High blood pressure running higher dosage Test and Deca

[Belekas]

To be fair serious question to the op what is the point running higher dosages if your engine is about to pop and you are playing with fire?

 

[JimGainz]

I would go back to the Defy protocol - it’s proven and validated in thousands of men. Your dose is simply too high to run long term - time to get back to physiological levels for a while and reassess. If BP is still high you can lower the Nandrolone or drop it for a bit but I have a feeling it will be normal.

Also - I’m no doctor but I’d prefer whole blood donations - you can do them more frequently and I feel the reduced fluid volume lowers BP. If Ferritin is low - take iron supplements a few days afterwards - it will raise Ferritin without affecting hematocrit.

 

[finkelet]

Also get ur high blood pressure treated, get on beta blockers ,you are in the game now and ull be chasing ur tail taking drugs to fix that side effect then more drugs to fix their side effects go to the drs and ask to be put on medication to lower ur blood pressure, you only get one heart. Im lucky im still here I exploded mine a few years ago takin the wrong shit. For too long and goin too hard. Iearn from my mistakes

Not a physician, but I am a critical care paramedic and a long time TRT patient.

Obviously the first advice would be to lower your doses and split them into every other day or daily doses to minimize side effects.

For your hypertension my advice would be a diuretic (water pill) like HCTZ although that can cause ED issues. For a beta blocker the only one I’d look at is Bystolic. It works great and actually potentates NO production. So it will increase your pump everywhere. You can also try low dose daily cialis to both increase that pump and lower your BP a little further.

Best wishes.

 

[Jed Dorsey]

Hi everyone
Quick update as of this morning
I donated automated double red at 10am this morning. The donation place tested my blood and showed 50 HCT and 16 on the hemoglobin. So nothing too crazy and i already knew HCT wasnt my issues because my labs usually dont show HCT over 50. Anyways came home BP still 160/80, 150/90 give or take. Felt like shit. Went to a general practitioner and asked for 20mg Telmisartan. Took the 20mg waited 45min nothing added another 20mg and BP is now hovering around 123/76, 127/78.
For those asking im 5'11, 190lbs around 13-14% measured with skin caliper.
The high BP in my opinion is def due to the 400mg test and deca 200mg, i cant see any other reason, considering i lift 5 days a week and eat pretty damn clean.


Following questions remain:
-why is my resting heart beat continuously in high 90's or low 100,101,102, while the BP has now dropped?
- where do i go from here on dosages ? stay on current 400/200 or maybe 300/150, or 200/100 or just 200 test and take deca out and go back to my defy protocol? Hate to do this considering ill prob lose mass
- why is the damn blood pressure med so expensive ? with insurance i paid $1.27 per tablet for Telmisartan 20mg tablets.
- Is staying on BP med sustainable long term? I checked drug interaction site and it doesnt interfere with any of the meds i take, thank god
-anyone here take higher dosdages with BP meds? whats your experience ? Is it sustainable?

Please add opinions to the above and not salt discussions, i hardly use any salt and its usually ms dash for me and the occasional eating out that's all
I just dont want this convo to turn into another salt debate, we have plenty of those already

I’m on 200 mg Nandrolone 140mg Testosterone Cyp weekly I been on this protocol now for about 8 months I keep BP under control with BP med Triamterin 37.5mg daily I pay $10 for month supply with insurance. I also donate whole blood every 2 months. The only issue is high PSA of 4+ but I notice when I cut back on Test dose PSA drops to normal so not too concerning considering.

 

[Jed Dorsey]

I would go back to the Defy protocol - it’s proven and validated in thousands of men. Your dose is simply too high to run long term - time to get back to physiological levels for a while and reassess. If BP is still high you can lower the Nandrolone or drop it for a bit but I have a feeling it will be normal.

Also - I’m no doctor but I’d prefer whole blood donations - you can do them more frequently and I feel the reduced fluid volume lowers BP. If Ferritin is low - take iron supplements a few days afterwards - it will raise Ferritin without affecting hematocrit.

Whole blood donation is always best- AGREED

 

[Nelson Vergel]

The high BP in my opinion is def due to the 400mg test and deca 200mg, i cant see any other reason, considering i lift 5 days a week and eat pretty damn clean.

You are 100% right.

Glad you found a BP med that works.
Just don't go crazy with a total androgen dose of 600 mg per week. Diminishing returns if you are screwing your cardiovascular health. Water retention due to kidney sodium metabolism is the cause of high BP when using higher dose androgens.

Testosterone increases water retention in hypogonadal men by affecting kidneys

The effects of growth hormone (GH) on sodium retention and extracellular fluid (ECF) are well established. The mechanisms are not clear but are thought to involve the GH/IGF-I (insulin-like growth factor I) axis. Men and women differ in their ECF and this contributes to men’s higher fat-free...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Manish Talreja]

Using throwaway account here for obvious reasons but i need some NON judgemental advise, considering i already know the levels im on are NOT therapeutic.
I started with defy back in 2015 on 100mg test, 0.25mg anastrzole and 500IU HCG injecting every 3.5d and stayed on this protocol until i moved to Texas in July 2021.
Here the urologist i work with is very liberal and works with a lots of bodybuilders. As my lifting career got serious i asked him to max out my dosages. I've been running 200mg test, 100mg deca, 500IU HCG and 0.5mg anastrozole injecting every 3.5d. So basically everything doubled and ive seen amazing results in the gym for obvious reasons. I've been on this protocol for over one year and labs always looked solid, however i never realized throughout this time that i was having high blood pressure symptoms until 2 weeks ago when severe headaches started and i finally popped a capillary in my eye and wife suggested i get a blood pressure machine. Been coming in consistently at around 160/xx when measuring blood pressure. Last Labs collected in 5/23/2022 the morning prior to my injection showed E2 at 47.3 yet im being told i look puffy in my face so def water retention here.
Ive always been on top of labs but blood pressure just never seemed something i concerned myself with, hell didnt even know how it worked until this week.
My hematocrit this morning is showing 54 (yes i purchased device for that as well). The reason the HCT is higher because they wouldnt let me donate double red due to a damn therapeuticorder someone had placed on my charts allowing me to only do whole blood. Anyways its been removed and im due to donate double red this afternoon.
I also looked at my blood pressure readings charts from the blood donation app and noticed my BP was fine between feb- april when i cut down into single digit body fats. I assume i was dry not holding any water maybe?
Diet is pretty much bodybuilder diet, counting macros etc.
Libido is through the roof, amazing

1. How much will donating double red today drop the BP, if any?
2. if I go back to my old defy protocol how long for BP to drop if at all? If so should i skip next dosage to accelerate process ?
3. If i go back to old defy protocol is it worth keeping the deca in, at the current 2:1 ratio? Basically trying to figure out if the higher test OR deca is causing more issues to BP.
4. I hear Telmisartan is good for BP, not sure i wanna throw in even more junk
5. Maybe increase AI from 0.5mg to 0.75mg every 3.5d, see if it helps with water retention ?

Im simply looking for advise on how to lower the BP as quickly as possible and what could be causing it, my head and eye pressure is awful and im constantly flushing. Just feel like crap and obviously scared of major health implications

Sir,your post,I just loved it. I’m 44. Very healthy,by gods grace and very disciplined. I’m currently on 125mg test weekly +50mg deca Monday + Thursday. Only 0.25 adex on Tuesday. HCG-1000 iu’s twice weekly. Everything is good. But my libido crashed. I want to be on a protocol for life. No ups and downs. I’ve a little high BP since ages. It’s genetic.

Heart health is excellent though. Got my MRI and all scans done. You think 100mg test + 50mg deca Monday,Thursday is good for long term and can help with libido issues.

I love deca cuz psychologically it makes me feel strong even on a very low dose. Or please give your opinion.

Highly appreciate.

 

[Gman86]

Sir,your post,I just loved it. I’m 44. Very healthy,by gods grace and very disciplined. I’m currently on 125mg test weekly +50mg deca Monday + Thursday. Only 0.25 adex on Tuesday. HCG-1000 iu’s twice weekly. Everything is good. But my libido crashed. I want to be on a protocol for life. No ups and downs. I’ve a little high BP since ages. It’s genetic.

Heart health is excellent though. Got my MRI and all scans done. You think 100mg test + 50mg deca Monday,Thursday is good for long term and can help with libido issues.

I love deca cuz psychologically it makes me feel strong even on a very low dose. Or please give your opinion.

Highly appreciate.

So what’s ur total dosages each week? Is this correct?

125mg test
100mc deca
1000iu’s HCG
0.25mg adex

 

[Manish Talreja]

So what’s ur total dosages each week? Is this correct?

125mg test
100mc deca
1000iu’s HCG
0.25mg adex

Yes sir

I take 125mf of testosterone enanthate with 50mg of deca on Monday. Tuesday I take 0.25mg of arimidex. Wednesday night I take 1000ius of HCG.

Thursday I take 50mg of deca. Friday I take 1000ius of HCG. SO total test weekly is 125mg. Deca weekly 100mg. Adex 0.25mg weekly. HCG-2000ius weekly.

Much appreciated.

 

[Gman86]

Yes sir

I take 125mf of testosterone enanthate with 50mg of deca on Monday. Tuesday I take 0.25mg of arimidex. Wednesday night I take 1000ius of HCG.

Thursday I take 50mg of deca. Friday I take 1000ius of HCG. SO total test weekly is 125mg. Deca weekly 100mg. Adex 0.25mg weekly. HCG-2000ius weekly.

Much appreciated.

Why such a high dose of HCG? I would imagine that all the HCG ur taking could be contributing greatly to ur libido issues. I would personally try to find the lowest effective dose of HCG if ur looking to prevent testicular atrophy, and if ur trying to have a child I would see if 1000iu’s per week will do the trick. I’ve personally never had to take more than 1000iu’s per week of HCG to remain fertile. 2000iu’s per week is way too much imo. If fertility isn’t a concern for u, would start at around 250-300iu’s/ week, and titrate up 100iu’s every 7-10 days until u get the benefits from it that ur looking for

 

[Manish Talreja]

S

Why such a high dose of HCG? I would imagine that all the HCG ur taking could be contributing greatly to ur libido issues. I would personally try to find the lowest effective dose of HCG if ur looking to prevent testicular atrophy, and if ur trying to have a child I would see if 1000iu’s per week will do the trick. I’ve personally never had to take more than 1000iu’s per week of HCG to remain fertile. 2000iu’s per week is way too much imo. If fertility isn’t a concern for u, would start at around 250-300iu’s/ week, and titrate up 100iu’s every 7-10 days until u get the benefits from it that ur looking for

Sir,I’ve seen,when I take very low dose of HCG,it doesn’t help. I was consulting Dr Rand McClain,for very long. He also suggests use of HCG. Even Dr George touliatos suggests the same.

But yes,I’ll try coming down to 500 iu’s twice a week and see for sure.

Still,you suggest this protocol is fine or should I add testosterone or do what??

Thank you.

 

[Gman86]

S

Sir,I’ve seen,when I take very low dose of HCG,it doesn’t help. I was consulting Dr Rand McClain,for very long. He also suggests use of HCG. Even Dr George touliatos suggests the same.

But yes,I’ll try coming down to 500 iu’s twice a week and see for sure.

Still,you suggest this protocol is fine or should I add testosterone or do what??

Thank you.

Ya I think the very high HCG dose is what’s messing with ur libido the most. I wouldn’t alter ur test or deca dosages rn. U could maybe try 75mg of deca, but would keep ur text dose where it is. I would try 500iu’s if HCG per week first, and if u lose the benefits of HCG like u said u do when u use low doses, I would just bump ur dose up a bit. But I would at least try the lower dose first for a week or two. If I were u I might even drop the HCG all together for 2 weeks just to see if ur libido improves. U can go back on the HCG right after that, but it would be good to know if it is in fact the HCG that’s messing with ur libido

 

[Fortunate]

OP, you’ve been given some good advice by the likes of @readalot and others. You are in a hypertensive crisis due to the massive doses of androgens you have been using. The first thing you should do is back off. once you get your blood pressure figured out, you can worry about your TRT protocol.

Blood pressure is complex and numerous variables are involved. Donating blood simply will not impact your blood pressure, especially in the long run.

There are various classes of antihypertensive medications all with different mechanisms of action. Picking one is not as simple as which one works “best“. But, which medication is best for you depends on a number of variables, including your electrolytes, kidney function, liver function, other meds you take etc. You may ultimately require antihypertensive medication, but the first thing you need to do is back off the androgens, and I would stay away from thyroid medication for now, as that will, potentially worsen your hypertension.

If you dial back your TRT and you still have blood pressure issues, you may very well require medication. I would respectfully recommend that you don’t look for answers here on this forum, but that you get into your primary care physician as possible and outline a game plan.