Is there a hormonal explanation for extreme reaction to testosterone?

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CuirPork

New Member
I had relatively low testosterone when I started TRT at the minimum dosage every two weeks. Although I have been told that it is all in my head, I swear that I could taste it when the nurse did the first shot (and every shot I have ever done). I immediately get a tingling sensation up my back and often get goosebumps within 5 minutes of taking my shot. The nurse who gave me my first shot said she had seen one other guy with the same reaction but had no explanation.

I have even had my partner inject me with saline to see if it was purely psychological. I thought for sure that I was having this reaction mentally. But after doing the saline, I felt nothing. He picked a time to try it that I wasn't expecting--it was at least two months after I suggested we try it and I had long forgotten the discussion.

After a couple of years of 1 every other week, I started getting the lows around day 11. Pretty quickly they got bad enough that I couldn't function at all. I literally couldn't carry on a conversation without passing out on my feet until I did another shot. When I had my doctor check my testosterone during one of these foggy days, it came back at 25.

Is there something that can cause you to have exaggerated effects when taking exogenous testosterone? Is there some other hormone I should be evaluating that could explain the extreme lethargy and head fog when I don't take my dose on time. Occasionally, I will get busy and forget to do a dose, and sure as the day is long, I will get weak and sleepy and unable to get out of bed. Sometimes it takes me a day or two of staying in bed to remember that I forgot to take my shot. I do it and can immediately feel the fog start to clear. How is that possible?

If it's psychological, which I am totally okay with, why doesn't it happen when I do a saline shot unknowingly? It seems like the placebo effect should kick in and I should have the same reaction, but I clearly do not.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am having a thyroid panel done, but was hoping there were other considerations I should check.
 
Defy Medical TRT clinic doctor

Vince

Super Moderator
Sounds like your protocol is, one injection every 2 weeks? Ever thought about injecting twice a week?
 
M

MarkM

Guest
I had relatively low testosterone when I started TRT at the minimum dosage every two weeks.

How low was your testosterone when you started TRT? What is your dosage every two weeks? You said the "minimum dosage"? Depending on how minimal the dosage is and where you testosterone levels were pre-T therapy, it could be that your levels at testing, being 25, is realistic since you are testing at the bottom of a two week trough.

Injecting once every two weeks is a terrible protocol for the vast majority of people.
 

ivkonst2017

Active Member
I had relatively low testosterone when I started TRT at the minimum dosage every two weeks. Although I have been told that it is all in my head, I swear that I could taste it when the nurse did the first shot (and every shot I have ever done). I immediately get a tingling sensation up my back and often get goosebumps within 5 minutes of taking my shot. The nurse who gave me my first shot said she had seen one other guy with the same reaction but had no explanation.

I have even had my partner inject me with saline to see if it was purely psychological. I thought for sure that I was having this reaction mentally. But after doing the saline, I felt nothing. He picked a time to try it that I wasn't expecting--it was at least two months after I suggested we try it and I had long forgotten the discussion.

After a couple of years of 1 every other week, I started getting the lows around day 11. Pretty quickly they got bad enough that I couldn't function at all. I literally couldn't carry on a conversation without passing out on my feet until I did another shot. When I had my doctor check my testosterone during one of these foggy days, it came back at 25.

Is there something that can cause you to have exaggerated effects when taking exogenous testosterone? Is there some other hormone I should be evaluating that could explain the extreme lethargy and head fog when I don't take my dose on time. Occasionally, I will get busy and forget to do a dose, and sure as the day is long, I will get weak and sleepy and unable to get out of bed. Sometimes it takes me a day or two of staying in bed to remember that I forgot to take my shot. I do it and can immediately feel the fog start to clear. How is that possible?

If it's psychological, which I am totally okay with, why doesn't it happen when I do a saline shot unknowingly? It seems like the placebo effect should kick in and I should have the same reaction, but I clearly do not.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am having a thyroid panel done, but was hoping there were other considerations I should check.
Your protocol is ever 2 weeks, right?

If that is the case your protocol is terrible, your doctor is an amateur and is screwing you up. Testosterone should be dosed AT LEAST twice weekly, some folks can get away with once a week injections but not a good place to start. It is normal and EXPECTED to feel shitty when you are getting your testosterone every 2 weeks.

So just insist without giving your doctor the right to say NO to arrange it to be dosed twice a week or you find a new doctor. In fact if I were you I would sue that doctor, I researched it can be done for exactly this type of case with the right lawyer. I would do it for myself and also for all other future patients that this doctor would screw.
That incompetency crap needs to stop and some doctors would need to burn so the others learn their lesson. No mercy for such a malpractice and the doctor's ignorance is not an excuse, his actions have severe consequences and he is HARMING people.
 

Cataceous

Super Moderator
Your protocol is ever 2 weeks, right?

If that is the case your protocol is terrible, your doctor is an amateur and is screwing you up. Testosterone should be dosed AT LEAST twice weekly, some folks can get away with once a week injections but not a good place to start. It is normal and EXPECTED to feel shitty when you are getting your testosterone every 2 weeks.

So just insist without giving your doctor the right to say NO to arrange it to be dosed twice a week or you find a new doctor. In fact if I were you I would sue that doctor, I researched it can be done for exactly this type of case with the right lawyer. I would do it for myself and also for all other future patients that this doctor would screw.
That incompetency crap needs to stop and some doctors would need to burn so the others learn their lesson. No mercy for such a malpractice and the doctor's ignorance is not an excuse, his actions have severe consequences and he is HARMING people.
If he's having an injection every two week then yes, it's a dated and lousy protocol. However, encouraging legal action is irresponsible and a recipe for misery for everyone involved except the lawyers. You also don't have a chance in hell. The prescribing information for Depo-Testosterone, the granddaddy of all testosterone cypionate products, says unequivocally that the product "should be administered every two weeks." I think education is the better strategy: you present the doctor with as many studies as you can find that demonstrate that more frequent injections are safe and effective. If this doesn't work then you find a doctor who's more progressive.
 

ivkonst2017

Active Member
Wow, really? I'd say that is way overboard.
It may be is, but I have gotten emotional trigger for seeing the same stupidity all over again and again in all continets and all countries in the world.

And you would say the doctors are covered by the recommendations of the guidelines saying that it should be injected once every two weeks, but that is not exactly covering them totally. First this medication has pharmakokinetics and half life proven in many scientific studies. Second especially in the USA where every court caae can be a precedent unlike Europe a skilful lawyer can really twist the bad effect of the treatment that the patient eaperiences and I would say it would be totally justified.

Sorry, but when you practice treatments that can make people feel totally miserable and turn their lives into a living hell if done wrong you should bear the responsibility and consequences. I know stories of people who have lost their families due to that kind of crap.
 

ivkonst2017

Active Member
" I think education is the better strategy: you present the doctor with as many studies as you can find that demonstrate that more frequent injections are safe and effective. If this doesn't work then you find a doctor who's more progressive.
Of course trying to educate the doctor first is the better idea, but in my experience most are stubborn and would not change their views and methods because a patient taught them something especially the endocrinologists. Ive found doctors in other specialities like gastro being much more open minded, not sure why.
And ok then you move to another doctor and you solve your problem, but another guy goes to your previous doctor and now he has a big problem.
 

madman

Super Moderator
I had relatively low testosterone when I started TRT at the minimum dosage every two weeks. Although I have been told that it is all in my head, I swear that I could taste it when the nurse did the first shot (and every shot I have ever done). I immediately get a tingling sensation up my back and often get goosebumps within 5 minutes of taking my shot. The nurse who gave me my first shot said she had seen one other guy with the same reaction but had no explanation.

I have even had my partner inject me with saline to see if it was purely psychological. I thought for sure that I was having this reaction mentally. But after doing the saline, I felt nothing. He picked a time to try it that I wasn't expecting--it was at least two months after I suggested we try it and I had long forgotten the discussion.

After a couple of years of 1 every other week, I started getting the lows around day 11. Pretty quickly they got bad enough that I couldn't function at all. I literally couldn't carry on a conversation without passing out on my feet until I did another shot. When I had my doctor check my testosterone during one of these foggy days, it came back at 25.

Is there something that can cause you to have exaggerated effects when taking exogenous testosterone? Is there some other hormone I should be evaluating that could explain the extreme lethargy and head fog when I don't take my dose on time. Occasionally, I will get busy and forget to do a dose, and sure as the day is long, I will get weak and sleepy and unable to get out of bed. Sometimes it takes me a day or two of staying in bed to remember that I forgot to take my shot. I do it and can immediately feel the fog start to clear. How is that possible?

If it's psychological, which I am totally okay with, why doesn't it happen when I do a saline shot unknowingly? It seems like the placebo effect should kick in and I should have the same reaction, but I clearly do not.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am having a thyroid panel done, but was hoping there were other considerations I should check.

I had relatively low testosterone when I started TRT at the minimum dosage every two weeks.

After a couple of years of 1 every other week, I started getting the lows around day 11. Pretty quickly they got bad enough that I couldn't function at all. I literally couldn't carry on a conversation without passing out on my feet until I did another shot. When I had my doctor check my testosterone during one of these foggy days, it came back at 25.


Horrible protocol.....most definitely!

Depending on the dose used which you state was the minimum it would be a given that your T levels would be hypogonadal well before the 2-week mark.

S**t kicker here is why would you follow such let alone for 2 years?


Although I have been told that it is all in my head, I swear that I could taste it when the nurse did the first shot (and every shot I have ever done). I immediately get a tingling sensation up my back and often get goosebumps within 5 minutes of taking my shot. The nurse who gave me my first shot said she had seen one other guy with the same reaction but had no explanation.

Brocebo effect!

Highly doubtful you would feel any effect immediately post-injection.

There will be an initial burst release of T post-injection and levels will start rising within the first few hours.

Although T levels will spike up fairly quick peak will not be achieved until 8-12 hrs post-injection (esterified TC/TE).
 

madman

Super Moderator
His once every 2-week protocol is old news!

Member since late 2019.

Should be well versed on what an optimal protocol would be.





Hey all, I'm introducing myself as a new user to ExcelMale. I have been visiting this site for a long while, but only recently joined the forums to get some direct information if possible.

I started TRT about 3 years ago when my T levels were just at the recommended cutoff for non-HIV infected patients age 47. The results were nothing short of miraculous. Even my doctor was shocked and amazed by the difference in the quality of every aspect of my health and appearance.

About six months into therapy, I started having the ups and downs. They were really severe. I could go about 10 or 11 days feeling normal but then couldn't get out of bed for the last three days before my next shot. I tried changing my diet and my sleeping patterns and nothing seemed to help. Finally, I changed my dosage to once weekly and was able to avoid the exhaustion, but never got the benefit that I had grown accustomed to right after my injection.






I have been on TRT for 3-4 years now. My levels have consistently remained low except for the short period that I received treatment at Defy Medical. At that point, my Testosterone was extremely high. I recently was tested and I was at 126. I have been HIV positive since 1990 and have 20 years of methamphetamine addiction from 1990-2010. I started taking HIV meds 5 years ago and have remained undetectable since. I just turned 50 last week.





I see where you are coming from and thanks for your reply. It's important to note that I started at 100/2 weeks at the very beginning. Then I switched to 50/week and stayed there until I went to Defy. After Defy, I went back to 50/week until my prescription ran out and had to wait 2 weeks. So while it may seem inconsistent, it's just because I lumped the results over 4 years together.

My big question is how can a small dose of 100mg/dl cause my testosterone to go from 100 to 1500 in 3 days. Am I just super-sensitive to testosterone? Because when I am low, I almost can't function--like nearly wet the bed because I have so little energy I struggle to get up.
 

Cataceous

Super Moderator
...
And you would say the doctors are covered by the recommendations of the guidelines saying that it should be injected once every two weeks, but that is not exactly covering them totally. First this medication has pharmakokinetics and half life proven in many scientific studies. Second especially in the USA where every court caae can be a precedent unlike Europe a skilful lawyer can really twist the bad effect of the treatment that the patient eaperiences and I would say it would be totally justified.
...
These recommendations carry a lot of weight because they are based on the original clinical trials proving the medication to be safe and effective. They set the standard of care. If the doctor followed the standard of care then there's no case against him.

Establishing medical malpractice with medication errors, it is important first to establish the accepted standard of care, what a similar doctor would have done in the same situation. If the doctor in question did not provide all reasonable aspects of that standard of care, the case may be proven to be malpractice. Proving this requires the input of medical experts in one or more areas of medicine.[R]​

We certainly need a better standard of care in this instance, but it can't be derived from only anecdotes and theory.
 

CuirPork

New Member
Thanks for the help. I cannot believe that I have been on TRT for so long. It seems like a couple of years at the most. I had completely forgotten that I have had this same issue since day 1.

My latest blood tests show that I have low Iron, low Ferritin, low Vitamin D, low Caclum, and low Calcium Albumin adjusted and abnormal Hemoglobin in my Urine I also have low HDL, LDL, and general low cholesterol. These are all new symptoms that I am sure my "doctor" is going to try to blame on Testosterone.

The problem with getting your healthcare at a public clinic is that you repeatedly get assigned a new "doctor" which is just some ambitious kid with literally no idea what they are doing just trying to get through their residency with 1 year in infectious diseases for the merit badge or something. Thanks again for your time.
 

ivkonst2017

Active Member
My latest blood tests show that I have low Iron, low Ferritin, low Vitamin D, low Caclum, and low Calcium Albumin adjusted and abnormal Hemoglobin in my Urine I also have low HDL, LDL,
All of these except the vitamin d are connected to you being castrated most of the time by your "treatment". Except feeling awful you may start getting some really serious health issues with such a regimen.
 
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