In the process of starting TRT. What should I start with?

[FightingFungus]

42 years old
Total T is 420
Free T is 9.7
SHGB is 48.9 on a 16-55 scale.

Should I start with HCG?
Should I pin 1 or 2 times a week.
How much of a dose should I take?
Should I take an AI?

I would like to make getting dialed in as simple as possible.



Nervous and excited about starting TRT.
Any Advice would be greatly appreciated

 

[Systemlord]

I would pin twice weekly and dial in before adding HCG to the mix, less moving parts to analyze. If you add the HCG later and things go south, then you know HCG isn't for you.

AI's are taken when you have exhausted all other avenues to lower estrogen, like decreasing your T dosage or injecting more frequently.

When you start TRT it will take 6 weeks for levels to become stable and progress is measured in months, not days or weeks.

50-60 mg twice weekly would be a good starting point.

 

[Airborne Warrior]

My numbers were similar to yours prior to starting TRT.

My protocol is 50mg test enanthate and 350IU HCG every 3.5D which works well for me, though obviously may not suit you. EOD may suit you with higher SHBG.

Better to start low and build up (if required) than start on a higher dosage.

You only really need HCG small dosage (500 to 1000IU weekly) if your balls shrink and you're not happy about it or larger doses if you want to try for kids further on down the line. I feel better on HCG than on test alone. Everyone's different though.

I'd try and stay away from an AI unless your estrogen is high and then would start on a very low dose to begin with.

May take time getting dialed in. Too many change their doses too frequently trying to get the magic numbers which won't happen unless you give it time for your system to adapt to the new changes (6 weeks or so).

Get bloods done 6 weeks or so after any protocol changes to see where you're at.

 

[FightingFungus]

Airborne warrior- What is your total test with this protocol? Have you noticed any muscularity changes with this protocol. I was told by people you need at least 150-200mg a week to notice a difference in the gym, any truth to this?

 

[Cips1975]

I’ve been on Dr prescribed TRT : Test Cyp (200 mg IM in glutes divided into 100 mg doses Mon and Thurs) , 500 Iu HcG Mon and Thur SubQ abdominal area by belly button and 0.5mg Arimidex day after each test shot plus Sundays for 11 months now. Before TRT my levels were 230. My last 3 bloods has me in the mid to high end of the reference range. Highest was 1100 and most recently 830. Feel good, all bloods are solid. Only side I am getting is a couple cystic acne bumps on my back each week. More of a nuisance but dealing with it. I am Def leaner at the same body weight 197 from a year ago so decent recomp. Dropped body fat and gained some muscle. Not much but enough to be noticeable. Also I eat clean mon-thurs and real shitty fri-sun mostly. I am very social and enjoy myself. TRT has Def helped to keep me from looking like a slob. Main thing I’ve noticed is recovery have been outstanding, I don’t get sore anymore hardly. That’s been my experience to date. Questions?

 

[Airborne Warrior]

Airborne warrior- What is your total test with this protocol? Have you noticed any muscularity changes with this protocol. I was told by people you need at least 150-200mg a week to notice a difference in the gym, any truth to this?

I'm at 27 nmol/l which is around 800 ng/dl which I'm happy with nowadays.

Whoever told you you require 150-200mg per week to notice a difference is talking shite. If your T levels are quite a bit higher on 100mg per week than they are in a natural state than you will put on more muscle. It's as simple as that really (as long as you're fueling and training with the right intensity alongside). I was a competitive bodybuilder back in the nineties and have been weight training around 25 years so it's not a case of beginners gains which I've wrongly attributed to the raised T levels.

 

[madman]

I'm at 27 nmol/l which is around 800 ng/dl which I'm happy with nowadays.

Whoever told you you require 150-200mg per week to notice a difference is talking shite. If your T levels are quite a bit higher on 100mg per week than they are in a natural state than you will put on more muscle. It's as simple as that really (as long as you're fueling and training with the right intensity alongside). I was a competitive bodybuilder back in the nineties and have been weight training around 25 years so it's not a case of beginners gains which I've wrongly attributed to the raised T levels.

This is key here.... to "notice a difference"

On trt as long as your TT/FT levels are in a healthy range and you are weight training/eating properly than it will definitely have a positive effect on body composition (increased muscle/loss of body fat) to a certain degree but do not expect significant gains muscle/strength as in order to truly see significant gains in muscle/strength one would need to use testosterone doses of 300-600 mg/week and even than gains would be much better closer to the higher doses 500-600 mg/week.

On average most on trt are using doses of 100-150 mg/week (sure some are using 200-250mg/week but it is not common).

For a good majority of men 100-150 mg/week would put their TT/FT levels in a healthy range (although some do need slightly higher doses).

As we know it comes down to the individual and their genetics/SHBG levels/sensitivity of the AR on how they respond to said TRT dose and what TT/FT level is achieved.

I can hit a TT of 1200 and just over double the top end of the range for FT injecting 150 mg/week (75 mg every 3.5 days) and my SHBG is smack dab in the middle of the reference range.....others may need more/less to achieve the same testosterone levels as we are all different.

If we compare natural endogenous testosterone levels to exogenous testosterone levels when on trt.....with natty T there is a natural 24hr circadian rhythm where T levels are highest (peak) in the early am and slowly decline in the late afternoon/evening (nadir)

As oppose to when using exogenous T and levels are constantly elevated 24/7 albeit there is still fluctuations/peak and valleys (which can be smoothed out by injecting more frequently using lower doses).

Key point is on trt ones testosterone levels are constantly elevated (as long as protocol is ideal as in ones T dose/injection frequency) which puts the body in an anabolic state 24/7 so as long as you are weightlifting and following a proper diet not only will adding muscle/increasing strength be easier but recovery from workouts will also be improved!

Also understand that significant gains in muscle will not be achievable using trt doses and if that were true than no one would use/abuse testosterone/AAS @ FightingFungus

 

[Vince]

I do believe starting a little too low is better than starting to high. I like using HCG along with my testosterone. I was primary before I started trt. HCG will affect you differently if your primary or secondary. My starting protocol was 70 mg of testosterone cypionate and 500 IU of HCG twice a week. I now inject 16 mg of testosterone cypionate daily and 500 IU of HCG twice a week.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

I actually started with 12.5 of clomid every other day when I first started TRT and that worked pretty well for a couple of years. I think I would have always wondered what would have happened if I hadn't done that and I also saw some improvements in the gym from just that small bump. I'm with Vince (and Dr Crisler) on the dose. For me I use around 80-90mg per week and I never really felt right when I go higher, so if I had started higher I wouldn't have known which way to adjust. Also i don't need an AI anymore. If you have access to test prop, I would start with that and inject every day. That way if you overshoot it is much easier to adjust down and IME it is much easier to get dialed in with the short esters and switch to a long ester later. I would not use a permanently higher dose for gym gains. There are better ways to accomplish that and too high of a TRT dose can cause a lot of problems.

 

[FightingFungus]

Guided by voices what is your total test with that dosage?

Thanks for the tips guys. I think I will start off with 100mg a week total split into 3.5 days. I would prefer not to take an AI or HCG. I will def not start off with AI and HCG and will adjust accordingly.

 

[Systemlord]

Guided by voices what is your total test with that dosage?

Thanks for the tips guys. I think I will start off with 100mg a week total split into 3.5 days. I would prefer not to take an AI or HCG. I will def not start off with AI and HCG and will adjust accordingly.

You can also always increase the injection frequency if estrogen becomes a problem on twice weekly injections before resorting to an AI, you have a lot of wiggle room to lower estrogen by dosing and changing the injection frequencies.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

That puts me in the 600-700 range. I seem to run a bit higher with test cyp and lower with an equivalent dose of test prop. I am someone who responds well to low doses of just about everything and more is often counterproductive for me.

 

[FightingFungus]

Thanks for the tips guys. My package for trt should be here on monday. I have a few more questions if someone can kindly answer.

I am nervous as hell about starting trt and have never pinned myself or used any steroids. A few questions I have is

What size needle should I use and were should I pin?

Is 50mg of testosterone equal to 1ml and 1cc?

Once again thanks to all the members here who have commented on this thread.

 

[Airborne Warrior]

1cc, 27 or 29 gauge, 1/2" insulin syringes are the most common.

Usually testosterone is 250mg per 1ml though not always. It will tell you the strength on the vial/ampule.

 

[Street]

Thanks for the tips guys. My package for trt should be here on monday. I have a few more questions if someone can kindly answer.

I am nervous as hell about starting trt and have never pinned myself or used any steroids. A few questions I have is

What size needle should I use and were should I pin?

Is 50mg of testosterone equal to 1ml and 1cc?

Once again thanks to all the members here who have commented on this thread.

I'm very similar to you - never injected anything before. My doc recommended drawing with 18 ga and injecting (SQ) with 1/2 inch 25 ga. That's what I've been doing for about 2-1/2 weeks and so far so good. Although I've read on this forum that a smaller needle is preferable for injecting, so that's what I will do when these needles run out.

1ml = 1cc. If your vial is 100mg/ml, and if you want to inject 50mg, then you would draw and inject 0.5 cc. If your vials are like mine (200mg/ml) then you would draw and inject .25 cc for a 50mg dose.

Keep reading the various threads on this forum. They contain a wealth of information for newbies like us. I've already learned things I would never have even thought to ask, such as the great tip on how to extract every last drop from your vials.

 

[madman]

I'm very similar to you - never injected anything before. My doc recommended drawing with 18 ga and injecting (SQ) with 1/2 inch 25 ga. That's what I've been doing for about 2-1/2 weeks and so far so good. Although I've read on this forum that a smaller needle is preferable for injecting, so that's what I will do when these needles run out.

1ml = 1cc. If your vial is 100mg/ml, and if you want to inject 50mg, then you would draw and inject 0.5 cc. If your vials are like mine (200mg/ml) then you would draw and inject .25 cc for a 50mg dose.

Keep reading the various threads on this forum. They contain a wealth of information for newbies like us. I've already learned things I would never have even thought to ask, such as the great tip on how to extract every last drop from your vials.

Seeing as you are already drawing with an 18 gauge and than swapping out for a 25 gauge you are already wasting some of the testosterone so it makes no sense for one to try and concern yourself with how to extract every last drop from your vials

If anything using a fixed insulin syringe (low dead space) would make more of a difference as not only are you drawing/injecting using the same needle (avoid the step of swapping needles to minimize oil loss) but you also minimizing oil loss due to the sole use of a low dead space syringe.

 

[Street]

Seeing as you are already drawing with an 18 gauge and than swapping out for a 25 gauge you are already wasting some of the testosterone so it makes no sense for one to try and concern yourself with how to extract every last drop from your vials

If anything using a fixed insulin syringe (low dead space) would make more of a difference as not only are you drawing/injecting using the same needle (avoid the step of swapping needles to minimize oil loss) but you also minimizing oil loss due to the sole use of a low dead space syringe.

If I pull in some air to get all the T in the syringe before swapping needles, I don't believe I'm wasting any T. Am I missing something?

 

[madman]

Thanks for the tips guys. My package for trt should be here on monday. I have a few more questions if someone can kindly answer.

I am nervous as hell about starting trt and have never pinned myself or used any steroids. A few questions I have is

What size needle should I use and were should I pin?

Is 50mg of testosterone equal to 1ml and 1cc?

Once again thanks to all the members here who have commented on this thread.

Insulin syringes (low dead space) 27-29 gauge 1 ml 1/2 inch are the most frequently used for trt.

Depending on your dose/injection frequency you could even use .5 ml insulin syringe which for some are easier to read/measure dose when injecting smaller volumes (daily/EOD).

Whether you choose to inject sub-q (subcutaneous) or i.m.(intramuscular) comes down to preference and what method is more comfortable as there are some who tend to have a bad reaction when injecting sub-q as they may develop a lump along with (pain/swelling/redness).

There should be absolutely no difference between the absorption/effectiveness of the testosterone between injecting sub-q or intramuscular.....mind you some (small percentage of men) feel that sub-q is not effective for them.

Most commonly used muscles to inject (sub-q or i.m.) would be shoulders, thighs, ventrogluteal and abdominal fat (strictly sub-q)

Testosterone cypionate or enanthate are the most commonly used esters for trt and both come in a strength of 100 mg/ml or 200 mg/ml (more commonly prescribed) as the higher strength requires less volume of oil to inject which is beneficial especially when injecting sub-q

Many are usually prescribed 200 mg/ml strength.....so .25 ml would = 50 mg (esterified testosterone)

 

[madman]

If I pull in some air to get all the T in the syringe before swapping needles, I don't believe I'm wasting any T. Am I missing something?

Comes down to low dead space as even once the plunger is depressed fully when injecting there is still some volume of oil retained in the needle tip.

Injecting using a fixed insulin syringe results in the least amount of oil retained in the needle tip due to low dead space design.

 

[madman]

Thanks for the tips guys. My package for trt should be here on monday. I have a few more questions if someone can kindly answer.

I am nervous as hell about starting trt and have never pinned myself or used any steroids. A few questions I have is

What size needle should I use and were should I pin?

Is 50mg of testosterone equal to 1ml and 1cc?

Once again thanks to all the members here who have commented on this thread.

I have used these 1 ml BD U-100 28 gauge 1/2 inch for most of my time on trt (2 years) and within the last few months switched to the .5 ml syringes as I find not only is drawing the testosterone slightly faster but the compact design is more comfortable in the hand when injecting.

I inject Delatestryl (enanthate) twice weekly (every 3.5 days) strictly sub-q into abdominal fat.....never had an issue!