Optimum Testosterone Levels...... The truth...

[Belekas]

@Belekas. You should spend a day watching American TV, it one big pharma drug commercial after another. We have become the sickest country in the world taking pills for everything. Critical thinking is something that doesn't exist much in society.

Business is booming and better then ever hehe. Glad I haven't watched TV for years. It's a damn shame that they let this happen but IIWII and I doubt it will ever get better. Re critical thinking you're spot on as well, its pretty much gone. Big pharma, dirty politicians and all the companies involved are clapping hands, laughing and swimming in absurd amounts of money when around one bad thing after another is happening. I'm in the UK and a PT from my gym recently told me the new stats from city I live in. Small city around 80k people and 77 people from 100 are overweight. 45 from 100 kids <18yo as well. It's absolutely bonkers as well and very sad and don't see myself living here long-term.

It has all become one big comedy horror show that you can watch everyday without even turning the TV on smh

 

[BigO42]

I have one close friend who is not on trt and he tested his blood on testosterone.
He was just at 250TT but cant remember his FT. He feels perfectly fine. Has a great libido and he is a very optimistic guy.

Then there is this other guy i know from the gym who is also a natural guy. Just trains for fun and is all for natural training. He once tested his blood to and his TT came back at 280. FT was not tested. He claims he also feels good all the time. Has a good libido. No low t symptoms.

So yes there are guys who can be perfectly fine with low t. There is absolutely more to it then T only.

These are solid considerations. I've never done TRT but did clomid to raise my TT from ranging BTW 350-540 to 600-800. FT was BTW 10-14.5 & then 18-20 respectively. Did great for 4 years. Also did a low dose AI to make sure estradiol didnt get too high. After 4 years of feeling great when I had issues I am more convinced that it was related to the AI and low estradiol. I think people overlook estradiol a lot but I think it's a major ingredient when it comes to mood. I'm on nothing now and I'm focusing on diet, lifestyle, sleep and stress reduction.

 

[BigO42]

I have one close friend who is not on trt and he tested his blood on testosterone.
He was just at 250TT but cant remember his FT. He feels perfectly fine. Has a great libido and he is a very optimistic guy.

Then there is this other guy i know from the gym who is also a natural guy. Just trains for fun and is all for natural training. He once tested his blood to and his TT came back at 280. FT was not tested. He claims he also feels good all the time. Has a good libido. No low t symptoms.

So yes there are guys who can be perfectly fine with low t. There is absolutely more to it then T only.

I would also add that overtraining seems to be a big issue with me. I feel significant issues with fatigue, low mood and sleep when I try to hit like I didn't when I was 20 (37 now). But, we have all these websites, instagrammers and fitness gurus who push huge volume and probabaly aren't natty, or at least use T. Don't get me wrong, I know some natty people my age an older that are impressive. But when we talk about your great grandpa having higher T levels. . . Those generations weren't generally hitting the gym. They farmed, and often times daily life was strenuous and not sedentary, and didn't have all the processed seed oil based foods that we do now.

 

[Beken]

These are solid considerations. I've never done TRT but did clomid to raise my TT from ranging BTW 350-540 to 600-800. FT was BTW 10-14.5 & then 18-20 respectively. Did great for 4 years. Also did a low dose AI to make sure estradiol didnt get too high. After 4 years of feeling great when I had issues I am more convinced that it was related to the AI and low estradiol. I think people overlook estradiol a lot but I think it's a major ingredient when it comes to mood. I'm on nothing now and I'm focusing on diet, lifestyle, sleep and stress reduction.

I'm going to talk to my new doctor over at Defy about Clomid, Enclomiphene or nasal gels. I just stopped TRT due to side effects and I am already feeling better four days in... I am finally sleeping. I have been on opiates for over 10 years due to major back issues.. however God willing I should be totally off of them in 6-12 months.

Since I can not tolerate testosterone replacement... I want to possibly go on something like Clomid for a year. I hoping my testosterone levels return after being suppressed by the opiates for so long.

Clomid seems to get a bad rap... did you have any symptoms? As I stated at the beginning of the thread... I don't think I need much. I seem to be sensitive to medications. Heck I can hardly stand the energy rush from B vitamins. Any experience with any other medications that support natural production?

 

[Belekas]

I would also add that overtraining seems to be a big issue with me. I feel significant issues with fatigue, low mood and sleep when I try to hit like I didn't when I was 20 (37 now). But, we have all these websites, instagrammers and fitness gurus who push huge volume and probabaly aren't natty, or at least use T. Don't get me wrong, I know some natty people my age an older that are impressive. But when we talk about your great grandpa having higher T levels. . . Those generations weren't generally hitting the gym. They formed, and often times daily life was strenuous and not sedentary, and didn't have all the processed seed oil based foods that we do now.

Absolutely. I'm on the same page approaching 40 soon. Started training 2006 in my Eastern Europe sewer like gym that had nothing but animals, dumbells and barbells in there. The heart of it all. Could train 5d/week, recover and do it all again without much problem. Although used to eat up to 7-10k cal/day, cheat meals every day and 2k shakes just to get huge. Started test as I really came to the gym fucked up after many years abusing alchohol, drugs, and unhealthy lifestyle, wanted to get into the groove, rebuild myself and my habits quicker. Was still only 23. Built a great(i loved it) physique over the years but had to stop, get off test mid 2019 right before 2020 corona "plandemia" hit. Lost tons of muscle and it never just been the same. Now after 3+ years off jumped back on TRT and trying to find my old self. Like you say, I can crack a naught workout in the gym but then for a couple of days I'm destroyed doesn't matter how much I eat, sleep etc. Everything aches a lot more then in my 20s as well. Fatigue well that becomes second nature I guess and I got used to lower mood on these days, cuz I know my patterns and I use those days to learn more, study, work on my business and just try to relax with some brisk walking outside mixed in between. I could run back into the gym, do fasted cardio before breakfast etc like most IFBB pros suggest and I agree I do feel fantastic after it but that contributes to my overall fatigue longter-term and at this point in life and time for me "less is more" else I can trigger anxiety easily and that is just not worth it. I wish we could be in our 20s again, but thats not that simple as most fitness gurus and instagrammers wants us to believe and without PEDs, hell knows what else, thats rarely gonna happening and that will have detremental effect on the long-term health fwiw.

 

[BigO42]

I'm going to talk to my new doctor over at Defy about Clomid, Enclomiphene or nasal gels. I just stopped TRT due to side effects and I am already feeling better four days in... I am finally sleeping. I have been on opiates for over 10 years due to major back issues.. however God willing I should be totally off of them in 6-12 months.

Since I can not tolerate testosterone replacement... I want to possibly go on something like Clomid for a year. I hoping my testosterone levels return after being suppressed by the opiates for so long.

Clomid seems to get a bad rap... did you have any symptoms? As I stated at the beginning of the thread... I don't think I need much. I seem to be sensitive to medications. Heck I can hardly stand the energy rush from B vitamins. Any experience with any other medications that support natural production?

I did clomid for 4 and a half years. Started at a custom compounded 15 mg once every 3rd day with .08mg anastrozole once every 4-5 days. Felt awesome for a long time and cut clomid to 12.5 Mg evey 4th day about 2 years in and then even every 5th day sometimes. Still felt awesome. Total T came down from around 800 to mid 600's with the reduced frequency. Right at the 4 year mark I crashed and had major anxiety issues extremely suddenly, even panic attacks for a few weeks which ive never had. I've since stopped. Family doc thinks it was clomid. Consulted a psychiatrist and she thinks it wasn't. I had tons of major life stress that I'm not going to go into on a forum and so I am to trying to Isolate variables and figure what happened. I'm sure clomid contributed, but I honestly think it mightve more likely been low estrogen/ estrogen crashes due to the anastrozole.