I Haven’t Slept in 4 years. What to Do?

[wondering]

I've never tried hydrocortisone. Can you explain?

Thyroid is normal-to-optimal, did a full panel last year.

Pandemic ruined my exercise regimen, but I've been lifting for years. Definitely helps, but not a cure.

If your HPA is stressed it can result in less than optimal regulation of cortisol. Sometimes, this means spiking levels of norepinephrine to compensate. This can occur in the middle of the night. I often wake early and feel anxiety or ramped up. I take 10mg HC every morning. On weekends, this will calm me down enough that I zonk out for another hour or two. On weekdays, it can do the same if it this happens at say... 5am. If I get to the time to wake up, it still knocks back the anxiety.

The supplemental HC helps give your HPA support - it can result in helping it reset and after months you can wean back a bit and perhaps get off of it. I could not have survived without it.

That said, why your system is off is worth continuing to investigate - stress is #1, other hormonal or nutrition deficiencies also need to be solved. Sleep itself is a healer and lack of will never allow your system to balance. Chicken and egg thing going on there.

Define "optimal" thyroid labs. Do you have them?

 

[Reason]

Thank you for the detailed response, @wondering. I will look into HC.

I did a thyroid panel early 2020 and a few months ago, did a ton of research to read them and consulted with my Defy doctor. It's not an avenue I'm interested in pursuing anymore.

Interestingly, I have been able to sleep more than 5hrs for the past 3 days and haven't had nightmares waking up. This kind of streak is a first in months and feels magical. Only changes: upped my Pregnenolone dosage to 25mg (up from 10mg) and got a weighted blanket (Weighted Blanket Use: A Systematic Review - PubMed).

 

[wondering]

Thank you for the detailed response, @wondering. I will look into HC.

I did a thyroid panel early 2020 and a few months ago, did a ton of research to read them and consulted with my Defy doctor. It's not an avenue I'm interested in pursuing anymore.

Interestingly, I have been able to sleep more than 5hrs for the past 3 days and haven't had nightmares waking up. This kind of streak is a first in months and feels magical. Only changes: upped my Pregnenolone dosage to 25mg (up from 10mg) and got a weighted blanket (Weighted Blanket Use: A Systematic Review - PubMed).

Hey - what works, works. Cutting back/eliminaing alchohol, exercising, getting light first thing in the AM all helps too. Positive changes to health can snowball

 

[Vtail]

Thank you for the detailed response, @wondering. I will look into HC.

I did a thyroid panel early 2020 and a few months ago, did a ton of research to read them and consulted with my Defy doctor. It's not an avenue I'm interested in pursuing anymore.

Interestingly, I have been able to sleep more than 5hrs for the past 3 days and haven't had nightmares waking up. This kind of streak is a first in months and feels magical. Only changes: upped my Pregnenolone dosage to 25mg (up from 10mg) and got a weighted blanket (Weighted Blanket Use: A Systematic Review - PubMed).

I had never heard about a weighted blanket before. Based on your post I bought one. Last night was the first time using it. I can see it will take some getting used to. One of the worst night's sleep in a while for me, and that's saying something.

My primary problem is having to wake up to pee anywhere from 1 - 3 times per night no matter how early in the evening I start to restrict fluid intake, and as I get older it is very difficult to fall back to sleep. All is good with my prostate. I've had this issue my entire life. I'm 57 now. When I was younger I actually mentioned it to the doctor, who said I have "high functioning kidneys". These days if I want a good nights sleep I take a couple of Advil an hour before bedtime, which greatly slows urine production (at least it does for me). I would do that every night but I am concerned about causing stomach issues with long term use - and whatever else it may cause.

 

[Vince]

I've been reading about cancer doctors, prescribing 60 mg to 100 mg of melatonin, for their cancer patients. They take it throughout the day, I wonder how it affects their sleep? I started using, 25 mg of melatonin before bed and 25 mg upon waking. I'm also taking it throughout the day, I wonder what affects it will have on me?

Apparently it also helps your heart health.

 

[Vtail]

I've been reading about cancer doctors, prescribing 60 mg to 100 mg of melatonin, for their cancer patients. They take it throughout the day, I wonder how it affects their sleep? I started using, 25 mg of melatonin before bed and 25 mg upon waking. I'm also taking it throughout the day, I wonder what affects it will have on me?

Apparently it also helps your heart health.

Melatonin did nothing for my sleep. I tried as high as 40mg before bed. But like you I've also been reading about other health benefits it brings. I'm considering adding it to my list of daily supplements.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I've been reading about cancer doctors, prescribing 60 mg to 100 mg of melatonin, for their cancer patients. They take it throughout the day, I wonder how it affects their sleep? I started using, 25 mg of melatonin before bed and 25 mg upon waking. I'm also taking it throughout the day, I wonder what affects it will have on me?

Apparently it also helps your heart health.

Does it not make you exhausted?

 

[Vince]

Does it not make you exhausted?

No, I feel good. I did sleep good last night, I'll see how it goes.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

I recently noticed that I get better sleep if I use anastrozole. Although I am not 100% sure my improved sleep is from lowering estrogen. But I will keep experimenting with it. I’ve always avoided using AI in the past.



This week I have managed to get about 6.5 to 7.5 hours of good sleep per day using 22.5 mg Temazepam and a 1/4 pill of (AI two times per week).



I smoked pot for years and stopped cuz it started to make me paranoid. Did you smoke pot or did you use edibles? Is there a certain brand that works better for sleep? I think it is legal here in FL.



And thanks for the info. ​

Only medical mj is available in FL and it's apparently getting easier to get certified. I live in Cape Canaveral and a couple of dispensaries are encouraging people to meet with their staff doctors. I have untreatable bipolar and not sure if mj would create more problems than I already have.

 

[M.J]

I've been reading about cancer doctors, prescribing 60 mg to 100 mg of melatonin, for their cancer patients. They take it throughout the day, I wonder how it affects their sleep? I started using, 25 mg of melatonin before bed and 25 mg upon waking. I'm also taking it throughout the day, I wonder what affects it will have on me?

Apparently it also helps your heart health.

Vince any idea if it improves libido ?

 

[Cataceous]

I've been reading about cancer doctors, prescribing 60 mg to 100 mg of melatonin, for their cancer patients. They take it throughout the day, I wonder how it affects their sleep? I started using, 25 mg of melatonin before bed and 25 mg upon waking. I'm also taking it throughout the day, I wonder what affects it will have on me?
...

I think I'll stick to my 0.75 mg. The potential suppressive effect on the HPTA matters less to those on TRT, but taking high doses is an experiment with unknown consequences.

In describing his research on melatonin Bentley is quoted stating; “It is a powerful hormone and yet people don’t realize that it’s as powerful as any steroid. I’m sure that many people who take it wouldn’t take steroids glibly. It could have a multitude of effects on the underlying physiology of an organism but we know so little about how it interacts with other hormone systems”. Bentley and Tsutsui have presented their important research on GnIH at the prestigious National Academy of Sciences and have followed up with a number of studies and publications confirming these complex interactions and risks. Since the discovery of GnIH in 2000 of this “new hormone”, the reproduction puzzle has been brought one step closer to being solved. We now know that GnRH “switches on gonads” and GnIH “switches off gonads”. Melatonin increases the production of GnIH. In a recent study by the research team, birds given injected melatonin had triple the levels of GnIH in their body as a result. Genetic models involving melatonin’s effects confirms that melatonin increases the messenger RNA needed to produce GnIH. The studies in bird mammalian models confirmed that melatonin binds directly to neurons in the hypothalamus brain tissue which resulted in increased production of GnIH. The end effect was a decrease in size and function of the testes and ovaries.​

​

In a 2012 study by Tsutsui he wrote; “The discovery of GnIH has fundamentally changed our understanding of hypothalamic control of reproduction”. What is even more troublesome is the recognition that these receptors which are responsible for transporting peptides in the hypothalamus have fibers branching to multiple areas of the human brain. These areas are involved in basically every physiological and behavioral process imaginable. Thus melatonin will likely be found in the future to affect a multitude of physiological systems other than just reproduction via the GnIH mechanism, some positive and some negative.​

[R]

 

[Vince]

Vince any idea if it improves libido ?

I have no idea if it improves libido. I am taking 100 mg of melatonin daily. I plan to do it, at least until I have my next cholesterol panel. Wondering if it will, show any improvement.

 

[slicktop]

It's fascinating to see how differently we all react to different protocols, drugs, therapies, etc. There really is no "one size fits all" solution to anything health related!

Personally, I've always slept like a rock until being diagnosed with carpal tunnel and cubital tunnel syndrome in in both arms. My hands go completely numb at night unless I sleep with my arms bent less than 90 degrees at the elbow. So I had to "re-learn" how to sleep in different positions and it wasn't easy. What works for me is regular old benadryl (store brand, cheapest available), CBD (especially when accompanied by THC), and what works great but no one wants to do: exercise a LOT. Wear your ass OUT. Thirty minutes of hard cardio 5 days a week in the morning, followed by an hour of weight training in the afternoon.

 

[JimGainz]

Glad I saw this because I intermittently experience some sleep problems and I’ve just been going through a period recently.

One thing that has helped me diagnose the cause was that when I experience insomnia and anxiety I start writing down what I was taking or changes to my protocol as a reference.

years ago I went through a bad spell and it took a couple of months for me to realize it was the thyroid medication (t-3). After I increased my dose there was about a 2 to 3 months lag before I started getting anxiety / insomnia.

Going through the same thing now, I increased my T3 dose from 15 mcg to 20 mcg about two months ago, but also I am coming off a low-dose nandrolone cycle, and have also added in a few things to the protocol: COQ10/ Fishoil / Chromium / even Rogaine for hair growth. I also changed my testosterone dose to 50 mg E3D from 25 EOd. When I was up last night at 2:30 AM, wide awake, and had to get out of bed I started googling all of these compounds and of course all of them have been reported to cause some insomnia and/or anxiety so the only thing to do is to stop everything and cut back on T and thyroid to get things under control.

I am convinced it’s likely the cortisol spike from the MK677 as well as work stress and perhaps too much thyroid. Again from reading my log from 2018 seems to be a pattern here and when I cut back, and started taking DHEA at night as opposed to the daytime things helped. Will try that, But my recommendation is to keep a log

 

[lukas_az]

benzo's will send you to hell. sorry to spell the way it is. withdrawal can be a year long process which will make your initial problem a walk in the park. if you haven't taken them long enough + are lucky, you might still be able to get out (slowly). i have a history of benzos (free now) and insomnia. seroquel 25mg despite strong, is definitely a safer option, as it does not cause serious withdrawals. you can always try a mix of passion flower + lemon balm + valerian. somewhat less strong then seroquel 25mg, is hydroxizine. it works well in the range of 25-50mg. also easy to withdraw.

 

[wondering]

benzo's will send you to hell. sorry to spell the way it is. withdrawal can be a year long process which will make your initial problem a walk in the park. if you haven't taken them long enough + are lucky, you might still be able to get out (slowly). i have a history of benzos (free now) and insomnia. seroquel 25mg despite strong, is definitely a safer option, as it does not cause serious withdrawals. you can always try a mix of passion flower + lemon balm + valerian. somewhat less strong then seroquel 25mg, is hydroxizine. it works well in the range of 25-50mg. also easy to withdraw.

100%. Benzos sent me to a living hell. Unimaginable if you haven't been thru it.

 

[canmanagethis]

if you can obtain cannabis, especially an edible, it's a good thing to at least try. There's no addiction to it, you can dose from the lowest levels. The key is really finding which strain/brand works for you. Personally, I would suggest trying 5mg of an indica-based strain first. the next thing is to figure out the delivery mechanism that works for you. You can try a gummy, a chocolate, or something like a brownie/cookie. Each will deliver slightly differently. For example, I would normally suggest the cookie/brownie first as it's using cannabutter, which makes for a very slow and gently slide into sleep. If you don't like those, then the gummy or chocolate would be next. If you want a brand, I would try Love's Oven, as they are in Florida, they make brownies/cookies with cannabutter and are very good. For chocolate, I would try TruChocolate, the strawberry for just plain dark chocolate. Generally they take up to two hours to take affect, but most people feel them within an hour. I would suggest take it 30 min before bed so as you get settled it will hit, don't wait for it to hit and then go to bed, your insomnia might try to fight it. Also, depending on brands and your metabolism, they might last from 5-8 hours, so don't take super late at night. If you do this, go in the store and talk to the counter people, they have usually heard enough feedback and tried enough items to give you some good advice. In other states, brands like CODA, CheebaChew, Kiva are excellent brands. You might find cheaper brands, but often they use crappier stuff in their items, instead of natural items like sugar or fruit extract, they start using corn syrup and additives you don't want. It's been a gamechanger, but it took finding the right brands and strains that work. That's the hardest thing, because each strain can react so differently. In my case, pure sativa does nothing but give me headaches. Certain hybrids work extremely well, I've emailed and spoken with many manufacturers on their product and strains used. If you don't like taking any candy as part of the process, you can also look to see if there are indica pills, they simply look like aspirin. This is an interesting forum to hear what different people are using and what works.

 

[Vtail]

if you can obtain cannabis, especially an edible, it's a good thing to at least try. There's no addiction to it, you can dose from the lowest levels. The key is really finding which strain/brand works for you. Personally, I would suggest trying 5mg

What about tolerance issues? Do you find that you need to take more over time to achieve the same result?

 

[canmanagethis]

Good question. I found that generally there is a small tolerance that happens in the beginning. So, for example, when I started, I took 2.5 to 5mg, but after about a year it went to 8.5-10mg and and has then has stayed there for years. I can say that I've had a few bad nights over the years where 10mg wasn't strong enough due to extreme stress (like a death of a family member), so I upped to between 12.5-15mg for that night, and then went back down to 8-10mg after two days and stayed down again. Talking with various shop owners, some say they often see a very slow growth over the years, and people will get to higher amounts, getting to 20mg or a little more. But, now I'm talking 20 years of slow growth. However, I do know that you can also reset yourself by not taking it for a few months, and start over again (maybe not 2.5, but it depends on the person, 5-10mg is pretty normal for most people aiming to sleep). If you do this route, my suggestion is to also use a smart watch to track your sleep to help guide you on the right strains and timing, you can't always tell subjectively if what you took is the right amount, or needlessly extra. This helped me find which strain worked best. For example, there's a brand called TasteBudz, that for me, does work but I only get about 1 hour of deep sleep per night, and I can see I am restless for several hours. But I felt ok, so subjectively I might not find anything wrong with it. But then I tried a brand called Wana, specifically their blueberry Indica, and that gives me a solid 8 hours and 2 hours deep very consistently, no matter what I eat, and I wake up even more refreshed. I have an entire notebook full of which strains work, which sorta work, which don't, and both the objective scores such as sleep patterns, along with my subjective notes. I've even tried blending different things to see how they did, with so far mixed results, although cannabutter products like the cookies do seem to blend well with other things the most easily. But that's just me horsing around, I have my "go to" brands for sleep established, I just like to tinker. If you can, and this works, apply for a medical certificate so that you can get it even less expensively (often close to half the price). However, even if you can't get one, it's still a very inexpensive way to get some sleep. You spend about a dollar per 5mg, so 2 bucks a night is a great price to sleep.

 

[lukas_az]

here is my sleep mix which works wonders:
3g lemon balm extract powder (I use bulk supplements)
3g passion flower extract powder (B.S.)
3g valerian (Bulk S.)
3g glycine
if needed: 25mg hydroxizine
50mg pregnonolone
1mg melantonin sustain release

take the herbs 2h before intended sleep time