteoarthritis is the type. I can't take NSAIDs anymore from using them for years. I don't use anything for pain I just have to deal with it.

 

[JimGainz]

I have been cycling nandrolone in 2 to 3 month intervals, with about an equal time off, for the last two years or so. Recently I was approved for long-term use and just rounded my third month of continual use. I plan to stay on for about six months at a time then take a month off and then go back on. The results have been amazing for me. I have a lot of osteoarthritis in my knees and aching shoulder and overall body pain. Nandrolone takes care of that. I take the same amount as testosterone – which is about 45 mg every three days of both nandrolone and testosterone. No other issues with blood markers. No-hit to lipids, and creatinine actually improved on nandrolone which I attribute to the anti-inflammatory effects of a substance. I absolutely love the stuff. It’s probably the single best thing I have done to improve my protocol and overall well-being since going on testosterone.

You do have to watch the hematocrit and hemoglobin - which for me equates to giving blood about every three months.

 

[Jed Dorsey]

Been on Nandrolone now for about 5-6 months and so far so good. Contemplated it’s use for about 2 years and yes they are correct you’ll never know how you’ll do until you try because everybody responds a little different.
I got on due to chronic shoulder pain due to osteoarthritis, I tried everything from NSAIDS to acupuncture I ran the gamut but nothing help. After speaking to my orthopedic doctor he tells me surgery is my only hope but that he gives me a 50/50 chance to 100% recovery. After hearing that I said I better try nandrolone first and glad I did. Pain is 95% gone after the 3rd week of administration at 80mg a week/ 125 mg Testosterone with no major side effects. Libido still good. Ran blood work after month 3 and did see an slight increase in RBC abd HTC but testosterone alone does that to me anyway. Also saw a decrease in PSA from 3.7 to 3.1 a testament to its anti inflammatory effects. One thing I would like to add is during my research many claim that the addition of nandrolone to TRT will not raise testosterone levels significantly higher but perhaps just with them because my pre-nandrolone testosterone level was 850-920 at 3 month check testosterone rose to 1500+ WOW!

 

[Gman86]

Been on Nandrolone now for about 5-6 months and so far so good. Contemplated it’s use for about 2 years and yes they are correct you’ll never know how you’ll do until you try because everybody responds a little different.
I got on due to chronic shoulder pain due to osteoarthritis, I tried everything from NSAIDS to acupuncture I ran the gamut but nothing help. After speaking to my orthopedic doctor he tells me surgery is my only hope but that he gives me a 50/50 chance to 100% recovery. After hearing that I said I better try nandrolone first and glad I did. Pain is 95% gone after the 3rd week of administration at 80mg a week/ 125 mg Testosterone with no major side effects. Libido still good. Ran blood work after month 3 and did see an slight increase in RBC abd HTC but testosterone alone does that to me anyway. Also saw a decrease in PSA from 3.7 to 3.1 a testament to its anti inflammatory effects. One thing I would like to add is during my research many claim that the addition of nandrolone to TRT will not raise testosterone levels significantly higher but perhaps just with them because my pre-nandrolone testosterone level was 850-920 at 3 month check testosterone rose to 1500+ WOW!

If u get the non sensitive total testosterone test it is not specific enough to be able to tell the difference between a testosterone molecule and a nandrolone molecule, so it thinks they’re the same thing and puts them together. If u get the LC/MS or LC/MS/MS total testosterone test it can tell the difference between the two, and will only tell u how much testosterone is in ur system, and completely leave out any nandrolone u have floating around

 

[tareload]

I have osteoarthitis in my shoulder. I have tried PRP ($1500), physical therapy ($1200), I modified several upper body exercises to work the muscles without heavily inflaming the current state of my shoulder (I get creative), I focus a ton on joint health (CARs, etc), and have found very temporary solutions for the pain itself that does still pop up at least 1-2 times a week despite all that (it used to be MUCH worse both in intensity and frequency!!).

I have been doing my best to research and reach firm conclusions regarding the efficacy of nandrolone and joint pain. I have so far been unsuccessful in reaching any confident conclusions on whether it works and if it does, HOW it works?

I have so many questions about it, namely:

1) Does it actually lubricate the joint with synovial fluid? Or does it work in another way?

2) Is it healthy long term?

3) Is it okay to take even if you take oxandrolone as well? Or would the potential cardio risks of the combo completely outweigh the benefits?

4) Does it help with ALL types of joint pain? There are so many reasons joints can hurt. They could be: bad repetitive motions, tendinopathy, osteoarthritis (degradation of the cartilage), rheumatoid arthritis, torn labrums, injured minisci, etc etc.. Surely not all these different causes of joint pain have one solution like nandrolone? Can they?

I see conflicting information online the world over. And it is driving me crazy.

On the one hand, I see this optimistic research paper:

Nandrolone decanoate relieves joint pain in hypogonadal men: a novel prospective pilot study and review of the literature

Testosterone is an archetypal androgenic-anabolic steroid (AAS), while its exogenous administration is considered to be the gold standard for the treatment of male hypogonadism. The benefits are not due to its intrinsic nature alone but are due to the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That is until I read this conclusion at the end:

So out of 48 subjects, 5 of them reported back improvements on joint pain.

And then I see what this university source says:

https://liinc.bme.columbia.edu/how-does-nandrolone-decanoate-help-joints-and-ligaments/

They claim that it increases synovial fluid in the joints (but don't give a source), and that nandrolone actually INCREASES risk of injury. (They quoted a research paper but again, they didn't link a source!!!).

So it makes me wonder, what info is accurate? How can there be such conflicting reputable sources of info?

And a question for any of you here who have used nandrolone successfully to assist with joint pain, what was the source of your joint pain (tendon injury, ostoearthritis, etc)? How long did it take to work and what was your protocol? Any sides to speak of? Was it worth it?

See links in this post. There is ZERO literature regarding positive effect of ND on synovial fluid.

I'd be happy for anyone to prove me wrong. This is a good-sounding myth.

Adjusting my dose down for longterm health reasons, will it lead to muscle loss?

That's pretty much it -- then, retest your ferritin to confirm that it's back to pre-donation level. The times of taking are crucial, as is avoiding Vitamins C and D (while you're doing this). No dose skipping either! For people just jumping in: the explanation is here...

www.excelmale.com

I've considered intra-articular injections of stanozolol which show promise for horses:

Topical Nandrolone w/ TRT

Wow, really? No one has a comment on this or has tried it? Shocked.

forums.t-nation.com

But never tried it. The horses seem to like it.

 

[JimGainz]

See links in this post. There is ZERO literature regarding positive effect of ND on synovial fluid.

I'd be happy for anyone to prove me wrong. This is a good-sounding myth.

Adjusting my dose down for longterm health reasons, will it lead to muscle loss?

That's pretty much it -- then, retest your ferritin to confirm that it's back to pre-donation level. The times of taking are crucial, as is avoiding Vitamins C and D (while you're doing this). No dose skipping either! For people just jumping in: the explanation is here...

www.excelmale.com

I've considered intra-articular injections of stanozolol which show promise for horses:

Topical Nandrolone w/ TRT

Wow, really? No one has a comment on this or has tried it? Shocked.

forums.t-nation.com

But never tried it. The horses seem to like it.

I’ll give you my two cents as a somewhat long-term user in that I have been running therapeutic doses on and off for the past two years or so as part of TRT but I’m on full time now.

I had lots of osteoarthritis, mostly in my knees, as well as some degeneration of tendons in my shoulder. Along the way I have had some rotator cuff injuries as well as overall muscle soreness from working out. Nandrolone made a significant difference in all of the above. It definitely did not heal because as soon as I come off, about a month later the pain comes back although I can say that I am definitely better off from running it - even when stopping - than I was when I first started. Whether that was from increased strength and muscle that stabilized the joint or nandrolone actually performing some sort of healing I don’t know.

If you run it, you want to be about 100 mg per week. I definitely would not run it with oxandrolone if you are starting out because you won’t be able to assess the root cause of any side effects if you get any. Plus that combo will spike your PSA.

You have nothing to lose by trying a 3 month cycle at clinical doses of 75-100mg/week. If it’s any consolation - I had an advanced heart lab performed which measured all forms of arterial inflammation and plaque and I was in the Optimal state on all markers despite being over 50, taking Nandralone on and off for a few years and doing lots of steroids in the 80s. If anything is going to happen - it’s not going to be from a few low dose cycles based on my experience.

 

[Vince]

I also had a torn rotary cuff. Along with a torn bicep and bone spur on shoulder. My bicep was not a complete tear, and I did not know it was torn, no pain. I did lower my testosterone a lot, when I tried nandrolone. I used 20 mg of testosterone one day and then the next day I used 20 mg of nandrolone. Average weekly dose was 70 mg of testosterone and 70 mg of nandrolone.

I actually enjoy the experience and would continue using that protocol, if it wasn't for my cholesterol panel. It did not lower my HDL, but destroyed my particle numbers. Heart disease scares me, because of my family history. So I stopped the trial of nandrolone.

 

[benaoao]

I’ve been off of everything for a while and I’m happy with my physique and quality of life. I don’t train like a retard I’m conservative with the loads and movements (no barbell pressing…. No deadlifts….) yet my lower back and shoulders hurt like I’m on high dose winstrol. I tend to have low E2 as a natty so there’s that.

If Deca doesn’t have any literature showing legit improvements at the joint level then is it E2 which Deca may help bring up? I’m reluctant to go on Test Deca for the long run at 33yo.

Would GH be a better alternative?

 

[BigTex]

Very interesting topic. I have osteoarthritis on both shoulder and my left knee. I have done the PRP/ Sodium Hyaluronate (Viscosup) injections in my knee two rounds so far and it has helped greatly. But the FDA will not approve it for the use in the shoulder so Medicare will not pay for it. Instead Medicare does cover TRIAMCINOLONE ACETONIDE NOS 10 MG injections. I had this done last December and the pain was completely gone in the left should and the right about 50% gone. The effects of the steroid injection has now worn off and the right shoulder is very painful day and especially at night. I have a 10ml bottle of nandrolone deconate 200mg/ml and guess I need to give it a try at 100mg/wk. I am taking Celebrex(200mg) and still have to take aspirin or ibuprofen to keep the pain down. Getting tired of not being able to sleep every night.

Yea Vince, the particle numbers worry me a little too. Mine are in very good shape right now and I sure don't want to mess that up.

 

[Jed Dorsey]

Celebrex did nothing for me I also did 5 sessions of acupuncture and nothing. 100 mg of nandrolone should help I have a lot of faith it will work for you. Good luck and report back!

 

[JimGainz]

I came off Nandrolone two weeks ago just to give my body a break and to prove that I could stop. Pain came raging back - all my old injuries that I had forgotten about while on Nandrolone were amplified (probably because while on Nandrolone I was able to lift harder with no issues). I plan to stay off for a bout 6 weeks and start set again.
in the meantime, to deal with the joint pain, I ordered this product: I have been doing research on ways to alleviate joint pain. Lots of studies on Fish oil but fish oil helps create these Specialized Pro Resolving Mediators (SPMs) so studies have shown remarkable anti inflammatory response by just taking the SPMs directly. I’ll post back if they work in a few weeks.

SPM Active®

Specialized pro-resolving mediators (SPMs) help promote resolution of inflammation after strenuous exercise. SPM Active supports the body’s natural capacity to respond to physical challenges.

www.metagenics.com

 

[JimGainz]

Very interesting topic. I have osteoarthritis on both shoulder and my left knee. I have done the PRP/ Sodium Hyaluronate (Viscosup) injections in my knee two rounds so far and it has helped greatly. But the FDA will not approve it for the use in the shoulder so Medicare will not pay for it. Instead Medicare does cover TRIAMCINOLONE ACETONIDE NOS 10 MG injections. I had this done last December and the pain was completely gone in the left should and the right about 50% gone. The effects of the steroid injection has now worn off and the right shoulder is very painful day and especially at night. I have a 10ml bottle of nandrolone deconate 200mg/ml and guess I need to give it a try at 100mg/wk. I am taking Celebrex(200mg) and still have to take aspirin or ibuprofen to keep the pain down. Getting tired of not being able to sleep every night.

Yea Vince, the particle numbers worry me a little too. Mine are in very good shape right now and I sure don't want to mess that up.

Nandrolone is only $100 for 12 weeks out of pocket. If you are still in pain, go to a clinic that will Rx you some and forget about submitting through Medicare. They will never pay for these drugs.

 

[JimGainz]

I also had a torn rotary cuff. Along with a torn bicep and bone spur on shoulder. My bicep was not a complete tear, and I did not know it was torn, no pain. I did lower my testosterone a lot, when I tried nandrolone. I used 20 mg of testosterone one day and then the next day I used 20 mg of nandrolone. Average weekly dose was 70 mg of testosterone and 70 mg of nandrolone.

I actually enjoy the experience and would continue using that protocol, if it wasn't for my cholesterol panel. It did not lower my HDL, but destroyed my particle numbers. Heart disease scares me, because of my family history. So I stopped the trial of nandrolone.

Are you taking a statin? Crestor may help with those values. I had pretty much zero hit to lipids on Nandrolone (and I had the most advanced blood test (Cleveland Heart Lab) which measures all forms of particle values and inflammatory markers - my results were “Optimal” despite taking nandrolone for years. My cardiologist attributes that to taking low dose statin, Vitamin D and also Coq10 but mostly the statin

 

[Vince]

Are you taking a statin? Crestor may help with those values. I had pretty much zero hit to lipids on Nandrolone (and I had the most advanced blood test (Cleveland Heart Lab) which measures all forms of particle values and inflammatory markers - my results were “Optimal” despite taking nandrolone for years. My cardiologist attributes that to taking low dose statin, Vitamin D and also Coq10 but mostly the statin

I also use Cleveland heart labs. I have a thread on their service. I do use many supplements including vitamin d CoQ10 high dose fish oil est.

 

[Vince]

Cleveland Heart Clinic Labs

I was just wondering if anyone uses Cleveland Heart Labs http://www.knowyourrisk.com/ My clinic http://advlip.com/ will now be using them for all Labs. Will also check my LDL oxidation. CHL is a spinoff of Cleveland Clinic, I know they do all the advanced tests and I believe they actually...

www.excelmale.com

 

[BigTex]

Nandrolone is only $100 for 12 weeks out of pocket. If you are still in pain, go to a clinic that will Rx you some and forget about submitting through Medicare. They will never pay for these drugs.

Thanks Jim! I have a 10cc bottle here at the house that is 200mg/ml. I used very little for an injury so I will give it a try. When I see my doctor next I will mention it. I submitted my test cypionate through Medicare and that actually covered it. I had no issues in paying cash for it because with GoodRx it is slightly cheaper than UG.