Kisspeptin 10 for sex drive

[James3231]

Hi,

has anyone got any experience using this to solely increase sex drive?

Recently my sex drive has suddenly vanished which has also caused me to have ED so I’ve been researching and researching and came across K10. It’s not readily available here in the U.K. so I would have to order it online to be delivered.

Has anyone experienced increase in sex drive using just this?

Thank you.

 

[Cataceous]

Are you on TRT? If so, have you exhausted other options, including dose adjustments, trying hCG, normalizing progesterone, normalizing prolactin, etc.? I would look into gonadorelin before trying kisspeptin.

If you're not on TRT then you need comprehensive lab work before trying to treat yourself:

Few Common Tests That Men Pull - Peak Testosterone

Two very common questions I get on my forum are "If I suspect low testosterone, what tests should I get?"and "What testosterone tests will my doctor likely order?"

www.peaktestosterone.com

Problems such as low testosterone or high prolactin have validated treatments, which should be tried before going with something experimental, like kisspeptin.

If you're just looking for anecdotes then one is that kisspeptin use appeared to correlate with improved erectile function, but had no obvious influence on libido. However, this was while on TRT and after adding gonadorelin to the protocol. The latter did correlate with improved libido. In theory, proper doing of kisspeptin would lead to endogenous GnRH production, obviating the need for gonadorelin while providing comparable results.

For those not on TRT, kisspeptin use is potentially interfering with endogenous production. I've seen a couple studies showing a boost in downstream hormones with short-term use. So far I have not come across research on long-term administration. The latter is uncharted territory.

 

[James3231]

Not on any TRY currently. Just had a sudden loss of sex drive and developed ED overnight. Having a massive strain on my mental health and relationship. So wanted a quickish fix

 

[Cataceous]

With the sudden onset you can hope the problems cease just as quickly. Unfortunately, libido and erectile function are complicated. Hormone testing is essential if the condition persists.

 

[James3231]

I think it’s all physcological which is even worse for me as it means there is no quick fix and it’s all in my head, so will take some time to fix

 

[Cataceous]

It sounds more physical to me, with the "massive strain" on your mental health creating a secondary psychological component. If you can diagnose and successfully treat the physical problem then everything improves. Get some tests to see if it's one of the more obvious culprits: low testosterone, low or high estradiol, high prolactin, low thyroid function.

 

[nodoctor]

Without seeming insensitive, isn’t it extremely obvious that improving the psychological and relationship components is the correct answer and not trying to fix this with medication?

Clenbuterol increases basal temperature but I still put on a jacket when cold. I know it is not that simple, but it certainly seems like solving the relationship stuff will bring you all sorts of other life benefits so I hope you can be successful with it!

For Cataceous, I was under the impression that KISSpeptide should behave like many other peptides where a short period to re-sensitize is a good precautionary measure but without much or any evidence that long-term peptide use has anywhere near the level of shut down that steroids and other hormones do. Naive on my part?

 

[Cataceous]

Without seeming insensitive, isn’t it extremely obvious that improving the psychological and relationship components is the correct answer and not trying to fix this with medication?
...

At least initially he didn't link it to mental/relationship issues. "... a sudden loss of sex drive and developed ED overnight." He needs to clarify why he now thinks it's psychological.

...
For Cataceous, I was under the impression that KISSpeptide should behave like many other peptides where a short period to re-sensitize is a good precautionary measure but without much or any evidence that long-term peptide use has anywhere near the level of shut down that steroids and other hormones do. Naive on my part?

Well, a constant infusion of peptide hormone GnRH, or even infrequent use of one of its long-acting analogs results in more effective shut down than with steroids, etc. The analogs are used for chemical castration, e.g. leuprorelin.

Less is known about kisspeptin. I think one experiment did not find suppression after continuous infusion over a day. I haven't come across any long-term experiments.

 

[BigTex]

Young J, George JT, Tello JA, Francou B, Bouligand J, Guiochon-Mantel A, Brailly-Tabard S, Anderson RA, Millar RP. Kisspeptin restores pulsatile LH secretion in patients with neurokinin B signaling deficiencies: physiological, pathophysiological and therapeutic implications. Neuroendocrinology. 2013;97:193–202.

According to Youg et al (2013) found that continuous kisspeptin infusion restored pulsatile LH secretion in humans with NKB or NK3R inactivating mutations causing infertility, providing strong evidence to suggest that NKB acts through kisspeptin to modulate downstream effects on GnRH secretion. So in the negative feedback loop NKB or NK3R modulates GnRH pulses.

Might be of some concern. I know a couple who use kisspeptin in conjunction with other fertility drugs to get pregnant and the wife had a miscarriage shortly after a heartbeat was determined. Park et al. [2012] suggested a link between kisspeptin and miscarriage.

Park DW, Lee SK, Hong SR, Han AR, Kwak-Kim J, Yang KM. Expression of Kisspeptin and its receptor GPR54 in the first trimester trophoblast of women with recurrent pregnancy loss. Am J Reprod Immunol. 2012;67:132–139.

George etal ( 2011) found that kisspeptin might act to reset the GnRH pulse generator. Furthermore, Young et al. (2013) observed that continuous kisspeptin infusion restored LH pulsatility in patients with de-activating mutations in the genes encoding NKB or its receptor.However if you have a normally functioning GnRH why use it?

George JT, Veldhuis JD, Roseweir AK, Newton CL, Faccenda E, Millar RP, Anderson RA. Kisspeptin-10 is a potent stimulator of LH and increases pulse frequency in men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2011;96:E1228–E1236.

Clarke, H., Dhillo, W. S., & Jayasena, C. N. (2015). Comprehensive Review on Kisspeptin and Its Role in Reproductive Disorders. Endocrinology and metabolism (Seoul, Korea), 30(2), 124–141. Comprehensive Review on Kisspeptin and Its Role in Reproductive Disorders

CONCLUSIONS
It is widely accepted that kisspeptin plays an integral role in the regulation of reproduction. We are now forming a more in-depth understanding of the diverse and complex interactions in kisspeptin signaling. It appears that kisspeptin also participates in the translation of signals of nutritional state and stress into reproductive capacity via GnRH signaling. Furthermore, it is becoming increasingly apparent that kisspeptin acts together with NKB and DYN in a complex manner to precisely regulate GnRH pulse generation in response to dynamic changes in steroid hormone concentrations. Kisspeptin may represent a novel target in the treatment of fertility disorders. Thus far, results from human studies have been promising. In particular, the observations that kisspeptin increases LH pulsatility in women with hypothalamic amenorrhoea [150], and that kisspeptin induces egg maturation in a dose-dependent manner in women undergoing IVF treatment [171] provide hope that kisspeptin may be successfully used to develop new or improve existing fertility treatments. Research is also focusing on the use of prolonged kisspeptin agonism to induce testosterone suppression in the treatment of prostate cancer, with promising results from phase 1 clinical trials [173]. Furthermore, with the ability to manipulate the endogenous kisspeptin signaling pathway in therapeutics, it may be possible to reduce side-effects associated with current gold-standard therapies.

Seems suggested dosing is 300mcg split three times a week. Most peptides usually do not have any saturating effects or desensitizing effects on receptor sites when used at 100mcg or 1mcg/kg. Long term effects, I can't really see this being used long term use as it seem to be used to give your own system a kick start.

But then the original question still remains "Has anyone experienced increase in sex drive using just this?"

Upon looking further I did find this interesting information.

No Long-Term Loss of LH or Testosterone Release in Studies of Men Using Kisspeptin-10.

"This study was designed to assess LH secretion and potential desensitization of kisspeptin-KISS1R with a continuous high-dose infusion of kisspeptin-10.”

“The kisspeptin receptor KISS1R is known to desensitize rapidly in vitro, raising the possibility of rapid hypothalamic desensitization. Although such desensitization is a parsimonious explanation for the decreased response observed here, desensitization has to be occurring rapidly after kisspeptin-10 administration before maximal stimulation of gonadotrophs is achieved. Because the fast half-life of LH in healthy men is 18 min, lower peak LH after the 3 μg/kg would suggest that the gonadotroph stimulation was submaximal.”

“Despite continually infusing kisspeptin-10 for 22.5 h, we found no such desensitization, and indeed LH secretion tended to increase progressively. This is possibly a function of the dose of kisspeptin used in our study being lower than that used in the primate studies. Tachyphylaxis of LH response has been seen during the twice-daily administration of kisspeptin-54 to women with hypothalamic amenorrhea, but this occurred over a much longer time period, i.e. 2 wk." (1)

1. George, J. T., et al. “Kisspeptin-10 Is a Potent Stimulator of LH and Increases Pulse Frequency in Men.” The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, vol. 96, no. 8, 1 Aug. 2011, pp. E1228–E1236, academic.oup.com/jcem/article/96/8/E1228/2833644, 10.1210/jc.2011-0089.

"Desensitization of gonadotropin responses to kisspeptin in the female rat: analyses of LH and FSH secretion at different developmental and metabolic states... Desensitization of LH induced testosterone release et al. can occur in women, however." (2)

2. Roa, J., et al. “Desensitization of Gonadotropin Responses to Kisspeptin in the Female Rat: Analyses of LH and FSH Secretion at Different Developmental and Metabolic States.” American Journal of Physiology-Endocrinology and Metabolism, vol. 294, no. 6, June 2008, pp. E1088–E1096, 10.1152/ajpendo.90240.2008.

“Kisspeptin resets the GnRH pulse generator in men, but does not appear to do so in women.” (3)

3. Chan, Yee-Ming. “Effects of Kisspeptin on Hormone Secretion in Humans.” Advances in Experimental Medicine and Biology, 2013, pp. 89–112, 10.1007/978-1-4614-6199-9_5.

 

[Cataceous]

...Long term effects, I can't really see this being used long term use as it seem to be used to give your own system a kick start.
...

Unless someone on TRT suspects that HPTA shutdown is reducing his levels and wants to add some back to ensure that kisspeptin's other possible functions aren't neglected.