How to tell if E2 is getting high without access to sensitive test?

[Tom82]

Hi Guys,

I started TRT about three weeks ago. I'm based in the UK so don't have access to the Sensitive E2 test. In the first week I noticed the "brain fog" lifted somewhat and I felt far more alert and able to focus better that before I started. I have noticed in the last week or so that brain fog feeling has returned. My body fat is quite high, at least 25%. I know three weeks in is still early but would it be possible for my E2 levels to have crept up in that time and be the cause of the brain fog returning?

Other symptoms I'm noticing are very slight sensitivity in one of my nipples. Erections went from poor before I started to awesome in the first two weeks and are now average. I've also noticed penis sensitivity is down to the same as I experienced pre TRT.

I have anastrozole but haven't used it since I tried HCG mono (which had no effect no me) before going onto TRT. I'm wondering if it would be worth taking 0.25mg EOD for a week to see if it helps?

It's really frustrating not to have access to the right test. What do you guys think?

More detail on my current protocol here here: Started TRT today - Protocol and Dose. Updated with Labs 20/09/18

 

[Vince Carter]

erection quality, sensitivity, lack of desire for sex, can be high symptoms, as can water retention and/or night sweats and being hot in bed at night. It wouldn't hurt if you tried some micro doses of Anastrozole presuming that's what you have access to....0125mg once or twice per week to see what happens. Though you're rather new to this I think and it does take much more time to get a balance and so forth

 

[Jiu Jitsu Dude]

For me it's being very emotional, sensitive nipples, bloating, loss of libido (less libido). But I'm new to this too. 8 weeks. SO don't put too much trust in my experience yet LOL. Taking DIM and Calcium D-Glucarate and it's helping.

 

[DragonBits]

I would just use the non-Sensitive E2 test as a guide if you don't have access to the Sensitive one.

Most people have reported the non-sensitive test tended to give higher results, though if you are very low I don't think that applies.

You can still use the non-sensitive test as a relative guide by comparing it o the last E2 test.

Your thyroid could be causing some symptoms and you only assume it's E2.

 

[Tom82]

Thanks for the response guys.

@DragonBits I was put on Armour Thyroid (75mg ED) when I first started the HCG Mono and have been on it since. That’s why I figured it isn’t Thyroid.

 

[DragonBits]

Thanks for the response guys.

@DragonBits I was put on Armour Thyroid (75mg ED) when I first started the HCG Mono and have been on it since. That’s why I figured it isn’t Thyroid.

Many people report having difficulty adjusting their thyroid meds, I would check both E2 and Free T3.

 

[madman]

Hi Guys,

I started TRT about three weeks ago. I'm based in the UK so don't have access to the Sensitive E2 test. In the first week I noticed the "brain fog" lifted somewhat and I felt far more alert and able to focus better that before I started. I have noticed in the last week or so that brain fog feeling has returned. My body fat is quite high, at least 25%. I know three weeks in is still early but would it be possible for my E2 levels to have crept up in that time and be the cause of the brain fog returning?

Other symptoms I'm noticing are very slight sensitivity in one of my nipples. Erections went from poor before I started to awesome in the first two weeks and are now average. I've also noticed penis sensitivity is down to the same as I experienced pre TRT.

I have anastrozole but haven't used it since I tried HCG mono (which had no effect no me) before going onto TRT. I'm wondering if it would be worth taking 0.25mg EOD for a week to see if it helps?

It's really frustrating not to have access to the right test. What do you guys think?

More detail on my current protocol here here: Started TRT today - Protocol and Dose. Updated with Labs 20/09/18

VC gives sound advice!

Mind you it would be better not to have to use an aromatase inhibitor when starting trt to see how the body responds to testosterone and to truly see how said dose of testosterone effects ones TT. FT and e2 (labs at 6 weeks).....but again some men are started on too high dose of testosterone and it is almost a given that they will have elevated e2 issues.

Looking over your first set of labs pre-trt before you started hcg solo your SHBG was 33 nmol/L and increased to 41 nmol/L on hcg therapy (range 16-55) so the mean (mid range) range would be 35.5 nmol/L.

The starting trt dose you were put on is rather high at 200 mg/week (100 mg every 3.5 days) and seeing as your SHBG is basically mid range at 33 nmol/L as long as it has dropped back down after stopping the hcg.....as you may know when one increases T, increased e2 will follow.

Having a mid-range SHBG.....200 mg/week testosterone will more than likely have your T levels very high and I would say your e2 is also high.

Having 25% bf will also increase the chances of aromatizing more of the T--->e2.

 

[Tom82]

Thanks for the response guys.

@Vince Carter I have 1mg anastrozole tabs so realistically the smallest I can cut them down to is approx 0.25mg. I'm thinking to take that twice a week for the next couple of weeks and see if it helps. But now I'm thinking rather that once a week to start with?

@madman I'm only taking 100mg (50mg E3.5D) of T per week at the moment. I figured from the reading I did on here it would be more beneficial to build the dose up as opposed to starting too high and then reduce. I am also still taking HCG. I'm not sure I understand the correlation between HCG and SHBG? I'm also thinking that once the bf% comes down then perhaps there will be less need for an AI?

 

[Vince Carter]

YOu can make a liquid using 1mL of Vodka and one (1) tablet of Anastrozole and dose it very small that way. Crush up the tablet and add the liquid to dissolve then you can dose it smaller than .25mg if you need to. If not just try .25mg/ 1/4 tablet once per week and see how you do.

 

[Leesto]

Thing is, most of the symptoms associated with high E2 in men are also listed as symptoms of low E2. It just depends on which list you look at. I have not seen a definitive study or a peer-reviewed paper which clearly and accurately identifies low E2 and high E2 symptoms in men. As a result, you can chase E2 in circles and make huge protocol mistakes by chasing the symptoms without proper labs.

I hope you are somehow able to gain access to the right test.

 

[Vince Carter]

The only real definitive low E symptom is sore/clicky joints

 

[madman]

Thanks for the response guys.

@Vince Carter I have 1mg anastrozole tabs so realistically the smallest I can cut them down to is approx 0.25mg. I'm thinking to take that twice a week for the next couple of weeks and see if it helps. But now I'm thinking rather that once a week to start with?

@madman I'm only taking 100mg (50mg E3.5D) of T per week at the moment. I figured from the reading I did on here it would be more beneficial to build the dose up as opposed to starting too high and then reduce. I am also still taking HCG. I'm not sure I understand the correlation between HCG and SHBG? I'm also thinking that once the bf% comes down then perhaps there will be less need for an AI?

Started TRT today - Protocol and Dose. Updated with Labs 20/09/18


My Dr has prescribed the following protocol:

Testosteron Cyp 200mg/1ml - 200mg/wk (100mg dose every 3.5 days)
HCG 5,000iu/1ml - 3,000iu/wk (1,000iu dose 3 times/wk)
Armour Thyroid - 75mg Daily (i built up to this dose over a period of 4wk while on the HCG)
Tadalafil 5mg Daily (for blood pressure)
Metformin 750mg 2x/day (Also built up to this dose over 4wk while on HCG)
Anastrozole 1mg tabs - 0.25mg EOD if needed only.


I have a follow up blood test schedule with my Dr in 12 weeks.

Based on what I've read on here the Testosterone and HCG doses seem high to start with. So I'm thinking I should rather start the T on 100mg/wk broken down into two 50mg shots and then HCG on 1,500iu/wk broken down into two 750iu shots per week. I'm then planning on having my own blood tests done after 6 weeks and adjust accordingly. What do you guys think?



Thanks for pointing that out as I did not know you decided on starting the T cyp at 100 mg/week (50 mg every 3.5 days)!

 

[Pongo]

Take a non sensitive test & see where your at. Before I found the sensitive test I crashed my E2 at 34. A good rule of thumb is not to go much under 50. I personal felt my best between 50 & 80. The comparisons i got to experience were the non sensitive test is almost double the sensitive test. Don't mess with anastrozole, crashed E2 is horrible painful experience & takes months to go away.
0.25 a week is the max to start with after a TEST.

 

[lowe2sucks]

never heard of anybody getting positive effects of health from taking AI.. if you are not taking very high doses of testosterone you shouldn't be concerned e2 is actually beneficial for men and it's much better to have high e2 than low e2

 

[Weasel]

Take a non sensitive test & see where your at. Before I found the sensitive test I crashed my E2 at 34. A good rule of thumb is not to go much under 50. I personal felt my best between 50 & 80. The comparisons i got to experience were the non sensitive test is almost double the sensitive test. Don't mess with anastrozole, crashed E2 is horrible painful experience & takes months to go away.
0.25 a week is the max to start with after a TEST.

Ill agree with this. if you crash your e2 and keep it low for to long, you can have bone loss. It can also take many months to recover symptom wise even after labs show your levels recovered.

I also agree .25 a week is more than sufficient for most guys. make sure that's in at least 2 doses per week though or its gunna be a wild roller coaster for you.

 

[Systemlord]

Here my method for dosing anastrozole. I have since started using a 5ml graduated dropper pipettes to dissolve the anastrozole and dose .2ml using the 1ml graduated dropper pipette.

 

[DragonBits]

Here my method for dosing anastrozole. I have since started using a 5ml graduated dropper pipettes to dissolve the anastrozole and dose .2ml using the 1ml graduated dropper pipette.

Congrats, it's a clever method of getting a very small dose.

 

[Jiu Jitsu Dude]

Here my method for dosing anastrozole. I have since started using a 5ml graduated dropper pipettes to dissolve the anastrozole and dose .2ml using the 1ml graduated dropper pipette.

With the size of that Vodka bottle you may have more than an E2 issue

 

[Systemlord]

With the size of that Vodka bottle you may have more than an E2 issue

I'm consuming. 2mls, a ridiculously small amount. Mear drops.

 

[Jiu Jitsu Dude]

I'm consuming. 2mls, a ridiculously small amount. Mear drops.

Totally joking with you Systemlord. I was insinuating your a massive alcoholic. Hopefully not or I just put more egg on my face. I thought I'd get a reaction. Anyways I hope you get/got your micro dosing figured out for E2 control. I read your posts to others and you are very insightful.