Has anyone tried creams and felt better on injections?

[Vman]

Thanks for such a detailed account of your experience on the cream. It’s also nice hearing someone’s experience that tried both, and hearing the pros and cons.

Last questions. Do you mind sharing what doctor you see for TRT? Also, how much were you paying for a 30ml topiclick cream bottle? I currently pay $72 for each 30ml bottle of cream with Defy. I’ve heard good things about medquest, but defy doesn’t allow prescriptions through them, as far as I know.

Actually, my doses were wrong. I started on 100mg 2xday, then 200mg 2xday, then 300mg 2xday and finally 400mg 2xday. It was 20% compounded cream in 200mg/ml Atrevis base (versabase didn't work for me). The 100mg 2xday dose cost $160 for 3 months. It didn't come in a topiclick. Medquest sent topipump and I can't remember how many ml per container. I just have the price for 3 months for the different doses I was on. My doc is a local doc in the Seattle area that is mentored by Neil Rouzier. If you're in the Seattle area PM me and I'll send you his info.

 

[SSHSSA74]

My labs were run in a 4-5 hour window after the first application each morning. So I'd apply like 8am, run labs noon-1pm.

I felt great and had insane libido at the 150mg and 200mg 2x day doses. At the 50mg and 100mg 2x day doses my TT and FT were low-midrange like TT 500 FT 120 and I didn't really notice any improvement at those doses vs pre-TRT. At 150mg and 200mg 2xday I really felt great. Morning wood, lots of energy, zest for life, great gym results and wanted to have sex multiple times a day. I really felt amazing on cream. I definitely would have stayed on cream if I did not have skin irritation issues.

That said. Injections have their benefits. One injection a day (faster than cream and drying). No transferral. Can workout right away. Can shower right away. Can get very precise with TT and FT levels.

Do you know if Medquest uses Versabase for their T cream?

 

[txmx]

Actually, my doses were wrong. I started on 100mg 2xday, then 200mg 2xday, then 300mg 2xday and finally 400mg 2xday. It was 20% compounded cream in 200mg/ml Atrevis base (versabase didn't work for me). The 100mg 2xday dose cost $160 for 3 months. It didn't come in a topiclick. Medquest sent topipump and I can't remember how many ml per container. I just have the price for 3 months for the different doses I was on. My doc is a local doc in the Seattle area that is mentored by Neil Rouzier. If you're in the Seattle area PM me and I'll send you his info.

Thanks for the update on quantities. Wow. 20% cream in a TopiClick at 400mgx2=800mg/day would get expensive. Through Defy you pay $72 per 30ml TopiClick plus shipping. 50mg per click=16 clicks for 800mg/day. Topiclick has 120 clicks, so 7.5 days. So about $10/day at that rate! Almost bathing in the cream at that point. 100mgx2=200mg/day, about $2.50/day is a lot more reasonable. And you can get more absorption by using a hot/wet compress before application to hydrate.

 

[Virilist]

Creams should be applied transcrotally to be most efficient. I think this is where most guys go wrong. Other sites like delts, chest, trunk report an avg of approx 12-14% absoption and then wonder why their results are marginal at best. Stratum is thinnest on scrotum offering highest permeability. Trans scrotal increased my TT way too much.(+>1500). I am also a hyper metabolizer (low shbg guy) and benefit from this. Twice a day applications should be sufficient for sustained blood levels & follow the instructions properly. No life long scar tissue, adhesions, or lipodystrophy from injections, no systemic inflammatory reactions to long term PUFA injections, increased DHT benefits, ease of use,etc. The variability is higher compared to injections, yes. Simply saying any exploratory guys giving cream a try should try the most efficient site of administration (scrotal) and consistently apply q12 hr for 6-8 weeks before knocking it.

 

[Vince]

Creams should be applied transcrotally to be most efficient. I think this is where most guys go wrong. Other sites like delts, chest, trunk report an avg of approx 12-14% absoption and then wonder why their results are marginal at best. Stratum is thinnest on scrotum offering highest permeability. Trans scrotal increased my TT way too much.(+>1500). I am also a hyper metabolizer (low shbg guy) and benefit from this. Twice a day applications should be sufficient for sustained blood levels & follow the instructions properly. No life long scar tissue, adhesions, or lipodystrophy from injections, no systemic inflammatory reactions to long term PUFA injections, increased DHT benefits, ease of use,etc. The variability is higher compared to injections, yes. Simply saying any exploratory guys giving cream a try should try the most efficient site of administration (scrotal) and consistently apply q12 hr for 6-8 weeks before knocking it.

My only issue with creams or gels is, contaminating my lover, kids or grandkids.

 

[SSHSSA74]

My doc starts all his patients off on 2xday cream (including me). 80% of his patients are on cream. 20% on injections. I had skin irritation issues so I had to switch to injections. On cream, I felt great and the libido was insane. Cream was very inconvenient though. The drying and not being able to work out after and worrying about transferral to my wife and kids was very inconvenient.

On injections I feel much more level and it's way easier to get the TT and FT to the desired levels. Libido is ok, but not teenager crazy like on cream. I inject subq daily which is way more convenient for me than cream.

Which pharmacy did your cream come from?

 

[LakeGuy81]

Has anyone seen HCT be higher on creams than injections? Or the same? My HCT seems to be about the same on creams, if not a little higher, at about the same T levels.

 

[SSHSSA74]

I started at 50mg 2xday, moved up to 100mg 2xday, then 150mg 2xday and finally 200mg 2xday. It was all from Medquest in Utah. It was all to the scrotum except when the doses got high I had to apply to inner thighs cause there was so much cream. I am not a good absorber. At 200mg 2xday I was TT 800 FT 200 (measured 4-5 hours after application). Also, the cost is proportional to the amount you need. 200mg 2xday costs $620 for 3 months supply.

Do you know what base your cream is/was? I just ordered Atrevis Hydrogel from them.

 

[Vman]

Do you know what base your cream is/was? I just ordered Atrevis Hydrogel from them.

I tried two different bases that were both compounded by Medquest. One was versabase, the other was Atrevis. If I remember correctly, I did not absorb hardly anything on the versabase. I absorbed ok on the Atrevis base. It took a ton of cream for me to get my testosterone levels to mid-high of "normal" range and as I mentioned before I had skin irritation issues which couldn't be resolved so I switched to injections a little over 1.5 years ago.

 

[M.J]

Tried cream and didn’t work well for me. Went back to injections, we’ll try to combine them together and see if something happen.

mine point to add here high testosterone level didn’t work well for me. I experienced this on. Cream and injections in both high t level I didn’t feel good at all.

 

[Fortunate]

It is still early for me, but so far, cream has been much better than injections. With injections, it felt as though I was chasing two hormones (E2 and T), and something about the fluctuations made me feel crappy. Or, maybe it was the ester, oil or something else, but I had a tendency to develop anxiety and headaches with injections over time.

I do cream twice a day (AM scrotal + shoulder/PM shoulder) for a total of 150MG/day. Even at this relatively low dose, I feel improved libido, mood and energy. I also feel more even overall compared with the ups and downs of injections. Yes, it's a bit more expensive and inconvenient, but for me the benefits are worth it. I was previously on Natesto, which was three times a day up the nose. If I can tolerate that, I can certainly tolerate taking 20 seconds twice a day to apply the cream.

I think any protocol has to be given sufficient time. Transitioning protocols can provide a "honeymoon" period that is not realistic in the long term. As our body responds to exogenous hormones, we create a new homeostasis set point. If you feel good once achieving this new set point great. If not, then make changes. I say this on the basis of intuition and not hard science.

 

[SSHSSA74]

I've found a significant libido boost with Atrevis 200mg/mL gel from MedQuest. Around 9-10PM, after shower, I apply 2 pumps(total of 200 mg) to inner thigh and wipe residue on scrotum. Around noon or 1PM, I apply one pump (total of 100mg) in the same manner. I don't feel awesome, but I definitely feel better.

 

[goolapsh]

I've found a significant libido boost with Atrevis 200mg/mL gel from MedQuest. Around 9-10PM, after shower, I apply 2 pumps(total of 200 mg) to inner thigh and wipe residue on scrotum. Around noon or 1PM, I apply one pump (total of 100mg) in the same manner. I don't feel awesome, but I definitely feel better.

Is this in combination with injections?

 

[SSHSSA74]

Is this in combination with injections?

no. I have done cream + injections in the past and also liked that protocol as well. Maybe a little better than cream alone. I am also currently taking 400IU hCG 2X per week.

 

[goolapsh]

no. I have done cream + injections in the past and also liked that protocol as well. Maybe a little better than cream alone. I am also currently taking 400IU hCG 2X per week.

Do you notice anything from the hcg?

 

[SSHSSA74]

Do you notice anything from the hcg?

perhaps a SLIGHT increase in libido, larger balls and more semen.

 

[SSHSSA74]

perhaps a SLIGHT increase in libido, larger balls and more semen.

also maybe a little more mental clarity.