Looking for advice, opinions and experiences

[LukeAndrews39]

Looking for advice and other's experience and opinions.
My total T has been anywhere between 253 and 325 for the past few years...SHBG around 21-23 consistently.

My doctor prescribed 100mg test cyp to start out, but left it up to me on how to split the dose and whether to pin IM or SubQ etc then follow up labs 8 weeks later and adjust as needed.

It's been about 2 years and I've never taken the 1st shot, but he said I'm still free to start if/when I'm ready.

The ONLY reason I haven't, is that I've had panic disorder (random panic attacks) throughout life (which I am medicated for). I have OCD also (more of just my mind constantly turning) I'm worried that the test shots could cause them to flare back up... Anyone else have any experience with this?

From age 17 through 29, I didn't have a single panic attack, but plenty of them before and after...which 17-29 my T would have been highest, so I also wonder if that could be the reason itself?

I'm currently 39 years old
6'4" 260lbs
Muscular but definitely overweight ( years of lifting history)
Desk job
Low in D3 (low 30s)
Last labs had TT at 317
FT 2.3%
SHBG 23
E2 26
Everything else looked normal

Should I start? IM, SubQ? What dose frequency etc? I have 29g 1/2" pins and 30g 3/8"...both are .3cc
Should I not start, and focus on lifestyle changes?

Advice, opinions and recommendations greatly appreciated!

 

[Cataceous]

It sounds like your doctor is pretty good to work with. I wonder if he would be willing to let you try enclomiphene. Assuming you're US-based you'd just need to see if Tailor Made Pharmacy can ship to your state. The potential advantage of enclomiphene over TRT is that it keeps your system working more naturally; it encourages your body to make more testosterone on its own. If the results aren't good enough then you can always move on to TRT. TRT suppresses numerous hormones (kisspeptin, GnRH, LH, FSH), which in some cases leads to other side effects.

 

[Gman86]

Looking for advice and other's experience and opinions.
My total T has been anywhere between 253 and 325 for the past few years...SHBG around 21-23 consistently.

My doctor prescribed 100mg test cyp to start out, but left it up to me on how to split the dose and whether to pin IM or SubQ etc then follow up labs 8 weeks later and adjust as needed.

It's been about 2 years and I've never taken the 1st shot, but he said I'm still free to start if/when I'm ready.

The ONLY reason I haven't, is that I've had panic disorder (random panic attacks) throughout life (which I am medicated for). I have OCD also (more of just my mind constantly turning) I'm worried that the test shots could cause them to flare back up... Anyone else have any experience with this?

From age 17 through 29, I didn't have a single panic attack, but plenty of them before and after...which 17-29 my T would have been highest, so I also wonder if that could be the reason itself?

I'm currently 39 years old
6'4" 260lbs
Muscular but definitely overweight ( years of lifting history)
Desk job
Low in D3 (low 30s)
Last labs had TT at 317
FT 2.3%
SHBG 23
E2 26
Everything else looked normal

Should I start? IM, SubQ? What dose frequency etc? I have 29g 1/2" pins and 30g 3/8"...both are .3cc
Should I not start, and focus on lifestyle changes?

Advice, opinions and recommendations greatly appreciated!

I would definitely start, if I were u. But I’m of the opinion that life is just better on HRT, opposed to having natural levels that drop anytime ur stressed, don’t sleep well, don’t eat well, etc. Life’s just so much better with consistently great androgen levels. And at 39, I don’t see any reason to not start. Having balanced and optimal testosterone levels will usually decrease anxiety and panic attack disorders. In rare cases it may make them worse, but imo those people just aren’t dialed in, and dialing in should eliminate any anxiety ur experiencing. The body will always function better with optimal testosterone levels, not worse, so I wouldn’t worry about things getting worse. I would start and look forward to things improving.

 

[LukeAndrews39]

It sounds like your doctor is pretty good to work with. I wonder if he would be willing to let you try enclomiphene. Assuming you're US-based you'd just need to see if Tailor Made Pharmacy can ship to your state. The potential advantage of enclomiphene over TRT is that it keeps your system working more naturally; it encourages your body to make more testosterone on its own. If the results aren't good enough then you can always move on to TRT. TRT suppresses numerous hormones (kisspeptin, GnRH, LH, FSH), which in some cases leads to other side effects.

Is that the same thing or similar to clomid?

 

[LukeAndrews39]

I would definitely start, if I were u. But I’m of the opinion that life is just better on HRT, opposed to having natural levels that drop anytime ur stressed, don’t sleep well, don’t eat well, etc. Life’s just so much better with consistently great androgen levels. And at 39, I don’t see any reason to not start. Having balanced and optimal testosterone levels will usually decrease anxiety and panic attack disorders. In rare cases it may make them worse, but imo those people just aren’t dialed in, and dialing in should eliminate any anxiety ur experiencing. The body will always function better with optimal testosterone levels, not worse, so I wouldn’t worry about things getting worse. I would start and look forward to things improving.

I've WANTED to start this whole time, and I've read a LOT over the past few years. I know more people have success than those that it makes panic worse for...but it is/has still been the one thing that's kept me from starting.

No fear of needles, I'm done having kids etc...just the fear that it'll bring on the panic that I've been able to keep away

 

[Cataceous]

Is that the same thing or similar to clomid?

Yes, enclomiphene is one of the two isomers of Clomid. The other isomer, zuclomiphene, is estrogenic and is likely to be unhelpful in general. Only in recent years has enclomiphene been offered as a separate product.

You don't mention if retaining fertility is important to you, but if so then that's another potential advantage of enclomiphene over TRT.

 

[LukeAndrews39]

Yes, enclomiphene is one of the two isomers of Clomid. The other isomer, zuclomiphene, is estrogenic and is likely to be unhelpful in general. Only in recent years has enclomiphene been offered as a separate product.

You don't mention if retaining fertility is important to you, but if so then that's another potential advantage of enclomiphene over TRT.

I'm done having kids, so that part isn't an issue with me. I just want to feel my best, get my #s back into a healthy range and not worry about panic attacks! Lol simple, right?

 

[MarcoFL]

Good morning Luke! I would also do something about your low Vit D. This can create a lot of issues. Wish you all the best!

 

[LukeAndrews39]

Good morning Luke! I would also do something about your low Vit D. This can create a lot of issues. Wish you all the best!

I've began taking 5k per day plus what is in my multivitamin

 

[LukeAndrews39]

Yes, enclomiphene is one of the two isomers of Clomid. The other isomer, zuclomiphene, is estrogenic and is likely to be unhelpful in general. Only in recent years has enclomiphene been offered as a separate product.

You don't mention if retaining fertility is important to you, but if so then that's another potential advantage of enclomiphene over TRT.

Have you taken this yourself? What result and how did you feel, if so? Where can you find it?

 

[Cataceous]

Have you taken this yourself? What result and how did you feel, if so? Where can you find it?

I am taking enclomiphene, though in a different context than yours, so my experience isn't as applicable. Nonetheless, I can say I've had no negative side effects while taking 12.5 mg daily. It has been effective in stimulating LH and FSH production.

Somebody else mentioned that there are two sources for pharmaceutical grade enclomiphene, but the only one I'm aware of is Tailor Made Compounding Pharmacy.

 

[fifty]

100mg per week. Try it. You can always stop if you don’t like it.

 

[LukeAndrews39]

100mg per week. Try it. You can always stop if you don’t like it.

I've thought about it like that before...but then worry that by the time i know if it works for me or not (4-8 weeks average?) that i'll be shutdown if i come off and feel worse than i do now...
I've talked to guys who say that going off doesnt feel as bad as the stories you read online...but others who say it is miserable... so i guess that part has me torn on what to do, also.

If i did the 100 per week, would you suggest IM or SubQ? I've seen some guys who prefer each...some that say there is no difference...and some who say they get horrible sides on SubQ

 

[fifty]

You’d be shutdown and might feel worse for a couple weeks. You could just cold turkey it at that point and be fine.

Subq is way easier but I think IM is more effective and more predictable.

 

[Cataceous]

A clinical trial found comparable results between IM and subQ injections. The apparent half-life for subQ is a bit longer. In this case I must differ from @fifty because I do not believe that IM is either more effective or more predictable than subQ. Why poke holes in your muscles if you don't have to?

 

[fifty]

I said subq is way easier

People have been doing IM for 70 years. Some guys will say the longer the needle the better.

There are studies and there is real life. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

 

[LukeAndrews39]

if i knew all things would be equal, i'd prefer subq for sure...small daily doses...but dunno how low to start (the lowest that makes me feel good, is my goal)...figure with low SHBG and the ocd/panic, that lower may be better anyhow?

 

[fifty]

Ask @sh1973 and @Cataceous then mix their two answers together

My opinions which are not always popular...from what you've posted so far. 80mg once per week subq. That way you will be able to notice your peaks & troughs, subq is easier than im, etc.

While multiple times per week is good for stable levels of testosterone, you don't really learn a whole lot off the bat because you're stuck at a certain serum testosterone concentration the entire time.

Once you learn how you're body feels, I'm all for doing ~10mg daily but to start off, weekly's are decent. Your levels will hit 1000 probably the first day or so then by day 7 you will be back down to around 400. Take notes on how you feel.

My numbers are just off the cuff but you can use roidcalc or whatever people use currently to estimate your levels each day. Use this SteroidPlotter - Graph your cycle

 

[fifty]

Also note that being obese vs non-obese may affect your levels after injection. Note this study (though on hcg) especially the graph at the bottom comparing im/subq and obese/non-obese: Bioavailability of hCG after intramuscular or subcutaneous injection in obese and non‐obese women

 

[LukeAndrews39]

Also note that being obese vs non-obese may affect your levels after injection. Note this study (though on hcg) especially the graph at the bottom comparing im/subq and obese/non-obese: Bioavailability of hCG after intramuscular or subcutaneous injection in obese and non‐obese women

Thanks for the help and info!

As someone with a desk job who needs to lose about 40lbs, eats too much junk...and hasnt lifted seriously at all since my daughter was born (2 and a half years ago)...has low vitamin D and low B12 (though i dont think b12 matters as much for T)... How much do you think i could realistically raise my #s naturally if i:

Fixed my sleep schedule
Lost the extra 40 lbs
Fixed the vitamin D levels
Fix the diet
Start lifting and exercising regularly again

I know no one "knows" for sure...but my last test was 363 (up from 256 6 months before...i had lost 20lbs and been taking vitamin D daily)... my highest ever test was around 550 (about 6 years ago) but taken later in the day (i was lighter then, but diet and sleep was absolute crap).

No way to know unless i actually try it/do it...but would you suggest i do all of this before starting? What would be a realistic expectation for natural #s?