Insomnia difficulty falling in sleep

[sammmy]

The funny thing about drug addicts is that they refuse to admit they are addicted, or they don’t know they’ve become addicted because they’ve taken the drug for so long they don’t know what normal is anymore. It’s even more sad that physicians provide a constant source of these drugs even though the fda introduced black box warnings about wd in 2020 (far too late imo).

The really funny thing is that drug addicts tend to see "drug addiction" in everybody else.

Alcohol is the mother Nature's benzo, but everybody says "drink responsibly" not "don't drink".

Apply the same principle to benzos, and you will never become part of the FDA black box warning. But of course that requires most of you to grow up and assume responsibility of your actions, not blame the drug or the doctor.

 

[bixt]

Apply the same principle to benzos

How?

 

[Beken]

I am using a CPAP.... as a result I get a nightly sleep report. I can tell you first hand... and there is plenty of data backing this up. Benzo's cause central apnea which creates the feel of sleep... but you're actually being sedated. It can be very dangerous especially for guys on TRT that are prone to sleep apnea. When I took Xanax to help me sleep... I would get these long block of central apnea... which means my brain forgot to tell my body to breath. It happened every single time I used Xanax. And it always happened about 2 hours after I ingested the Xanax.... right when the medication 'peaks'.

This also happened when I tried the sleeping pill Eszopiclone....

High doses of melatonin can do the same thing but to a lesser degree...

I stopped the use of all medications for sleep. I was using 1/4 of a .25gm Xanax every night and I became dependent. I had to taper off... luckily it was a incredibly low dose and I was able to do so over a few weeks. I had a bit of anxiety as a result.

I've been trying things like lemon balm tea, magnesium, GABA and tryptophan with limited results.

I'm talking with my new TRT doctor next month about trying Clomid or nasal gels instead.... My body does not like test cypionate. It feels invasive and 'dirty'.

 

[sammmy]

If your natural sleep process leads to sleep apnea, then any effective sleep medication will exacerbate it.

The correct prescription benzo for sleep is Temazepam, not Xanax, but I doubt it will not exacerbate apnea since even melatonin does it for you.

You could try a low dose Gabapentin but it will be the same thing - the more effective it is in inducing sleep, the more apnea you will have.

 

[Beken]

I'm diagnosed with obstructive sleep apnea. The drugs I mentioned cause central sleep apnea which is a different beast. Central apnea is a killer.

 

[sammmy]

For me, quetiapine (the antipsychotic prescribed for sleep) and even diphenhydramine (Benadryl, the over the counter antihistamine for sleep) cause dangerous breathing suppression even when I am awake.

I do just fine with Temazepam - it has a very slow onset of action, about 1.5 hours for me.

You can try Pycnogenol (French pine bark extract) - it decreases adrenaline and dopamine, which enhances sleep.

 

[sammmy]

This is a study for women but still shows Pycnogenol improving sleep:

Effect of low-dose French maritime pine bark extract on climacteric syndrome in 170 perimenopausal women: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial

Pycnogenol was found to be especially effective for improving vasomotor and insomnia/sleep problem symptoms, which were significantly better after 4 and 12 weeks than with placebo (p < 0.05).

 

[sammmy]

Another one to try for sleep apnea is NAC:

Anti-oxidant treatment in obstructive sleep apnoea syndrome

For me NAC or Pycnogenol are not strong enough to induce sleep but they do improve the deepness of sleep and satisfaction as add-ons to my usual sleep meds.

 

[Beken]

Testosterone cyionate has caused a lot of issues for me including super high blood pressure, high pulse, chest pain, anxiety and insomnia. I started at 168 TT and I am now at 262 TT on 35mg per week. I get too many side effects if I go up. I honestly feel really good except for my sleep issues. I guess I don't need a lot.... I don't know.

Over the pass few months I cut out all processed sugars, I got on a CPAP, I'm active now and I am in the process of getting off opioids after over 10 years due to back issues.

I have seen threads on Reddit where guys gain over 100 TT by getting on a CPAP. Opiates can suppress testosterone up to 90%. I have also seen guys have good results by changing diet and exercising. But we are all individuals.

At this point... I don't think I need super high testosterone to feel good... just a bump. So I am hoping to get off the test cypionate and use HCG or Clomid in the short term to see if my natural levels can get up to 250-300 TT with all of the life changes that I am making.

I see a lot of TRT guys... including myself... stack all of these drugs and supplements to try to 'optimize' or feel normal... as God intended.... but I don't think its worth it at this point in my life. Too many complications. I'm 44 and I still want a kid too.

I have an appointment on December 14th.

 

[sammmy]

Opioids and benzodiazepines should not be mixed - can lead to fatal respiratory depression. Maybe that is what you observed on your CPAP monitoring.

 

[Beken]

The combination of opioids and Benzo defiantly increase central sleep apnea.

If you just google 'Benzo central sleep apnea'... you will see the results. Bezo's and central sleep apnea is a real thing... Its a problem for anyone who has sleep apnea.

Tapering off the opioids could be the culprit in my insomnia too. Heck... the low carb diet I am on can be creating insomnia as well.

 

[bixt]

You guys are fighting a losing battle by using textbook answers as to which sleep aid is best.

After reading tons of threads on this topic across forums, it seems all available drugs are quite evenly spread out. All the different benzos, Z drugs, seroquel, antihistamines, trazadone, indica vape etc etc etc etc. Really, the distribution of posts is quite even across all of them.

Each user has found through trial and error what works, what doesnt, what leaves them groggy the next day etc.

Its always a different answer for a different user.

You can argue and argue and argue but the reality is there is no one sleep drug that works best for everyone.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

You guys are fighting a losing battle by using textbook answers as to which sleep aid is best.

After reading tons of threads on this topic across forums, it seems all available drugs are quite evenly spread out. All the different benzos, Z drugs, seroquel, antihistamines, trazadone, indica vape etc etc etc etc. Really, the distribution of posts is quite even across all of them.

Each user has found through trial and error what works, what doesnt, what leaves them groggy the next day etc.

Its always a different answer for a different user.

You can argue and argue and argue but the reality is there is no one sleep drug that works best for everyone.

My Belsomra story. When it came out several years ago, my psychiatrist prescribed it since sedating drugs hadn't been particularly effective. Belsomra inhibits orexin, which is involved in wakefulness. Took it for two days. It made me extremely irritable and angry; dysphoric mania.

 

[sammmy]

Actually the fight was over discrediting Temazepam as a sleep aid, by buch of people that never used it but abused other benzos while on god knows how many other psychotropic drugs, bought on internet or "off label".

The group of people that use benzos strictly for sleep has nothing to do with the group that use benzos for anxiety and often abuse them and get dependent of them. These keep bashing benzos because they are incapable of taking responsibility for their actions - it's way more convenient to blame the drug, not themselves. And because they can't grow up, we all must stay away from benzos? That stupidity is all over internet.

If anyone recognizes themselves below, benzos are not for you, but don't assume all people are like you:

Because benzodiazepines can be abused and lead to dependence, their use should be avoided in people in certain particularly high-risk groups. These groups include people with a history of alcohol or drug dependence, people significantly struggling with their mood or people with longstanding mental health difficulties. If temazepam must be prescribed to people in these groups, they should generally be monitored very closely for signs of misuse and development of dependence.

 

[bixt]

The group of people that use benzos strictly for sleep has nothing to do with the group that use benzos for anxiety and often abuse them and get dependent of them.

You have your story the wrong way around mate. It's the people using them for sleep who are abusing them, their intended use is actually for anxiety, hence the term "anti-psychotics".

But I will not judge. When everything else has failed, you need to do what you need to do.

The below post over at PM is really exceptional. In fact, the whole thread is full of experiences and anecdotes and is worth a read.

What's the best prescribed sleeping aid for bodybuilders from your experience?

Xanax 1mg nightly. Knocks me out within 30 minutes, and out SOLID for a minimum of 6hrs. I can EASILY sleep for 9-10hrs too without feeling any groggy type effects! Cage If you do decide to use benzos for sleep, I highly recommend it only be occasionally. The dependency with that benzo class...

www.professionalmuscle.com

 

[sammmy]

Actually you got it wrong. There is a type of insomnia that has nothing to do with anxiety or depression - it is due to pumped up brain chemistry (too high TRT dose for example) or organic brain damage from infection/disease. For these people, benzo type of drug is the best option and they don't abuse them.

You can't abuse a benzo prescribed for sleep because the number of doses is insufficient.

Now if one tries to "game the system", gets multiple prescriptions from different doctors, buys stuff from internet or the street, then one is a classical case of a drug addict and the problem is him/her, not the drug. Guess which type of users are bodybuilders in general?

 

[bixt]

You can't abuse a benzo prescribed for sleep because the number of doses is insufficient.

Now if one tries to "game the system"

Well then everyone is gaming the system I guess.

Give a man heroin once and he is hooked for life.

Give a man a benzo and....

 

[sammmy]

Here are Temazepam reviews for insomnia, not for anxiety or depression.

About 25% did not like it at all with the most common complain that it "didn't work" because they did not use the correct dose 30mg on a truly empty stomach and it takes 1.5 hours to activate.

The other complaint is the fear that they are "becoming dependent", because they won't be able to sleep without it. That is a pure internet nonsense prejudice because they couldn't sleep anyways before taking temazepam, so it is not a problem that was created by the drug.

 

[sammmy]

Well then everyone is gaming the system I guess.

Give a man heroin once and he is hooked for life.

Give a man a benzo and....

Give a drug addict a hand sanitizer and he will start snorting it. Is the problem the hand sanitizer or the one snorting it and should we proclaim all hand sanitizers "extremely addictive and dangerous".

Alcohol is technically a benzo drug. Everybody knows the dangers, yet nobody is screaming hysterically that we should ban it because the alcoholics can't keep their hands off it ... And then there are people that drink alcohol responsibly and will never become alcoholics.

 

[Hyrulewarrior1978]

Give a drug addict a hand sanitizer and he will start snorting it. Is the problem the hand sanitizer or the one snorting it and should we proclaim all hand sanitizers "extremely addictive and dangerous".

Alcohol is technically a benzo drug. Everybody knows the dangers, yet nobody is screaming hysterically that we should ban it because the alcoholics can't keep their hands off it ... And then there are people that drink alcohol responsibly and will never become alcoholics.

Wow you really are trying hard to deny your addiction problem aren’t you. Temazepam is a straight up benzo. It’s only meant to be used as needed, not every day. Hopefully you’re only using it twice a week max.