Minimum Dosage or freq for low SHBG

[AdamYoung]

Thanks SlickTop,
I live in canada so its little hard to get prescription but i heard about it but dint do much research. I did quick search and came to know that it doesnt not convert to estrogen or DHT. So, I have couple of quick question.
1)Does that mean HPTA axis will not be shut down right?
2) Can we use long term?
3) So basically we will be having low Testosterone in the blood but we will not be having low T symtoms right? Bcas Nandrolone will overcome those symtoms.
4) It should not impact fertility bcas of no suppression of LH n FSH hormones?

 

[madman]

I'm on the lower side of SHBG, typically 17-25. If you're with Defy, consider adding in nandrolone and dropping your testosterone. Long story short, nandrolone does 99% of what testosterone does and zero aromatization. I've been able to drop my AI completely thanks to this switch.

So are you saying estradiol plays a minor role here?

As I have stated numerous times on the forum we need to tread lightly when trying to manipulate testosterone metabolites estradiol and DHT as they are needed in healthy amounts and are critical to our overall health.

Estradiol and DHT are needed in healthy amounts to experience the full spectrum of testosterones beneficial effects on mood, energy, libido, erectile function, cardiovascular health, brain, bones, tendons, immune system, body composition, and recovery.

I would take testosterone any day over nandrolone whether for trt or if one were using it to gain muscle mass/strength for bodybuilding purposes.

High test/high e2 all day every day!

That is just me though.

Even with one having low SHBG having healthy e2 levels is still critical but one would need to find what level suits them best.

I would never use nandrolone solo though even if I had low SHBG.

 

[slicktop]

Thanks SlickTop,
I live in canada so its little hard to get prescription but i heard about it but dint do much research. I did quick search and came to know that it doesnt not convert to estrogen or DHT. So, I have couple of quick question.
1)Does that mean HPTA axis will not be shut down right? Still will shut down without HCG, your body effectively sees nandrolone as testosterone (with some exceptions, of course)
2) Can we use long term? most men can, yes
3) So basically we will be having low Testosterone in the blood but we will not be having low T symtoms right? Bcas Nandrolone will overcome those symtoms. Not low testosterone, no. Ideally, your blood testosterone level will still show at whatever level is ideal for you, as even the test can't distinguish testosterone from nandrolone.
4) It should not impact fertility bcas of no suppression of LH n FSH hormones? No, it still will impact fertility. HCG will still be needed if you're concerned about those downstream events.

Basically, lets say you have been taking 20mg a day of testosterone cypionate, and everything is great except your estrogen is a bit high. Instead, you now take 10mg of cypionate and 10mg of nandrolone. Your body still has all the "man juice" it needs, but you've eliminated 50% of what it can convert to estrogen. The other bonus is nandrolone doesn't have the same affinity to cause muscle growth we DON'T want (you heart, for example) but still allows you to build other muscles you DO want to work on. Get the combination right for your own body chemistry, and it's a win/win.

 

[slicktop]

So are you saying estradiol plays a minor role here?

Testosterone metabolites dht and estradiol are needed in healthy amounts to experience the full spectrum of beneficial effects.

Healthy levels of estradiol are critical in men as it plays a strong role in overall health (brain, bone, cardiovascular, immune, libido).

I would take testosterone any day over nandrolone whether for trt or if one were using it to gain muscle mass/strength for bodybuilding purposes.

High test/high e2 all day every day!

That is just me though.

Even with one having low SHBG having healthy e2 levels is still critical but one would need to find what level suits them best.

I would never use nandrolone solo though even if I had low SHBG.

No sir, I am not advocating nandrolone in place of testosterone, but rather to complement it. I cannot tolerate high estrogen. I am NOT one of those guys that "gets used" to their estrogen being super high. I tried, I was miserable. Taking both nandrolone and test enanthate keeps my t where I want it without spiking my estrogen too high, and I no longer need AI.

 

[AdamYoung]

Thanks Slicktop,
I understand your viewpoint. Sounds like perfect combination to combat estrogen n excess dht. I get rapid heart beat due to high estrogen. Also its a good idea not to use AI. I am trying to manage without AI by reducing the testosterone to 10mg per day, if this doesnt work then ill try 10 mg of deca and 10mg test EOD along with 250iu HCG 3 times a week.

 

[Gunga]

I'm on the lower side of SHBG, typically 17-25. If you're with Defy, consider adding in nandrolone and dropping your testosterone. Long story short, nandrolone does 99% of what testosterone does and zero aromatization. I've been able to drop my AI completely thanks to this switch.

Interesting. Slick top whats your protocol if I may ask. I’m low SHBG and interested in getting off my AI dose of .125 twice weekly. If I inject 10 mgs daily would I now inject 5mgs of each daily?

 

[eyeheartny]

I'm on the lower side of SHBG, typically 17-25. If you're with Defy, consider adding in nandrolone and dropping your testosterone. Long story short, nandrolone does 99% of what testosterone does and zero aromatization. I've been able to drop my AI completely thanks to this switch.

What dose of testosterone are you using with nandrolone? How long have you been on? I had a disastrous experiment with nandrolone.

 

[AdamYoung]

Interesting. Slick top whats your protocol if I may ask. I’m low SHBG and interested in getting off my AI dose of .125 twice weekly. If I inject 10 mgs daily would I now inject 5mgs of each daily?

Hi Gunga,
What else are you using along with testosterone? I thought 10mg per day is minimum you can use without aromatizing too much into estrogen

 

[Gunga]

Hi Gunga,
What else are you using along with testosterone? I thought 10mg per day is minimum you can use without aromatizing too much into estrogen

AdamYoung I am on 10 mgs Test Cyp daily. In addition I was on 2 clicks of 100mg/ml cream applied to scrotum. This week I’ve reduced it to 1 click in an effort to reduce Estradiol a bit more. I’m also on .125 Armidex twice weekly and HCG 250 iu twice weekly.

my labs hit my mailbox yesterday:

morning trough readings

Total Test 64
Free T 25.4
Estradiol 38.6

My last SHBG was 15.6

Id love to lose the AI and Nandrolone might be the answer. I’m not worried about reduced DHT conversion as the cream takes care of that.

 

[Gunga]

AdamYoung I am on 10 mgs Test Cyp daily. In addition I was on 2 clicks of 100mg/ml cream applied to scrotum. This week I’ve reduced it to 1 click in an effort to reduce Estradiol a bit more. I’m also on .125 Armidex twice weekly and HCG 250 iu twice weekly.

my labs hit my mailbox yesterday:

morning trough readings

Total Test 64
Free T 25.4
Estradiol 38.6

My last SHBG was 15.6

Id love to lose the AI and Nandrolone might be the answer. I’m not worried about reduced DHT conversion as the cream takes care of that.

Correction

Total Test 640

 

[AdamYoung]

AdamYoung I am on 10 mgs Test Cyp daily. In addition I was on 2 clicks of 100mg/ml cream applied to scrotum. This week I’ve reduced it to 1 click in an effort to reduce Estradiol a bit more. I’m also on .125 Armidex twice weekly and HCG 250 iu twice weekly.

my labs hit my mailbox yesterday:

morning trough readings

Total Test 64
Free T 25.4
Estradiol 38.6

My last SHBG was 15.6

Id love to lose the AI and Nandrolone might be the answer. I’m not worried about reduced DHT conversion as the cream takes care of that.

So all your results look good. So whats the normal estrogen level? Sorry i am from canada so its different reading here. So i believe its 40 is the normal high right?
So, Are you having any high estrogen symtoms?

 

[Gunga]

So all your results look good. So whats the normal estrogen level? Sorry i am from canada so its different reading here. So i believe its 40 is the normal high right?
So, Are you having any high estrogen symtoms?

I’m pretty sensitive to Estrogen probably because of my SHBG. I’ve been at this for 7 years and after much trial and error have found I’m best with estradiol around 30 pg/ml. I know it seems crazy that you feel differently from that small variation but I do. I’m just a little spooked of the AI and would love to lose it completely. I love the cream plus injection protocol though. I’m also supplementing DHEA and Pregnenolone as well.

 

[AdamYoung]

I’m pretty sensitive to Estrogen probably because of my SHBG. I’ve been at this for 7 years and after much trial and error have found I’m best with estradiol around 30 pg/ml. I know it seems crazy that you feel differently from that small variation but I do. I’m just a little spooked of the AI and would love to lose it completely. I love the cream plus injection protocol though. I’m also supplementing DHEA and Pregnenolone as well.

So Are you planning to increase AI? Looks like HCG might be aromatizing. Currently i am using 10mg test with 200iu hcg 3 times week and 0.5mg Armidex EOD as my SHBG is below normal. I am feeling good after daily injection. So now i am planning to cut Armidex for a month and check my estrogen levels. In my case, i dont think so HCG is aromatising bcas my testicles are not functioning properly. I am primary hypogonadiam

 

[Gunga]

So Are you planning to increase AI? Looks like HCG might be aromatizing. Currently i am using 10mg test with 200iu hcg 3 times week and 0.5mg Armidex EOD as my SHBG is below normal. I am feeling good after daily injection. So now i am planning to cut Armidex for a month and check my estrogen levels. In my case, i dont think so HCG is aromatising bcas my testicles are not functioning properly. I am primary hypogonadiam

I’ve lowered my cream dose from 2 to 1 clicks. I’m hoping that will do the trick in reducing Estradiol. I’m not going to raise my AI dose. If that doesn’t work I’ll try the nandrolone idea. Best of luck to you.

 

[Tman]

Thanks Slicktop,
I understand your viewpoint. Sounds like perfect combination to combat estrogen n excess dht. I get rapid heart beat due to high estrogen. Also its a good idea not to use AI. I am trying to manage without AI by reducing the testosterone to 10mg per day, if this doesnt work then ill try 20mg of deca and 10mg test EOD along with 250iu HCG 3 times a week.

I re comment ditching the hcg before making other major changes, if e is an issue.

 

[antelopers]

I’m not a low shbg guy. My current protocol is 20 mg of nandrolone every other day, testosterone cyp 20 mg every other day and 500 iu of hcg twice a week. So even though I’m not a low shbg guy, Right now I’m only injecting 70 MG of testosterone weekly.

I do think daily injections of 10 MG daily should work for you.

How's the nandrolone working out for you?

 

[Vince]

How's the nandrolone working out for you?

I know my dose of Nandrolone and testosterone is low. But it's working for good for me, I'll see how it goes. Hopefully I won't have to make any adjustments. For some reason, I believe the Nandrolone is giving me a sense of well-being. I am feeling good physically, the mental part is what I am really enjoying.

 

[slicktop]

What dose of testosterone are you using with nandrolone? How long have you been on? I had a disastrous experiment with nandrolone.

Sorry for the late response, gents. I was taking 8ml/16mg each of test and nandrolone, taken daily, and that had my T at 1482. I thought that was too high even though I felt perfectly awesome so I've dropped it down to 12mg of each and I'll retest in three months.

 

[Gunga]

Sorry for the late response, gents. I was taking 8ml/16mg each of test and nandrolone, taken daily, and that had my T at 1482. I thought that was too high even though I felt perfectly awesome so I've dropped it down to 12mg of each and I'll retest in three months.

If I am currently on 10mgs test Cyp daily would I reduce Cyp to 5mgs and then replace the other 5mgs with Nandrolone or did you just add Nandrolone on top of your Testosterone dose?

 

[slicktop]

If I am currently on 10mgs test Cyp daily would I reduce Cyp to 5mgs and then replace the other 5mgs with Nandrolone...

that is essentially what I am doing now. When I started the nandrolone, they had me slightly reduce the test and add the nandrolone; that has proven to be a bit much and I'm now going back to where the total dose in mg/week will be what I was on before, but split evenly between test and nandrolone. I was having no ill effects at the elevated testosterone levels, but I don't think I need to be over 1400, either.