How to raise estridol when HCG won't do it.

[nippy]

Hi. I have been on testosterone therapy since September 2019.during this time I have gone from injections to cream back to injections as nothing seems to get my estridol up... constantly fatigued suffering brain fog no libido and very dry skin. I current protocol is testosterone E at 200mg a week. Split Mon. We'd. Frid..... I've tried HCG for but no results. Have recently tried pregnenolone but it seems I can't aromatize enough estridol to help the libido and other symptoms... Any ideas ???

 

[JA Battle]

You could consider Injecting estradiol but before we can calculate a good starting dose, we need your current testosterone protocol including dosage& injection schedule.

the average healthy man makes around 18-25 mcg (micrograms) daily so it is a very small dose if you want to supplement what you are already making naturally. It requires very specific dilution of a more concentrated estradiol valerate, benzoate, or cypionate medication you may find.

Also need bloodwork concerning total testosterone, shbg, albumin, dht, e2 sensitive.

Likely more bloodwork as well such as a complete thyroid panel preferably with free and total t3 and t4and reverse t3.

I also have to advise you, there are maybe a handful of non transsexual men in the world doing this. It is not currently an accepted part of hrt.

 

[nippy]

Thanks for reply

I take test E 200mg a week. Injected Mon we'd and Friday
Last E2 was 18.4 pmol
Progesterone 0.15
Test 17.1
Shbg 54.5
T4 16 .8
T3 14.7
Free test 0.23

new blood results this Wednesday these results were taking 5 weeks ago when I was taking testosterone p at 175 mg a week . ED injection.

 

[madman]

Thanks for reply

I take test E 200mg a week. Injected Mon we'd and Friday
Last E2 was 18.4 pmol
Progesterone 0.15
Test 17.1
Shbg 54.5
T4 16 .8
T3 14.7
Free test 0.23

new blood results this Wednesday these results were taking 5 weeks ago when I was taking testosterone p at 175 mg a week . ED injection.

Your first post:

Hi. I have been on testosterone therapy since September 2019.during this time I have gone from injections to cream back to injections as nothing seems to get my estridol up... constantly fatigued suffering brain fog no libido and very dry skin. I current protocol is testosterone E at 200mg a week. Split Mon. We'd. Frid..... I've tried HCG for but no results. Have recently tried pregnenolone but it seems I can't aromatize enough estridol to help the libido and other symptoms... Any ideas ???




Labs above are from 5 weeks ago when you were on 175 mg/week split ED injections.

As you can clearly see your TT 17.1 nmol/L (493 ng/dL) is far from being high let alone with your high SHBG 54.5 nmol/L than your FT level would be far from optimal.

Although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of testosterone responsible for the positive effects.

The only way to know where your FT truly sits on such protocol is to have it tested using the most accurate assays such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration.

Not sure what method was used for FT.....you need to post labs with reference ranges.

Either way, you can be rest assured that with a TT 493 ng/dL and high SHBG 54.5 nmol/L that your FT will be sub-par.

Not sure why you were put on daily injections when your SHBG is high and you would most likely fair better injecting larger doses less frequently as in twice weekly as it may help in driving down your SHBG.

Looking over these labs I would say that it is clear as day that you need to increase your FT levels which will drive up your e2.

Unfortunately, these labs are from 5 weeks ago as you switched your protocol to 200 mg/week split M/W/F recently.

How long have you been on the new protocol?

We have no idea where your TT/FT/e2 let alone SHBG will sit on your new protocol as you stated that new labs are due this Wednesday.

To truly know where everything sits you would need to have tested TT/e2 (LC-MS/MS) let alone FT (Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration).

I would not make a move until the new labs are done then you can see where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has your TT/FT/e2/SHBG level.

When having blood work done whether starting a trt protocol or tweaking a protocol (dose T/injection frequency) you need to wait 4-6 weeks(TE/TC) for blood levels to stabilize before getting labs done.

Testing is done at the trough (lowest point) as we want to make sure your levels are not too low which would result in a lack of improvement of low T symptoms and levels are not too high which can cause side-effects to let alone one to struggle with numerous issues on a protocol.

Seeing as you are injecting M/W/F then your labs should be done Monday morning (true trough) just before your next injection.

Have no idea what dose of hCG you were one let alone the protocol!

 

[nippy]

Your first post:

Hi. I have been on testosterone therapy since September 2019.during this time I have gone from injections to cream back to injections as nothing seems to get my estridol up... constantly fatigued suffering brain fog no libido and very dry skin. I current protocol is testosterone E at 200mg a week. Split Mon. We'd. Frid..... I've tried HCG for but no results. Have recently tried pregnenolone but it seems I can't aromatize enough estridol to help the libido and other symptoms... Any ideas ???




Labs above are from 5 weeks ago when you were on 175 mg/week split ED injections.

As you can clearly see your TT 17.1 nmol/L (493 ng/dL) is far from being high let alone with your high SHBG 54.5 nmol/L than your FT level would be far from optimal.

Although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of testosterone responsible for the positive effects.

The only way to know where your FT truly sits on such protocol is to have it tested using the most accurate assays such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration.

Not sure what method was used for FT.....you need to post labs with reference ranges.

Either way, you can be rest assured that with a TT 493 ng/dL and high SHBG 54.5 nmol/L that your FT will be sub-par.

Not sure why you were put on daily injections when your SHBG is high and you would most likely fair better injecting larger doses less frequently as in twice weekly as it may help in driving down your SHBG.

Looking over these labs I would say that it is clear as day that you need to increase your FT levels which will drive up your e2.

Unfortunately, these labs are from 5 weeks ago as you switched your protocol to 200 mg/week split M/W/F recently.

How long have you been on the new protocol?

We have no idea where your TT/FT/e2 let alone SHBG will sit on your new protocol as you stated that new labs are due this Wednesday.

To truly know where everything sits you would need to have tested TT/e2 (LC-MS/MS) let alone FT (Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration).

I would not make a move until the new labs are done then you can see where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has your TT/FT/e2/SHBG level.

When having blood work done whether starting a trt protocol or tweaking a protocol (dose T/injection frequency) you need to wait 4-6 weeks(TE/TC) for blood levels to stabilize before getting labs done.

Testing is done at the trough (lowest point) as we want to make sure your levels are not too low which would result in a lack of improvement of low T symptoms and levels are not too high which can cause side-effects to let alone one to struggle with numerous issues on a protocol.

Seeing as you are injecting M/W/F then your labs should be done Monday morning (true trough) just before your next injection.

Have no idea what dose of hCG you were one let alone the protocol!

Thanks for the reply. HCG was 0.10 ml a day for six weeks. No benefits from it in libido or any relief from the symptoms of low E2 . The new labs on wed will show what the last five weeks on the new protocol have done ... . I don't just want to increase the amount of test in taking .. I do not understand why my body isn't aromatizing. This is the key to libido

 

[JA Battle]

Thanks for the reply. HCG was 0.10 ml a day for six weeks. No benefits from it in libido or any relief from the symptoms of low E2 . The new labs on wed will show what the last five weeks on the new protocol have done ... . I don't just want to increase the amount of test in taking .. I do not understand why my body isn't aromatizing. This is the key to libido

this does not tell us much as far as hcg consumption. We need to know how many ius you were taking not the volume.

estradiol is very important for libido. It’s probably the most powerful component of libido. But it is a steep u shaped curve. Too little or too much in relation to your androgen load can tank the libido. But dht, thyroid, and adrenals have a component.

All hormones being adequate is necessary for good consistent libido. Any one missing link could diminish libido

 

[nippy]

this does not tell us much as far as hcg consumption. We need to know how many ius you were taking not the volume.

estradiol is very important for libido. It’s probably the most powerful component of libido. But it is a steep u shaped curve. Too little or too much in relation to your androgen load can tank the libido. But dht, thyroid, and adrenals have a component.

All hormones being adequate is necessary for good consistent libido. Any one missing link could diminish libido

Hi thanks again. I was on 100 iu a day increased to 150 after two weeks.. . No change to symptoms. Did it for 8 weeks now that I recall. Bought two bottles . Kept them in the fridge and out if light.

 

[Vince]

Hi thanks again. I was on 100 iu a day increased to 150 after two weeks.. . No change to symptoms. Did it for 8 weeks now that I recall. Bought two bottles . Kept them in the fridge and out if light.

I would inject 500 IU of HCG twice a week or even three times a week. Don't inject HCG daily, if you want to increase your estradiol levels. 100 IU or even 150 IU daily, won't get the job done for you

 

[nippy]

I would inject 500 IU of HCG twice a week or even three times a week. Don't inject HCG daily, if you want to increase your estradiol levels. 100 IU or even 150 IU daily, won't get the job done for you

 

[nippy]

So less frequently would boost it ... Sorry to sound stupid but why is that ? Does the body get used to the small amounts and the larger less frequently ones would boost it ?

 

[JA Battle]

So less frequently would boost it ... Sorry to sound stupid but why is that ? Does the body get used to the small amounts and the larger less frequently ones would boost it ?

because of hcg’s rapid onset and short duration there is no way to get serum hcg concentrations up high enough to stimulate leydig cells other than to inject larger amounts at a time. For example 250 iu every other day would be more stimulatory on average to leydig cell function than 125 iu daily in a weeks time.

 

[nippy]

Thanks for that... HCG is a nuisance when traveling . Always having to keep it chilled. Long haul flights ain't good but if the higher amount of HCG works with less injection it may be the answer. . didn't know if estridol could be taken as pill to help .. thanks again

because of hcg’s rapid onset and short duration there is no way to get serum hcg concentrations up high enough to stimulate leydig cells other than to inject larger amounts at a time. For example 250 iu every other day would be more stimulatory on average to leydig cell function than 125 iu daily in a weeks time.

 

[JA Battle]

Thanks for that... HCG is a nuisance when traveling . Always having to keep it chilled. Long haul flights ain't good but if the higher amount of HCG works with less injection it may be the answer. . didn't know if estridol could be taken as pill to help .. thanks again

oral use is not intended for long term use due to liver metabolism of drug and honestly cream is the most ideal and shortest acting. I chose injection because I want pinpoint control of levels.

 

[Vince]

oral use is not intended for long term use due to liver metabolism of drug and honestly cream is the most ideal and shortest acting. I chose injection because I want pinpoint control of levels.

HCG doses under 300 IU along with TRT may not normalize intratesticular testosterone since 250 IU produced an ITT 7% below baseline. 500 IU produced ITT 25% above normal.

 

[Vince]

hCG half life

Whats the half life of hCG ? is the half life different if administered sq versus im? is there a graph where I am able to see the cycle period of hCG if administered EOD? I am trying to time it with test cyp so that there is the least overlap, as the HCG gives me anxiety for 12-16 hours and also...

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