Nandrolone Experiences

[DixieWrecked]

Gman coming through with some good subjective data! Thanks man.

How was sleep on these protocols?

 

[Steve78]

Maybe I didn’t see this addressed but what about the supposed cardiotoxity of nandrolone, there is the infamous study showing nandrolone was 11x more toxic to vascular endothelial than testosterone...

 

[DS3]

I’m currently on 200mg test and 125mg of nandrolone, along with 20mg of Oxandrolone sublingually pre workout 3x/ week, and 1mg of injectable progesterone before bed everyday. I would say energy is about the same on this protocol as it was on a nandrolone base. Mood is still really good. Libido is about the same. It’s weird, but there’s not much difference in everything now compared to using a nandrolone base, even tho these are two very different protocols. Only difference is that I feel like I’m noticing quite a few positive benefits from the progesterone, and most likely an increase in allopregnenolone. More calmness and being comfortable in social settings. Feeling more content with everything in my life. Just feeling more relaxed, but not lazy or anything. I really feel that progesterone might be a missing key for a lot of guys on TRT. But anyways, to answer ur question I don’t think I can say I notice much difference now compared to when I was using the nandrolone base, in regards to energy. Oh, u asked how the nandrolone only with low dose test compared to how I felt on test alone. But honestly I think about the same as when I was using test only as well. I know that’s a pretty boring answer lol, but I can’t think of my energy levels being any different on test only compared to a nandrolone base, or how they are currently

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing.

Have you experimented with oral versus injectable progesterone?

Did you feel that nandrolone provided any of the same calmness that progesterone does?

 

[Jason Sypolt]

However, in acting as a progestin, nandrolone is expected to down-regulate estrogen receptors.

Right. I have never seen estradiol increase on a TRT dose of Nandrolone. You can reasonably expect taking the drug to decrease estradiol which I have seen in others and myself as well.

 

[Gman86]

Right. I have never seen estradiol increase on a TRT dose of Nandrolone. You can reasonably expect taking the drug to decrease estradiol which I have seen in others and myself as well.

From what I’ve personally seen in labs, when a guy uses 300mg of nandrolone by itself, he can expect to see his E2 at around 5-6. Obv results may vary slightly, but that’s just anecdotally what I’ve seen. I’ve also seen a guy using 900mg of nandrolone only, and his E2 came back at 18, which correlated perfectly to the 3 men’s labs that were all using 300mg of nandrolone by itself, and those 3 men’s E2 ranged from 5-6.

 

[Gman86]

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing.

Have you experimented with oral versus injectable progesterone?

Did you feel that nandrolone provided any of the same calmness that progesterone does?

Anytime. And I’ve never taken oral prog. I think i took topical prog from empower for a short amount of time, but don’t think I gave it long enough. Don’t remember noticing anything from it good or bad. I just prefer injections for everything. I personally don’t like using creams. I find them inconvenient and it’s hard for me to stick to using them for long periods of time. I’ve tried topical prog, preg and test. Found them all too inconvenient to stick to. I think I’ve learned my lesson and will just stick with injectable forms of compounds whenever possible.

I’ve been on nandrolone for so long that it’s kind of hard to tell, but when I started my nandrolone based protocol it correlated with me going through the most stressful time of my life, and I remember being able to deal with everything surprisingly well, and always having a great mood and a feeling like everything is gonna be fine and just don’t stress or worry about things. So I think the nandrolone did bring a sense of calmness now that I think about it. I think my nandrolone based protocol was one of the best protocols to date in regards to how I felt overall. The only reason I discontinued it was because I was researching DHT and all its benefits, mostly in the brain, and it concerned me that I may not have enough DHT floating around. Plus, I’ve always heard that nandrolone is more suppressive to fertility, than test, and it kind of worried me that I might have a harder time conceiving when the time came. But overall a nandrolone based protocol is an amazing option for guys that really seem to struggle with controlling E2 and prolactin, imo. I know a lot of men that struggled for years on a test based HRT protocol, and feel amazing now on a nandrolone based protocol.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

From what I’ve personally seen in labs, when a guy uses 300mg of nandrolone by itself, he can expect to see his E2 at around 5-6. Obv results may vary slightly, but that’s just anecdotally what I’ve seen. I’ve also seen a guy using 900mg of nandrolone only, and his E2 came back at 18, which correlated perfectly to the 3 men’s labs that were all using 300mg of nandrolone by itself, and those 3 men’s E2 ranged from 5-6.

I don’t follow. You said an increase in aromatization. I wouldn’t call an E2 of 5-6 an increase of aromatization. And let’s throw out the fact that none of those doses are therapeutic. If you triple the dose from 300 to 900 then it isn’t very surprising that lab results reflect that. That is only an increase in ratio to the substance, not an increase in activity. If it were 200mg = 6 E2 and 300mg = 18 E2 then that would be different.

 

[Gman86]

Maybe I didn’t see this addressed but what about the supposed cardiotoxity of nandrolone, there is the infamous study showing nandrolone was 11x more toxic to vascular endothelial than testosterone...

I just wonder if nandrolone was 11x more toxic to vascular endothelial tissue due to it not converting to enough E2. We all know that without healthy E2 levels, testosterone itself can be very toxic to multiple areas of the body, including the cardiovascular system. With healthy E2 levels, test isn’t toxic. So I just wonder how much of the toxicity of nandrolone is due to the extremely low E2 levels that a person would have on nandrolone only, and how much can be tied to the compound directly.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

I don’t know why, but every time ND comes up as a topic it’s like all the rulers and protractors are brought out for some YouTube math.

 

[Gman86]

I don’t follow. You said an increase in aromatization. I wouldn’t call an E2 of 5-6 an increase of aromatization. And let’s throw out the fact that none of those doses are therapeutic. If you triple the dose from 300 to 900 then it isn’t very surprising that lab results reflect that. That is only an increase in ratio to the substance, not an increase in activity. If it were 200mg = 6 E2 and 300mg = 18 E2 then that would be different.

Nandrolone supposedly increases the aromatization rate of testosterone into E2, when used in conjunction with test. Nandrolone itself coverts extremely little into E2.

From what I’ve seen, men using 300mg of nandrolone by itself had an E2 of 5-6. The guy using 900mg of nandrolone only had an E2 of 18. The guy using 900mg was using exactly triple the dose of the other guys, and had triple the E2 level. So from what I’ve seen, for every 300mg of nandrolone only, a guy can expect to see an increase around 5-6 points in his E2 level.

So if a person was to add say 100mg of nandrolone to his TRT, I would imagine he could expect to see either no change in his E2 levels, or possibly a point or two increase.

 

[Steve78]

I don’t know why, but every time ND comes up as a topic it’s like all the rulers and protractors are brought out for some YouTube math.

So you think nandrolone is pretty safe to use, generally speaking?

 

[JA Battle]

I just wonder if nandrolone was 11x more toxic to vascular endothelial tissue due to it not converting to enough E2. We all know that without healthy E2 levels, testosterone itself can be very toxic to multiple areas of the body, including the cardiovascular system. With healthy E2 levels, test isn’t toxic. So I just wonder how much of the toxicity of nandrolone is due to the extremely low E2 levels that a person would have on nandrolone only, and how much can be tied to the compound directly.

This is exactly the primary issue with nandrolone. There is not a sufficient enough e2 for e2 receptor activation in balance with activation of the androgen receptor.

For example, one could use exogenous e2 (say 50 mcg of esterfied estradiol valerate or enanthate) with nandrolone and would not suffer the endothelial toxicity and neurotoxicity that is wrongfully commonly attributed to nandrolone.


I’d say an even more metabolically complete hormone replacement scenario would also include 250-750mcg of esterfied dht such as dht valerate or enanthate.

With this scenario the desired e2 and dht can be tailored to the individuals tolerance/goals. I’ve done similar manipulation with each of the respective metabolites but still was using test as my base so I did not need to introduce as much of each specific metabolite due to a fragment of the testosterone endogenously converting to each of them respectively.

 

[Gman86]

This is exactly the primary issue with nandrolone. There is not a sufficient enough e2 for e2 receptor activation in balance with activation of the androgen receptor.

For example, one could use exogenous e2 (say 50 mcg of esterfied estradiol valerate or enanthate) with nandrolone and would not suffer the endothelial toxicity and neurotoxicity that is wrongfully commonly attributed to nandrolone.


I’d say an even more metabolically complete hormone replacement scenario would also include 250-750mcg of esterfied dht such as dht valerate or enanthate.

With this scenario the desired e2 and dht can be tailored to the individuals tolerance/goals. I’ve done similar manipulation with each of the respective metabolites but still was using test as my base so I did not need to introduce as much of each specific metabolite due to a fragment of the testosterone endogenously converting to each of them respectively.

I was gonna say, instead of supplementing with DHT and E2 directly, one could just add test in and get both metabolites from one compound. But makes sense to supplement both if one wanted to dial in each hormone separately. For example, if someone had plenty of the aromatase enzyme but lacked in 5ar enzymes, or vice versa

I just wish someone could do a simple study where they give one group a specific amount of nandrolone only, in the hormone replacement range, and then give another group the same amount of nandrolone, but also give them exogenous E2 and make sure their E2 is in a healthy range, and finally find out if the toxicity applies to both groups, or just the group on nandrolone only. To take it a step further, I would imagine there should be a 3rd group that takes the same amount of nandrolone, as well as exogenous E2, and exogenous dht, to figure out if the lack of dht, when using nandrolone only, is also playing a role in some of the toxicity it’s known for, specifically in regards to neurotoxicity

 

[JA Battle]

I think th

I was gonna say, instead of supplementing with DHT and E2 directly, one could just add test in and get both metabolites from one compound. But makes sense to supplement both if one wanted to dial in each hormone separately. For example, if someone had plenty of the aromatase enzyme but lacked in 5ar enzymes, or vice versa

I just wish someone could do a simple study where they give one group a specific amount of nandrolone only, in the hormone replacement range, and then give another group the same amount of nandrolone, but also give them exogenous E2 and make sure their E2 is in a healthy range, and finally find out if the toxicity applies to both groups, or just the group on nandrolone only. To take it a step further, I would imagine there should be a 3rd group that takes the same amount of nandrolone, as well as exogenous E2, and exogenous dht, to figure out if the lack of dht, when using nandrolone only, is also playing a role in some of the toxicity it’s known for, specifically in regards to neurotoxicity

Nandrolone is quite selective to muscle tissue quite like testosterone. If you rule of 5ar and aromatase nandrolone and testosterone would behave very similarly. This study would play out exactly as we think. These other metabolites are needed to be healthy. Use e2 and dht with nandrolone and it would be a rather metabolically complete solution to hormone replacement. Im not going to do it but much of the issue with nandrolone is the lack of metabolites. Not nandrolone itself.

Many a meathead have found that running nandrolone with a dht derivative and some testosterone improves their decadick and overall experience.

Even amongst those without the science have human intuition and get close to solutions that are actually workable.

 

[Gman86]

I think th


Nandrolone is quite selective to muscle tissue quite like testosterone. If you rule of 5ar and aromatase nandrolone and testosterone would behave very similarly. This study would play out exactly as we think. These other metabolites are needed to be healthy. Use e2 and dht with nandrolone and it would be a rather metabolically complete solution to hormone replacement. Im not going to do it but much of the issue with nandrolone is the lack of metabolites. Not nandrolone itself.

Many a meathead have found that running nandrolone with a dht derivative and some testosterone improves their decadick and overall experience.

Even amongst those without the science have human intuition and get close to solutions that are actually workable.

I agree. And just for the record, my erections were a 12/10 while on a nandrolone base. I remember my libido being like a 6-7/10, where it currently is now, but I’ve never had erections as good as when I was on a nandrolone base. They’re not bad now, but I specifically remember erections being a 12/10, on demand, and for as long as I needed them during sex. Literally the opposite of deca d*ck. I’ve never done nandrolone by itself tho. Nandrolone by itself might be a different story

 

[DS3]

Nandrolone Decanoate: The Devil in Disguise? Can You Add Deca to Testosterone in HRT?

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[S1W]

So you think nandrolone is pretty safe to use, generally speaking?

I know you've asked this question several times and have not really received a direct yes or no answer. The reason is likely because nobody can really say with absolute certainty.

The use of nandrolone in TRT is a relatively new thing. Of course it has been used in bodybuilding for a long time. I have used nandrolone as part of TRT to address specific issues - joint pain, etc. It works pretty well in terms of addressing those specific issues.

However, if I was 100% focused on longevity and overall health and well-being, I would avoid it and just stick with low dose testosterone.

 

[Gman86]

Here’s an interview with dr Lichten who talks a lot about the positive benefits of nandrolone. This is obv only one doctors’s opinions and experiences with using it in his practice, but he’s been using low dose nandrolone for many many years in his practice, with good results. I haven’t seen one bit of evidence that shows any negatives from nandrolone in a state where the person has sufficient E2. So until I do, I don’t think nandrolone should be feared, in regards to long term use. Again, as long as the person has healthy levels of E2, as well as healthy levels of DHT, ideally, and they keep their dose relatively low. But I can see men proceeding with caution with this compound. I personally choose to use it indefinitely, until I see evidence showing that it can cause harm in a person where E2 and DHT are both at healthy levels, while concurrent using nandrolone.

 

[Steve78]

I know you've asked this question several times and have not really received a direct yes or no answer. The reason is likely because nobody can really say with absolute certainty.

The use of nandrolone in TRT is a relatively new thing. Of course it has been used in bodybuilding for a long time. I have used nandrolone as part of TRT to address specific issues - joint pain, etc. It works pretty well in terms of addressing those specific issues.

However, if I was 100% focused on longevity and overall health and well-being, I would avoid it and just stick with low dose testosterone.

Totally agree.
Other question is what TT is ideal for longevity? My cardiologist says 500 TT, buy I also read that T has anti inflammatory affects... so I was thinking 800 personally. Only paper I saw was from Australia that said older men lived longer 3-500 range.

 

[Steve78]

Here’s an interview with dr Lichten who talks a lot about the positive benefits of nandrolone. This is obv only one doctors’s opinions and experiences with using it in his practice, but he’s been using low dose nandrolone for many many years in his practice, with good results. I haven’t seen one bit of evidence that shows any negatives from nandrolone in a state where the person has sufficient E2. So until I do, I don’t think nandrolone should be feared, in regards to long term use. Again, as long as the person has healthy levels of E2, as well as healthy levels of DHT, ideally, and they keep their dose relatively low. But I can see men proceeding with caution with this compound. I personally choose to use it indefinitely, until I see evidence showing that it can cause harm in a person where E2 and DHT are both at healthy levels, while concurrent using nandrolone.

Thank you, but for me, I’m cynical, esp when the docs who prescribe it make money doing so.