I feel best on a protocol that puts me above range... advice?

[Arcane]

So ive tried a few dosing protocols and have a journal where I log the side effects after 6-12 weeks.



20mg eod puts me at

Total Testosterone 830 ng/dl (250-1100)

Free Testosterone (151 pg/mL (35.0-155.0)

Sensitive Estradiol 27 pgmL (< or = 29)



I feel flat and low energy.. also irritable on this dose.. like a slightly better version of when I was hypogonadal pre testosterone, despite my bloodwork looking great . it sucks.



at 25mg eod My bloodwork is

Total Testosterone 907 ng/dl (250-1100)

Free Testosterone (167 pg/mL (35.0-155.0)

Sensitive Estradiol 44 pgmL (< or = 29)



Feel a little better but almost like Im teetering on the edge of feeling good some days and feeling bad other days.



at 30 mg eod my bloodwork is

Total Testosterone 1257 ng/dl (250-1100)

Free Testosterone (226 pg/mL (46-224)

Sensitive Estradiol 61 pgmL (< or = 29)



Here I feel amazing.. 0 anxiety, Perfect sleep, libido and erection quality, high energy, and I can actually wake up and get out of bed without feeling like Im wearing a weighted vest.



However my bloodwork is in supra physiological territory so this concerns me. I rn this dose for 8 months and got bloodwork. my hematocrit and hemoglobin were fine (45.6 HCT and 15.6 Hemoglobin). along with my other health markers. is it a bad idea to run my TRT this high?

 

[Vince]

So ive tried a few dosing protocols and have a journal where I log the side effects after 6-12 weeks.



20mg eod puts me at

Total Testosterone 830 ng/dl (250-1100)

Free Testosterone (151 pg/mL (35.0-155.0)

Sensitive Estradiol 27 pgmL (< or = 29)



I feel flat and low energy.. also irritable on this dose.. like a slightly better version of when I was hypogonadal pre testosterone, despite my bloodwork looking great . it sucks.



at 25mg eod My bloodwork is

Total Testosterone 907 ng/dl (250-1100)

Free Testosterone (167 pg/mL (35.0-155.0)

Sensitive Estradiol 44 pgmL (< or = 29)



Feel a little better but almost like Im teetering on the edge of feeling good some days and feeling bad other days.



at 30 mg eod my bloodwork is

Total Testosterone 1257 ng/dl (250-1100)

Free Testosterone (226 pg/mL (46-224)

Sensitive Estradiol 61 pgmL (< or = 29)



Here I feel amazing.. 0 anxiety, Perfect sleep, libido and erection quality, high energy, and I can actually wake up and get out of bed without feeling like Im wearing a weighted vest.



However my bloodwork is in supra physiological territory so this concerns me. I rn this dose for 8 months and got bloodwork. my hematocrit and hemoglobin were fine (45.6 HCT and 15.6 Hemoglobin). along with my other health markers. is it a bad idea to run my TRT this high?

If you feel good at these levels and you're not having any issues. I don't see a reason why you should change.

 

[Gman86]

There’s literally only one answer ur going to get, and it’s obv the right answer. There’s zero wrong with ur protocol or numbers. Ur numbers are not high at all, imo. I personally need my total T at least 1600, but closer to 1800 to feel best. All other health markers stay within range for me even with total T levels close to 2000. Blood pressure averages 110/60. My HCT usually hovers in the low 50’s, which is perfectly healthy and nothing to be concerned about. Ur numbers are perfect, imo. But what matters most is how u feel, and clearly u’ve found ur sweet spot. So just stay in ur current dose, don’t worry about ur numbers, they’re literally perfect, and just enjoy life. And ur E2 is perfectly fine btw. I personally would be slightly concerned if I saw my E2 over 100, even if I felt good. I would keep it there and not change my protocol at all to lower it, but I would probably try to get it down a little using natural ways. But an E2 of around 60 is nothing to be concerned about. That level comes with all the benefits of E2, without having to worry about any complications that VERY high E2 theoretically can do.

 

[madman]

So ive tried a few dosing protocols and have a journal where I log the side effects after 6-12 weeks.



20mg eod puts me at

Total Testosterone 830 ng/dl (250-1100)

Free Testosterone (151 pg/mL (35.0-155.0)

Sensitive Estradiol 27 pgmL (< or = 29)



I feel flat and low energy.. also irritable on this dose.. like a slightly better version of when I was hypogonadal pre testosterone, despite my bloodwork looking great . it sucks.



at 25mg eod My bloodwork is

Total Testosterone 907 ng/dl (250-1100)

Free Testosterone (167 pg/mL (35.0-155.0)

Sensitive Estradiol 44 pgmL (< or = 29)



Feel a little better but almost like Im teetering on the edge of feeling good some days and feeling bad other days.



at 30 mg eod my bloodwork is

Total Testosterone 1257 ng/dl (250-1100)

Free Testosterone (226 pg/mL (46-224)

Sensitive Estradiol 61 pgmL (< or = 29)



Here I feel amazing.. 0 anxiety, Perfect sleep, libido and erection quality, high energy, and I can actually wake up and get out of bed without feeling like Im wearing a weighted vest.



However my bloodwork is in supra physiological territory so this concerns me. I rn this dose for 8 months and got bloodwork. my hematocrit and hemoglobin were fine (45.6 HCT and 15.6 Hemoglobin). along with my other health markers. is it a bad idea to run my TRT this high?

Pointless to post FT level on the 3rd set of labs as it was not tested using an accurate assay!

Quest Diagnostics: Test Directory

testdirectory.questdiagnostics.com

As you should very well know to truly claim such one would need to have given each protocol 12-16 weeks which includes the first 4-6 weeks that it takes for blood levels to stabilize.

If you have done such for each new protocol (dose T/injection frequency) then if you truly feel best running absurdly high trough FT then leave it be.

*Again if you feel great overall, blood markers are healthy and you are not experiencing/battling any sides then I would not be concerned.

Although you are struggling with acne then it is something you will need to deal with from running very high trough TT 1200s with an SHBG of 30nmol/L which has your trough FT absurdly high.

Personally, I would rather have my TT/FT levels on the higher-end or slightly above and many may fair better running slightly higher levels but at the same time, there are many who will do much better running lower levels but it is highly doubtful anyone truly needs to be running those absurdly high TT/FT levels to experience the beneficial effects of having healthy testosterone.

Most that claim such have underlying issues with thyroid/adrenals or are trying to convince themselves that absurdly high T levels are better/needed.

Let's not even get into the numerous poor bastards that are started of on an insanely high dose of T from the get-go and have never had a chance to see how their bodies would react to lower levels.

Top it all of that many are clueless as to how exogenous T works and are switching their protocols (dose T/injection frequency) every 6 weeks in.

Every protocol needs to be given at least 12 weeks to gauge how one truly feels about said protocol.

Then the icing on the cake is many are using inaccurate assays when it comes to testing FT and has no f**king clue where levels truly sit.

That being said no one needs to be running trough TT 1500-2000 ng/dL to benefit from testosterone replacement therapy regardless of how great they may feel or if blood markers are supposedly healthy and if anything they most likely have dysfunctional
thyroid/adrenals.

Here is the S**T KICKER.

You have people on the forum going on and on about so-called optimal let alone everything being in balance yet these same individuals trying their damndest to micro-manage estradiol/DHT/prolactin/DHEA and the laundry list goes on yet when it comes to T are running levels well F**KING beyond what their body could ever produce endogenously let alone what level they were genetically at in their PRIME (late teens/the early 20s).

No male in his prime (late teens/the early 20s) was producing absurdly high peak or trough TT/FT levels let alone 24/7 (steady-state)!

Top it all of that your HPGA is shut down and most are not replacing physiological levels of T they are forcing levels upon THEMSELVES well f**king beyond what one could endogenously ever produce.

Complete S**T SHOW!

 

[madman]

There’s literally only one answer ur going to get, and it’s obv the right answer. There’s zero wrong with ur protocol or numbers. Ur numbers are not high at all, imo. I personally need my total T at least 1600, but closer to 1800 to feel best. All other health markers stay within range for me even with total T levels close to 2000. Blood pressure averages 110/60. My HCT usually hovers in the low 50’s, which is perfectly healthy and nothing to be concerned about. Ur numbers are perfect, imo. But what matters most is how u feel, and clearly u’ve found ur sweet spot. So just stay in ur current dose, don’t worry about ur numbers, they’re literally perfect, and just enjoy life. And ur E2 is perfectly fine btw. I personally would be slightly concerned if I saw my E2 over 100, even if I felt good. I would keep it there and not change my protocol at all to lower it, but I would probably try to get it down a little using natural ways. But an E2 of around 60 is nothing to be concerned about. That level comes with all the benefits of E2, without having to worry about any complications that VERY high E2 theoretically can do.

This is coming from a guy who claims to be joe healthy!

It's all about balance he says.....no it's all about optimal bruh.

Complete joke.

You were running a trough TT 1600-1800 ng/dL on EOD protocol on 180 mg T/week recently claiming your trough FT is in the 40s.....LMFAO.

Recently stated you are injecting 200 mg/week T let alone added nandrolone to boot.

It's all about balance though you preach!

Hate to burst your bubble again but with a trough TT, 1600-1800 ng/dL even with higher-end SHBG your trough FT level would be well beyond 40 ng/dL and more like 50-60 ng/dL.

You would have no clue though, right?

Why because you have never had it tested let alone posted the results using the most accurate assays such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best).

5 years in on here trying to convince yourself that your FT levels are not absurdly high.....I have high SHBG bruh!

Again to each his own and if you truly feel best running such absurdly high TT/FT levels, and blood markers are healthy let alone you are not dealing with any sides then as you and I would say do what is best for you.

*Just do not go on and on about maintaining balance which your protocol plays no part in.

If anything when talking about balance or somewhat trying to mimic when one was in their PRIME (late teens/the early 20s) you need to go back to the drawing board when it comes to testosterone.

In your PRIME your T levels were never close to near where they sit now let alone 24/7 steady-state!

 

[gerardo]

So ive tried a few dosing protocols and have a journal where I log the side effects after 6-12 weeks.



20mg eod puts me at

Total Testosterone 830 ng/dl (250-1100)

Free Testosterone (151 pg/mL (35.0-155.0)

Sensitive Estradiol 27 pgmL (< or = 29)



I feel flat and low energy.. also irritable on this dose.. like a slightly better version of when I was hypogonadal pre testosterone, despite my bloodwork looking great . it sucks.



at 25mg eod My bloodwork is

Total Testosterone 907 ng/dl (250-1100)

Free Testosterone (167 pg/mL (35.0-155.0)

Sensitive Estradiol 44 pgmL (< or = 29)



Feel a little better but almost like Im teetering on the edge of feeling good some days and feeling bad other days.



at 30 mg eod my bloodwork is

Total Testosterone 1257 ng/dl (250-1100)

Free Testosterone (226 pg/mL (46-224)

Sensitive Estradiol 61 pgmL (< or = 29)



Here I feel amazing.. 0 anxiety, Perfect sleep, libido and erection quality, high energy, and I can actually wake up and get out of bed without feeling like Im wearing a weighted vest.



However my bloodwork is in supra physiological territory so this concerns me. I rn this dose for 8 months and got bloodwork. my hematocrit and hemoglobin were fine (45.6 HCT and 15.6 Hemoglobin). along with my other health markers. is it a bad idea to run my TRT this high?

What's your shbg? If you already have 8 months with the same dose and your exams are fine and the most important thing is that you feel good then go ahead and then make adjustments if you need to.

 

[Arcane]

What's your shbg? If you already have 8 months with the same dose and your exams are fine and the most important thing is that you feel good then go ahead and then make adjustments if you need to.

30 n/mol

 

[madman]

There’s literally only one answer ur going to get, and it’s obv the right answer. There’s zero wrong with ur protocol or numbers. Ur numbers are not high at all, imo. I personally need my total T at least 1600, but closer to 1800 to feel best. All other health markers stay within range for me even with total T levels close to 2000. Blood pressure averages 110/60. My HCT usually hovers in the low 50’s, which is perfectly healthy and nothing to be concerned about. Ur numbers are perfect, imo. But what matters most is how u feel, and clearly u’ve found ur sweet spot. So just stay in ur current dose, don’t worry about ur numbers, they’re literally perfect, and just enjoy life. And ur E2 is perfectly fine btw. I personally would be slightly concerned if I saw my E2 over 100, even if I felt good. I would keep it there and not change my protocol at all to lower it, but I would probably try to get it down a little using natural ways. But an E2 of around 60 is nothing to be concerned about. That level comes with all the benefits of E2, without having to worry about any complications that VERY high E2 theoretically can do.

Might wanna go back into all your old threads and renege where you claim it is all about balance!

Again as I stated earlier when talking about balance or somewhat trying to mimic when one was in their PRIME (late teens/the early 20s) you need to go back to the drawing board when it comes to testosterone.

In your PRIME your T levels were never close to near where they sit now (1600-1800 ng/dl @ trough on EOD injections) let alone 24/7 steady-state!

Even in your prime when hormones were OPTIMAL your TT let alone FT levels would have never been anywhere close to outside, 3 SD.

Here you are joe balance running a trough TT 1600-1800 ng/dL with SHBG in the 40s and FT through the f**king roof.....go figure!

You would blend in much better preaching your bullshit on those bro forums.

 

[Zibernet]

This is coming from a guy who claims to be joe healthy!

It's all about balance he says.....no it's all about optimal bruh.

Complete joke.

You were running a trough TT 1600-1800 ng/dL on EOD protocol on 180 mg T/week recently claiming your trough FT is in the 40s.....LMFAO.

Recently stated you are injecting 200 mg/week T let alone added nandrolone to boot.

It's all about balance though you preach!

Hate to burst your bubble again but with a trough TT, 1600-1800 ng/dL even with higher-end SHBG your trough FT level would be well beyond 40 ng/dL and more like 50-60 ng/dL.

You would have no clue though, right?

Why because you have never had it tested let alone posted the results using the most accurate assays such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best).

5 years in on here trying to convince yourself that your FT levels are not absurdly high.....I have high SHBG bruh!

Again to each his own and if you truly feel best running such absurdly high TT/FT levels, and blood markers are healthy let alone you are not dealing with any sides then as you and I would say do what is best for you.

*Just do not go on and on about maintaining balance which your protocol plays no part in.

If anything when talking about balance or somewhat trying to mimic when one was in their PRIME (late teens/the early 20s) you need to go back to the drawing board when it comes to testosterone.

In your PRIME your T levels were never close to near where they sit now let alone 24/7 steady-state!

Soooo...he should just give up and accept feeling average instead of optimal ?
Or...you have other avenues for him to explore ?

 

[McBeavy]

OP, you're running a total of 105mg per week. Nothing crazy about that dose and if that's where you feel best at, that's really all that matters.

Sure labs are important with the data they provide. But TRT is about how you feel, how your pre-TRT symptoms are alleviated. That's what actually matters and if your protocol puts you into "above range" on a man made scale, so be it. Treat the man, not the numbers.

 

[madman]

Soooo...he should just give up and accept feeling average instead of optimal ?
Or...you have other avenues for him to explore ?

Unfortunately, he has never given most of his protocols a fighting chance.....put the time in!

Switching things up left and right.

Let alone ranting and raving after being on injections and switching over to scrotal application it was the next best thing only then to move onto a high-dosed nandrolone/low-t based protocol again claiming it was the next best thing.

Now back on the high-dosed T protocol and added in low dose ND to boot.

He was jacked up on T from the get-go running an absurdly high trough TT/FT level let alone was and has been using/relying upon inaccurate assays when testing FT trying to convince himself that his trough FT levels are not absurdly high.....claiming that he needs to run such high levels due to higher SHBG.....LMFAO!

He has never given a lower-dose T protocol a fighting chance.

Trust me when I tell you that one can easily achieve a high-end trough FT let alone in many cases an absurdly high trough FT hitting a TT 1000-1200 ng/dL and yes that is even with men with highish/high SHBG.

As I have stated numerous times on the forum that although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the unbound active fraction of testosterone responsible for the positive effects.

The only way to know where your FT level truly sits is to have it tested using the most accurate assays such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration.

A FT 5-10 ng/dL would be considered low.

FT 16-31 ng/dL is healthy.

Most men on trt will do well with FT 20-30 ng/dL.

Some may choose to run higher levels.

Comes down to the individual.

Most healthy young men in their PRIME (late-teens/the early 20s) would not even be hitting a FT 30 ng/dL and this is at peak.

Highly doubtful when on trt a trough FT 50-60+ ng/dL is needed to experience the beneficial effects of trt.

Many claiming to need such levels have underlying thyroid/adrenal issues let alone have never given a lower dosed protocol a fighting chance jacking up their T levels every 6 weeks if they do not feel great.

Unfortunately, too many are uninformed and lack the understanding of how the use of exogenous T works.

Too many get caught up in the more T is better mentality.

Could care less where someone chooses to run their levels with what they would consider being so-called optimal as long as they feel great overall and blood markers are healthy.

The sad fact of the matter is too many men are running trough FT levels well beyond what would be needed and in many cases end up struggling.

Sure some may do well but it is far and few!

Top it all off that not only have we shut down the HPG axis but many are running absurdly high TT/FT levels well beyond what the body could endogenously produce let alone in its prime (late teens/the early 20s) and this is steady f**king state!

This clown is going on about claiming everything is all about balance.....go figure!

 

[madman]

OP, you're running a total of 105mg per week. Nothing crazy about that dose and if that's where you feel best at, that's really all that matters.

Sure labs are important with the data they provide. But TRT is about how you feel, how your pre-TRT symptoms are alleviated. That's what actually matters and if your protocol puts you into "above range" on a man made scale, so be it. Treat the man, not the numbers.

*Again if you feel great overall, blood markers are healthy and you are not experiencing/battling any sides then I would not be concerned.

 

[Zibernet]

*Again if you feel great overall, blood markers are healthy and you are not experiencing/battling any sides then I would not be concerned.

Then the guy running high dose test is fine, according to this principle.

 

[Arcane]

Soooo...he should just give up and accept feeling average instead of optimal ?
Or...you have other avenues for him to explore ?

He posts this on every one of my threads. even the ones where I talk about things unrelated to my T levels. I have him on ignore at this point

 

[madman]

Then the guy running high dose test is fine, according to this principle.

Not too hard to figure out!

My reply to the OP (Arcane):

As you should very well know to truly claim such one would need to have given each protocol 12-14 weeks which includes the first 4-6 weeks that it takes for blood levels to stabilize.

If you have done such for each new protocol (dose T/injection frequency) then if you truly feel best running absurdly high trough FT then leave it be.

*Again if you feel great overall, blood markers are healthy and you are not experiencing/battling any sides then I would not be concerned.

 

[madman]

He posts this on every one of my threads. even the ones where I talk about things unrelated to my T levels. I have him on ignore at this point

You start threads with the same s**t over and over.

You have been given advice numerous times and yet you continue to play stupid.

Hurts when someone kicks some sense your way!

Upfront and str8 to the point.....no beating around the bush here.

If you are going to make claims about this that and the other be prepared to get aired out.

 

[xqfq]

Here's an older post on this topic -

What is the highest testosterone level for long term health ?

How can I know if a total testosterone of 1400 ng/dl is healthy for me?

www.excelmale.com

There are also risks with not feeling that good, not being as good at your job, not being as good of a partner or a parent as you could be. There are obviously trade offs. But most men go on TRT to feel better while watching their health.

My personal opinion is that your numbers at 30mg EOD are in line with what a ton of men on TRT maintain, especially when you consider most are tested at trough on an E7D protocol and you are on E2D. So if I had your numbers, I would consider myself to be taking on the same amount of risk as the average guy on TRT. Just my 2c.

 

[Anonymon]

Here's an older post on this topic -

What is the highest testosterone level for long term health ?

How can I know if a total testosterone of 1400 ng/dl is healthy for me?

www.excelmale.com

There are also risks with not feeling that good, not being as good at your job, not being as good of a partner or a parent as you could be. There are obviously trade offs. But most men go on TRT to feel better while watching their health.

My personal opinion is that your numbers at 30mg EOD are in line with what a ton of men on TRT maintain, especially when you consider most are tested at trough on an E7D protocol and you are on E2D. So if I had your numbers, I would consider myself to be taking on the same amount of risk as the average guy on TRT. Just my 2c.

I regularly have numbers similar to his, though it’s my peak and not my trough. Bloodwork’s always enviable otherwise. Talking to other guys, many of them actually feel best on TRT when their free T is outside the normal range, in the 250-300 range if you’re going to use that scale, with wherever their TT has to fall to get there.

I do think in cases like this that testosterone is being used to mask or compensate for other issues going on, which is probably the case for me. It may also be that exogenous testosterone just isn’t functioning the same as endogenous. In my case, I had a bad reaction to straight slow release T3, for example. Felt like shit after a while and like my TRT had been unplugged, and my free T and E2 both nearly doubled despite the dose of test being the same. After feeling like I depleted something in myself, the testosterone just wasn’t getting into the cells anymore, which went away after stopping it.

Similar things might be going on with some guys when it comes to this stuff, in that their own ability to utilize the test differs from others, and they need more to help deal with that. We probably can’t make straight comparisons to guys with endogenously produced testosterone when it comes to bloodwork on it because it being exogenous means it’s not going to work the same in the body or bring with it all the same processes at the same rates. For some guys a little might go a long way, for others it won’t. HCG makes me feel better, HCG makes some guys feel worse. Everybody’s different. I even had mine raise when I blew through my ability to utilize it, putting me in a state of having higher values on my blood work and lower absorption into my cells where it counted.