New Muscle wasting interventions

[madhacker]

Hey guys,

I would like to bring up this topic to talk about new, safe interventions for muscle wasting disorders. I'm torn on the research of Nandrolone. I love it's beneficial effects on nitrogen retention, red blood cell production, bone density and a possible addition to TRT for controlling estrogen. Cons, I don't like the effects on cardiovascular, antioxidant defences, thyroid and visceral fat. These are my concerns in a nut shell, I'm aware of many more.

Nelson, if you read this what are your thoughts on the studies on Deca's effect on antioxidant defences? From my understanding they are only done using supraphysiological amounts of the doses, so I'm unsure what to think of the effect would be on lower dosages?

I don't believe it's worth bringing up GH at 6mg daily due to it's side effects and expense. Not to mention the dose is far beyond physiological.

In Dr. Hertoghe's book "Reverse Physical aging" he talks of a protocol for sarcopenia. I wanted to hear Nelson's thoughts as well as others!

Growth Hormone 0.1 - 0.5 mg/day
IGF 1 0.1 - 0.5 mg/day
HGH Fragments 176/177 0.1 - 0.5 mg/day
MGF 0.1 - 0.5 mg/day
Follistatin 0.1 - 0.5 mg/day

I feel that a protocol as such would only be indicated for mild muscular dystrophy?

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

I'm not familiar with muscle wasting disorders, but are you taking about something where strength training is not possible or has little affect, or a situation where you want something to add on top of strength training? Is there a re reason you zeroed in on Nandrolone other than other compounds? I would think the long-term affects of low-dose Nandrolone would be fairly well-known in the HIV community.

 

[madhacker]

I'm not familiar with muscle wasting disorders, but are you taking about something where strength training is not possible or has little affect, or a situation where you want something to add on top of strength training? Is there a re reason you zeroed in on Nandrolone other than other compounds? I would think the long-term affects of low-dose Nandrolone would be fairly well-known in the HIV community.

I chose Nandrolone because in my opinion it's the safest for long term use. Other synthetic derivatives of testosterones have to many potential side effects. The benefits may outweigh the risks in some severe cases of muscle wasting but I don't feel the benefits outweigh the risks for someone with sarcopenia or androgen resistance.

Oxandrolone- Significantly lowers HDL, potential liver alterations, low androgenic ratio based on safe doses. Than there is, Primobolan, Stanozolol etc. and GH as mentioned above.

The future may be gene therapy but current safe intentions may be pointing towards low dose of synthetic steroids combined with peptides that inhibit myostatin, PEG MGF and other peptide therapies that can increase nitrogen retention, activating muscle stem cells, increasing the upregulation of protein synthesis and creating new androgen receptors (GH).

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I would not waste my time with stuff that does not have any data behind it. Nandrolone plus testosterone is the way to go for wasting syndrome in men. Women can do OK with oxandrolone at 10 mg per day. I would also add ibutamoren since nothing works for appetite like it does.
Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin) Studies in Humans

Oral growth hormone enhancer MK-677 (ibutamoren)

 

[madhacker]

I would not waste my time with stuff that does not have any data behind it. Nandrolone plus testosterone is the way to go for wasting syndrome in men. Women can do OK with oxandrolone at 10 mg per day. I would also add ibutamoren since nothing works for appetite like it does.
Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin) Studies in Humans

Oral growth hormone enhancer MK-677 (ibutamoren)

Hi Nelson,

Thanks for your reply.

If Deca causes an increase in blood pressure, would you use a anabolic steroid that doesn't cause fluid retention? In your book you say that Stanozolol is more safe than Primobolan, do you still believe that? I understand that it's usage is limited to parts of Europe. Also, would you happen to know if Primobolan would improve or make insulin resistance worse? You mentioned in your book that liver toxic anabolic steroids make insulin resistance worse and some injectable improve insulin sensitivity.

Thanks for your response in advance!