New to the Forum, Starting HCG

[DorianGray]

Hi Everyone. Coming here after running across informative video from Nelson Vergel, very informed, eloquent speaker. I've begun taking HCG as a means to increase testosterone. Don't want to give me life history and bore you guys all in one shot so just to keep it as a simple intro. T is 546, free T on the low range of normal. I'm 5'10, 156lbs, healthy, no other meds, regular moderate exercise including weight lifting. Age 69. Currently I am getting HCG through telemedicine doc costing $174/12,000 IU(12ml) which is filled through Empower. Injection 30units, 2x/wk SQ. Only 2 doses so far. Is that a reasonable price? Anyway, I'll post progress and labs as things go along. Great to be here. Please post any advice or suggestions.

 

[Vince]

I don't think that protocol it's going to work for you. You're going to have to add in testosterone to get some decent levels.

I believe the price you pay for hCG is too high, you could call defy Medical. I believe their prices are better.

With total testosterone of 546, you're probably feel worse with just HCG.

 

[Systemlord]

You are 69 years old and doubt your testes are prime to function optimally as the leydig cells become less efficient as we get older. It's typical for guys making the switch from HCG to TRT to just plain feel better overall.

We have guys that no matter how good the levels look on paper, they just feel bad on HCG, few guys ultimately find success on HCG monotherapy.

 

[Cataceous]

It would be useful to have a measurement of SHBG to get a more accurate idea of free testosterone. The simple direct test cannot be trusted. I think it's a mistake to suppress your HPTA with hCG without knowing if you're actually hypogonadal. Even if your SHBG is an above-average 50 nMol/L your free testosterone would still be in the healthy normal range, and treatment likely would not address whatever symptoms you're having, and may introduce side effects.

 

[JayLay777]

Hi Everyone. Coming here after running across informative video from Nelson Vergel, very informed, eloquent speaker. I've begun taking HCG as a means to increase testosterone. Don't want to give me life history and bore you guys all in one shot so just to keep it as a simple intro. T is 546, free T on the low range of normal. I'm 5'10, 156lbs, healthy, no other meds, regular moderate exercise including weight lifting. Age 69. Currently I am getting HCG through telemedicine doc costing $174/12,000 IU(12ml) which is filled through Empower. Injection 30units, 2x/wk SQ. Only 2 doses so far. Is that a reasonable price? Anyway, I'll post progress and labs as things go along. Great to be here. Please post any advice or suggestions.

What is your reason for trying HCG ? Do you have low testosterone symptoms? What is your SHBG ?

 

[DorianGray]

I don't think that protocol it's going to work for you. You're going to have to add in testosterone to get some decent levels.

I believe the price you pay for hCG is too high, you could call defy Medical. I believe their prices are better.

With total testosterone of 546, you're probably feel worse with just HCG.

Thanks, Vince. And I will definitely look into Defy Medical. See my other replies here for strategy going forward.

You are 69 years old and doubt your testes are prime to function optimally as the leydig cells become less efficient as we get older. It's typical for guys making the switch from HCG to TRT to just plain feel better overall.

We have guys that no matter how good the levels look on paper, they just feel bad on HCG, few guys ultimately find success on HCG monotherapy.

Thanks Systemlord. One of the reason I considered HCG at all was the potential for combining with TRT also as I have tried that alone before.

It would be useful to have a measurement of SHBG to get a more accurate idea of free testosterone. The simple direct test cannot be trusted. I think it's a mistake to suppress your HPTA with hCG without knowing if you're actually hypogonadal. Even if your SHBG is an above-average 50 nMol/L your free testosterone would still be in the healthy normal range, and treatment likely would not address whatever symptoms you're having, and may introduce side effects.

Thanks for the input Cataceous. Suppressing HPTA would be a big concern for me. I'll add to the background a bit now.

I started TRT 2017 (Test Cypionate,inj.,supervised by MD) as standalone previously because of concerns about sarcopenia, mainly beginning signs of weakness/restlessness in legs and also decreased libido. Before treatment: Total T=702 ng/dL, Free T=9.7pg/mL, SHBG=65.2 nmol/L.

After about 1-1/2+ years, T shot up over 1500, but adjusted by MD to stabilize at T=935, Free T=17.4, SHBG=50.8. Felt good (but in general, I always feel good), but workouts noticeably easier, more muscle definition, maybe less chronic back pain. Disappointingly, libido didn't change at all. (note: happy marriage-39 years, minimal stress in life). But I started becoming concerned about testicular atrophy. So, I stopped TRT. Didn't feel any crash effects or anything other than started losing some muscle definition, veins in my arms less pronounced.

Now-lab 3/13/2020: T=576, Free T=7, I didn't do SHBG this time, but suspect it will be proportionally like before. I maintain workouts as previous but no gains and moderately not as easy as on TRT.

Anyway, after reading your comments, I would consider starting TRT again but would hope that HCG would help with gonadal shrinkage. Should I even wait for a period of time and keep using just HCG or go ahead and combine with restarting T?

 

[Vince]

Thanks, Vince. And I will definitely look into Defy Medical. See my other replies here for strategy going forward.


Thanks Systemlord. One of the reason I considered HCG at all was the potential for combining with TRT also as I have tried that alone before.


Thanks for the input Cataceous. Suppressing HPTA would be a big concern for me. I'll add to the background a bit now.

I started TRT 2017 (Test Cypionate,inj.,supervised by MD) as standalone previously because of concerns about sarcopenia, mainly beginning signs of weakness/restlessness in legs and also decreased libido. Before treatment: Total T=702 ng/dL, Free T=9.7pg/mL, SHBG=65.2 nmol/L.

After about 1-1/2+ years, T shot up over 1500, but adjusted by MD to stabilize at T=935, Free T=17.4, SHBG=50.8. Felt good (but in general, I always feel good), but workouts noticeably easier, more muscle definition, maybe less chronic back pain. Disappointingly, libido didn't change at all. (note: happy marriage-39 years, minimal stress in life). But I started becoming concerned about testicular atrophy. So, I stopped TRT. Didn't feel any crash effects or anything other than started losing some muscle definition, veins in my arms less pronounced.

Now-lab 3/13/2020: T=576, Free T=7, I didn't do SHBG this time, but suspect it will be proportionally like before. I maintain workouts as previous but no gains and moderately not as easy as on TRT.

Anyway, after reading your comments, I would consider starting TRT again but would hope that HCG would help with gonadal shrinkage. Should I even wait for a period of time and keep using just HCG or go ahead and combine with restarting T?

I'm 65 years old and can get really good workouts daily. I've been using HCG along with testosterone for over 5 years now. It keeps my testicles nice and full, my wife and I enjoy a very good sex life. I'm lucky that she really enjoys being intimate with me. I believe that HCG contributes to my good libido. When I first started trt, I started injecting 500 IU of HCG twice a week and I continued that protocol of HCG, for me it works great.

 

[Westin]

I pay $85 at a compounding pharmacy in AZ.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

I pay $6 for 5000iu fresh HCG (no need for reconstitution) here in India.

 

[DorianGray]

I'm 65 years old and can get really good workouts daily. I've been using HCG along with testosterone for over 5 years now. It keeps my testicles nice and full, my wife and I enjoy a very good sex life. I'm lucky that she really enjoys being intimate with me. I believe that HCG contributes to my good libido. When I first started trt, I started injecting 500 IU of HCG twice a week and I continued that protocol of HCG, for me it works great.

Your results are encouraging, Vince. I don't think we will ever understand the complex issue of sex drive and male hormones. We see young and old guys with low T and good libido, guys with high T and no libido, 80 year old guys not on HRT, still going like in their 40s. Figure this stuff out and you'll win a Nobel Prize.
Vince, I have other questions relative to HCG and T (follow up labs, etc.) so should I post them elsewhere in the forums going forward or continue on here?

I pay $85 at a compounding pharmacy in AZ.

Now that's what I call reasonable.

I pay $6 for 5000iu fresh HCG (no need for reconstitution) here in India.

So many other things in India are inexpensive and reliable even when importing them here in US. Even better if you live there.

 

[Vince]

Your results are encouraging, Vince. I don't think we will ever understand the complex issue of sex drive and male hormones. We see young and old guys with low T and good libido, guys with high T and no libido, 80 year old guys not on HRT, still going like in their 40s. Figure this stuff out and you'll win a Nobel Prize.
Vince, I have other questions relative to HCG and T (follow up labs, etc.) so should I post them elsewhere in the forums going forward or continue on here?



Now that's what I call reasonable.



So many other things in India are inexpensive and reliable even when importing them here in US. Even better if you live there.

You can add your question to this thread, if you want.

Vince's testosterone panel from 8/27/2019

I got my results back today from LabCorp. My protocol for the last 6 months, 18 mg of testosterone cypionate daily, 500 iu of HCG twice a week, pregnenolone 10 mg and dhea 25 mg daily. No AI. Testosterone, Serum 1165 Reference Range: 264-916 ng/dL Free Testosterone(Direct)...

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