Feel horrible on all thyroid meds

[Sjbond67]

Been dealing with this hypo issue since 2014. Since I started meds I gained 70lbs on levo. Switched to nature throid and lost some of the weight but never felt right. I had played around with NP thyroid, armour thyroid, then nature throid with cytomel until Nature Throid was placed on back order and swapped back to Armour.

I dealt with it and even tho thyroid numbers were ok, I figured trt would help. That was started in Nov ‘17. No change in feeling better by Feb ‘18 I quit thyroid meds. Felt horrible for few months but eventually felt better. Took 200mg selenium, 650mg iodine, 100-150mg zinc and few other supplements that I don’t remember off the top of my head. Did this all the way to July feeling a lot better than when I was on thyroid meds but I was still having difficulty losing weight. Attached are my bloods from July. My endo said I needed to start thyroid meds immediately. I begged her for any alternative but she wrote script for armour and told me to recheck in 3 months.

It’s been a month and I feel absolutely horrible on 15mg armour. Brain fog, headache, tired constantly can not even get in the gym. Also something that has been bugging me is I’m extremely sensitive to heat. I take cold showers everyday, House is set to 70 degrees, and if I spend 1 min in 85*+ weather I am drenched in sweat. My appetite is through the roof and I have gained 10lbs. I feel like I’m experiencing hyper symptoms, minus the weight loss. My body aches and it seems to be extremely slow at healing. I’ve had shoulder pain for entire year no improvement. I’m 33 feel like I’m 63.

Labs are July right before starting armour again... at these numbers even with elevated tsh and rt3 I feel 100% better than I ever did on any thyroid meds. I have no clue what to do I feel like I’ve been let down by so many doctors treating numbers. Any insight would be helpful

 

[Sjbond67]

Btw trt dose 80mgx2 per week, last shot was about a week before the year mainly because my endo did not like my tt at 1200

 

[Vettester Chris]

Something's going on, your RT3 is over the top! Elevated RT3 can be a marker for many things, ranging from a cold, flu, mild or major injury, or severe sickness /pathology. It can also shift when variables like iron, cortisol, and a combination of metabolic imbalances.

Do you have other thyroid labs? Really looking to see Free T4 and antibodies (TPO & TgAb) if you have them with the other reported labs? Also wanting to see iron & ferritin, and adrenals.

For the record, 15mg of NDT is a 1/4 grain. Is there really someone prescribing that little of amount?? The good news is that with your RT3, the minimal prescription dosage is a blessing! The RT3 situation is stating that your body is in a mode of "conservation", so adding any substantial active T4 & T3 to your system will just be problematic.

Please list any other medications, health isssues, diabetes, injuries, etc.? Also, the antibodies is one area that should be explored ASAP, needing to see if autoimmune is in play ... Thanks

 

[Vettester Chris]

Btw trt dose 80mgx2 per week, last shot was about a week before the year mainly because my endo did not like my tt at 1200

They should treat the patient, not the number!

 

[Sjbond67]

Thank you for the reply. I don’t know what’s going on with labcorp but I’m not able to access any of my labs. From top of my head I remember my TPO Antibodies were 14, I remember one Doc saying he wanted them around 9. I don’t think my iron, ferritin and adrenals have ever been tested. My cortisol was tested once but only in blood test in am, it was within range.

Not sure if this has anything to do with it but I use to get sick every year from 5th grade all the way to junior year in high school with strep throat. I imagine the antibiotics took toll on system. When I was 24 I was told I was pre diabetic at 300lbs... I had started Atkins diet and lost 80lbs. My weight fluctuates for a while then leveled off at 230 while eating normally. Wasn’t until the levothyroxine I gained weight quickly.

In the past year my a1c has fluctuated from 4.7 to 5.6. Fasting glucose always around 90-110. I’ve maybe been sick 2-3 times in past 8 years nothing serious. I’ve not had any major injuries, I did have a pretty bad concussion 12 years ago that I never did get check out. Was at a camp ground and fell off leveled rv spot. Other than that can’t think of much else I try to eat healthy as much as possible and work out. Drink socially 2-3 days out of the month.. maybe sometimes not drink at all some months.

My weight has been extremely difficult to lose. It will take me 3-4 months to lose 8-10 lbs then out of nonwhere I will gain 15lbs back even on 2,000-2,200 cal diet. On top of feeling like I’m hung over everyday.

 

[Sjbond67]

Also dr had me bumped up to 30mg for a week and I felt even worse so I dropped it back down to 15mg

 

[Sjbond67]

Also my endo is not managing my trt, I do telemedicine with a company that is ok with up to 200mg per week but I think I felt better at 160mg. My endo hates that I’m on trt wants to start me on clomid but I won’t let it happen. Trt has cleared up a lot of other issues I’ve had and I’m comfortable with being on.

 

[Vince]

Chris mention your reverse T3, very high. To feel good I believe you need to correct that first.

 

[Sjbond67]

Vince funny thing is I feel 1000% better with those labs taking no thyroid meds VS taking thyroid meds and having better numbers. I don’t know how to lower tsh and rt3. Selenium iodine zinc for 7-8 months didn’t help

 

[Sjbond67]

I was feeling pretty bad this am... pressure in my head. I didn’t take any meds today and slowly feel better. I either have another issue going on or I just respond very poorly to these meds. I have no allergies.

 

[Vince]

Vince funny thing is I feel 1000% better with those labs taking no thyroid meds VS taking thyroid meds and having better numbers. I don’t know how to lower tsh and rt3. Selenium iodine zinc for 7-8 months didn’t help

Taking synthetic T4 can raise your reverse T3, because you have more you have more T4 to convert into reverse T3. It would be nice to see your Labs on thyroid meds.

When you say you're taking iodine do you mean 650 mcg?

 

[Sjbond67]

Yes 650-975mcg, 2-3 325mcg caps.

Here are labs 3 months prior to July labs. So it looks like rt3 was getting better but tsh number was worsening. I felt fine this was 3-4 months of meds.

 

[Sjbond67]

Here are labs from January. I believe this was right when I stopped armour. I would have been on 30mg armour I believe for 3-4 months. My endo said it would be fine if I came off the meds.

 

[Systemlord]

It sounds like your doctor is dosing you incorrectly causing RT3 to increase rather than decrease, that is probably why you feel better without thyroid meds. Doctors incorrectly dosing patients is more common than one might think.

If taking thyroid meds with T4, there's no way to prevent T4 from converting to RT3. The proper course of action is T3 only meds. This will increase Free T3 and lower Reverse T3.

It's time for a new doctor.

 

[Vince]

Yeah I agree, the T4 that he's prescribing is actually increasing your reverse T3. You need to get your reverse T3 down to feel good.

 

[Sjbond67]

The high rt3 is without meds. Rt3 is around 20 on meds and feel horrible. Armour is t4 and t3, doesn’t matter if add t3 or not. I can not find a dr or endo that will rx only cytomel, the one I did find wanted $150 a visit and $150 a month for the meds and that was only 9mcg of compounded t3

 

[Vince]

The high rt3 is without meds. Rt3 is around 20 on meds and feel horrible. Armour is t4 and t3, doesn’t matter if add t3 or not. I can not find a dr or endo that will rx only cytomel, the one I did find wanted $150 a visit and $150 a month for the meds and that was only 9mcg of compounded t3

It's dangerous to supplement with only T3, I definitely wouldn't recommend it sounds like you're not going to do it anyways.

http://www.tiredthyroid.com/rt3-2.html
http://www.tiredthyroid.com/rt3-8.html

 

[Sjbond67]

Honestly, I don’t want any of these meds. I did try t3 only once and it didn’t make me feel any different. I came home today and crashed out and this is the beginning of what I’ve been through in the past. Calling Doc tomorrow telling her I’m coming off these meds, I feel sick on them. Rt3 dropped 6.5 points from March to July off meds... I think I just needed more time for it to work it’s way down. All of my symptoms I’m having are related to the medication I’m taking.

I noticed my iodine was 47.1 ref 40-90... I take it that’s on the lower side. Wonder if that would have any effect on some of my numbers.

I know the Doc will want new bloods when I tell her I’m coming off she will probably want to know why I feel like crap. Is there any other blood work that I need done? Is there specific name for adrenal testing?

 

[Vettester Chris]

Here's how it works ... FT3 does its magic when it gets to the cells. If something is amiss, say iron or cortisol, FT3 won't adequately get to the cells, it will hit a roadblock, or better known as "Pooling", it just builds up. The body picks up on this real quick, thus the shift to Reverse T3. It's redirecting T4 to take another pathway. It's actually one of the most amazing aspects of how our body will protect and conserve in a regulatory manner.

So, if you administer T3-Only when the body has one of these imbalances, you will indeed lower TSH to the bottom range, which in turn will drop the demand for T4 production, which means there won't be any real RT3 conversion to speak of (Sounds awesome right?) ... So on paper you can manipulate the natural order of things and reduce RT3, which is a feel-good with thinking it went away. However, the 'problem' with whatever imbalance was causing this still exists, and if you were Pooling before this change up, you will still be pooling after the T3-only protocol. It's just now you don't have a safety net to shift the T3-FT3 conversion (T4 to RT3), and it will be like feeding the fire.

Not saying T3 only can't or shouldn't be an option for hypothyroidism. On the contrary, I do it (and have administered NDT as well). Just saying, if you see your RT3 at the level you posted above, that's a marker that needs to be listened to. It's happening because something is off in the body, and there's a very good chance it's elevated because one or more of the variables needed to get T3 to the cells are not where they need to be.

 

[Sjbond67]

thanks for the explaination. For some reason I feel like this is not a thyroid issue. When I first was diagnosed and knew nothing about thyroid I was on a low carb diet... which I know now absence of carbs can affect tsh number. I’m going to try and get other blood work done, 4 years chasing throid and have had no progress start wear on me