FAT LOSS DIFFICULTY - PART II

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mcs

Member
Original thread here.

Updated observations:

• Only positive out of all the slow gain in weight/bf is in strength increase of between 20-25%

• Workouts just keep me toned at this point, slow to recomp (add or retain LBM/losing fat)

• Calorie restriction/deficit does work – am losing a little fat. Still not the definition and leanness I was able to achieve in my 20s. No shit, I'm 62 and my GH, test, insulin, thyroid, adrenals, etc. aren't at the youthful levels they once were!

• Low-carb/keto – no longer seems to have much effect on fat loss if there ever was one.

• Kept calories the same (~ 2000) but started to gain more fat over the last four years slowly.

• Even when I was at my most lean (mid 20s), I still was skinny fat around the waist/lower abs.

• 1750kcals/day is my maintenance intake regardless of activity (I am 62 and not a big guy @ about 5-6). As soon as I hit 2000 kcals, I start putting on weight; mostly any excess energy intake will partition quickly to adipose storage regardless of which macro - (fat being the most hypercaloric so will increase bf% the fastest).
The Effects of Overfeeding on Body Composition: The Role of Macronutrient Composition – A Narrative Review

• 1500kcals or less is what it takes to lose weight/bf. I was at 193lbs and only through calorie restriction, was able to get to 186lbs in the 5 weeks. To achieve enough recomp where my bf gets to <20%, I will need to lose a minimum of another 20lbs while trying to preserve as much LBM by continuing resistance exercise and keeping protein intake static @ 1g/lb of bodyweight.

• Fat accumulation: atypical android fat distribution; strangely, no subcutaneous fat accumulates below my navel (beltline) starting at linguinal crease.

• I am slightly more insulin-resistant despite eating low carb last 10 years; aerobic exercise = improved glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity. Don't notice as much improvement in glucose metabolism/insulin sensitivity with resistance training.

• Any food consumed past 8pm ferments and metabolizes much slower, resulting in increased breath gut gas scores and fasting glucose. Can't recomp if FBG is above 90?


• Even at 30lbs less, I was still not vascular and lean enough. I was most lean was when I weighed about 40lbs less which was only time I was able to see abs and bicep veins but I also had a lot less lean mass.

• I was 20+ pounds less 7 years ago. How could I have gained fat progressively in that time when I have been eating same amount of calories and diet and actually increased activity level?

In my estimation, this all points to genetic aging and gradual age-related decline of GH, testosterone, thyroid hormone function and insulin sensitivity. My estrogen seems to be ok (E2 @ 21). At this point, I think any increase to my workouts or other dietary manipulation will be minor at best, as I've already pushed myself enough. Some calorie restriction will help reduce some bf, but I feel won't be enough to get to where I feel I need to be.

I think it will be too difficult to recomp at my age with total T in the low 400s and low free and bio. I agree with Systemlord: "One long-term study found that long-term testosterone replacement therapy was associated with sustained weight loss. In the study, men with low testosterone were given the option to receive testosterone replacement injections. Those in the TRT group on average lost 20% of their body weight.
You are operating at a big disadvantage with your testosterone in the gutter."

What about a few weeks of PSMF (protein sparing modified fast) - basically, high protein, low carbs, low fat?

Eventual chemical enhancement (TRT, tesamorelin/ipamorelin/CJC1295); in the meantime, increase NDT to finally suppress stubborn TSH to <2.0. Prior thread on that
here.

Thoughts?

p.s. any tips for suppressing late night appetite cravings?
 
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BigTex

Well-Known Member
You tried low carb with metformin? Lots of bodybuilders use metformin to drop weight, combined with HGH (even GHRH/GHRP).
 

mcs

Member
I think a lot of folks can be 20%body fat and be healthy. Maybe you are fighting what your body wants to keep. Why do you want to lose more fat?
It is over that right now. Why do I want to lose it? Because at that level and higher you risk worse insulin resistance, inflammation, blood pressure, sleep apnea, etc. Fat is not just fat on the body. It is actually an organ that secretes inflammatory cytokines that can cause all sorts of diseases when it is in excess. 20% might be OK for somebody who is sedentary and doesn't work out. I think for a non-enhanced athlete, 10-15% body fat is optimal. Besides, the majority of us look so much better and feel much better and more fit when we are in that body fat range.
 
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Fernando Almaguer

Well-Known Member
It is over that right now. Why do I want to lose it? Because at that level and higher you risk worse insulin resistance, inflammation, blood pressure, sleep apnea, etc. Fat is not just fat on the body. It is actually an organ that secretes inflammatory cytokines that can cause all sorts of diseases when it is in excess. 20% might be OK for somebody who is sedentary and doesn't work out. I think for a non-enhanced athlete, 10-15% body fat is optimal. Besides, the majority of us look so much better and feel much better and more fit when we are in that body fat range.
If your blood work is saying you are insulin resistant, hba1c is high or you are prediabetic.. I recommend metformin or berberine. With all the exercise maybe you are increasing inflammation too much. I'm not sure
Also introducing NEAT into your routine will help for sure.

One other suggestion is to incorporate fermented foods into your diet, often and consistently. There is a study that shows fermented foods lower inflammation in humans significantly compared to high fiber diets.

I enjoy light greek yogurt, low sugar kombucha and keifer milk.
 

mcs

Member
If your blood work is saying you are insulin resistant, hba1c is high or you are prediabetic.. I recommend metformin or berberine. With all the exercise maybe you are increasing inflammation too much. I'm not sure
Also introducing NEAT into your routine will help for sure.

One other suggestion is to incorporate fermented foods into your diet, often and consistently. There is a study that shows fermented foods lower inflammation in humans significantly compared to high fiber diets.

I enjoy light greek yogurt, low sugar kombucha and keifer milk.
Yes, am taking all of the above, thanks.
 

BigTex

Well-Known Member
It is over that right now. Why do I want to lose it? Because at that level and higher you risk worse insulin resistance, inflammation, blood pressure, sleep apnea, etc. Fat is not just fat on the body. It is actually an organ that secretes inflammatory cytokines that can cause all sorts of diseases when it is in excess. 20% might be OK for somebody who is sedentary and doesn't work out. I think for a non-enhanced athlete, 10-15% body fat is optimal. Besides, the majority of us look so much better and feel much better and more fit when we are in that body fat range.


Your goals are honestly all that matter. We all have to be able to live with ourselves and our self imagine is very important. Here are the norms.



Exercise is the best thing you can do to reduce inflammation.

Beavers, K. M., Brinkley, T. E., & Nicklas, B. J. (2010). Effect of exercise training on chronic inflammation. Clinica chimica acta; international journal of clinical chemistry, 411(11-12), 785–793. Redirecting
 
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Guided_by_Voices

Well-Known Member
A few thoughts:

- Have you tried fasting with nothing but mineral water/broth for at least 3 days at a time? The benefits of fasting keep piling up and you are sure to lose some fat in the process.
- While I am a big proponent of low carb as an option and a starting point. some people, especially people as active as you are seem to do better on moderate carbs in the 100-200 gram per day level as recommended in the book The Perfect Health Diet. I was at my leanest eating in this range.
- The key benefit of low carb is up-regulating fat burning, but if you have achieved this then higher carbs should not be a problem for many people, and may be helpful.
- Do you cycle your calories? Chronic low-calorie eating seems to create fat-loss resistance in many people. It's as though the body is trying to protect its fat stores.
 

mcs

Member
A few thoughts:

- Have you tried fasting with nothing but mineral water/broth for at least 3 days at a time? The benefits of fasting keep piling up and you are sure to lose some fat in the process.
- While I am a big proponent of low carb as an option and a starting point. some people, especially people as active as you are seem to do better on moderate carbs in the 100-200 gram per day level as recommended in the book The Perfect Health Diet. I was at my leanest eating in this range.
- The key benefit of low carb is up-regulating fat burning, but if you have achieved this then higher carbs should not be a problem for many people, and may be helpful.
- Do you cycle your calories? Chronic low-calorie eating seems to create fat-loss resistance in many people. It's as though the body is trying to protect its fat stores.
20/4 IF is the most I have gone and probably feel comfortable with. After about 30 hours, I would be concerned about catabolizing lean mass, a no-no. At least that's what the studies have shown. Cycling carbs/kcals is something I need to explore, but need a strict template to follow. Winging it ain't gonna cut it. And I agree, staying in a deficit for too long = thyroid suppression.
 

KevinS

Member
30 years of diet and exercise and I haven't found any magic - have been up and down 30, 50, 100 pounds a multiple times. it just needs constraint attention. things that always trip me up are injury, stress, and boredom. Paleo/Keto/low carb was not sustainable, Vegan/'Heart Healthy' made me feel like crap. Intermittent fasting helped me for a while, I could not keep it up working from home and can't seem to get it going now I am retired. I could only do it while I was busy and going into the office. TRT did help me get down about 40 pounds, but then I have put on about 10 of muscle - when I really wanted to lose another 40, so kind of stuck right now, my body wants to put on muscle. Cardio makes me hungry. Keep trying things, try to stay give something a few months consistently to see what it does for you, don't give up too soon. Good luck.
 

mcs

Member
30 years of diet and exercise and I haven't found any magic - have been up and down 30, 50, 100 pounds a multiple times. it just needs constraint attention. things that always trip me up are injury, stress, and boredom. Paleo/Keto/low carb was not sustainable, Vegan/'Heart Healthy' made me feel like crap. Intermittent fasting helped me for a while, I could not keep it up working from home and can't seem to get it going now I am retired. I could only do it while I was busy and going into the office. TRT did help me get down about 40 pounds, but then I have put on about 10 of muscle - when I really wanted to lose another 40, so kind of stuck right now, my body wants to put on muscle. Cardio makes me hungry. Keep trying things, try to stay give something a few months consistently to see what it does for you, don't give up too soon. Good luck.
I don't see what your problem is. In fact I'd like to have your problem. Putting on muscle and losing fat? That is the best that could happen as muscle is metabolically active in a positive way unlike fat which just causes more inflammation. What I need to do is recomp. If I gained weight but it was all lean mass that accomplishes the task. Losing "weight" is a misnomer. Body composition is the key not weight gain or loss which is why I said "fat loss" instead of "weight loss".
 
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sammmy

Well-Known Member
If you are not taking any meds, taking digestive fiber like Citrucell (cellulose) with meals will slow down and partially block food digestion - less glucose-insulin spikes, less fat stored.

A possible problem is that it also may block absorption of oral drugs and some vitamins/nutrients in food, leading to malabsorption.
 

nodoctor

Active Member
Check out my thread on semaglutide--total game changer for me. Stabilized blood sugar, suppressed appetite and more. You should be measuring fat % regularly if that's a major goal right? I was 14% and now just under 13% and headed to 8%, so my perspective is not perfect of course. In my humble opinion HRT isn't enhanced as much as it is restored. People used to live to 30. If you want to live a full life to 120-140, hrt seems like a logic step.

I like berberine but didn't feel a huge change. Metformin was big and helpful but gave me the shits. I believe its effects are lasting so you can get off and still have stable blood sugar. I had 6.3 a1c and now 5.4 or so from diet and exercise.

My favorite solution to night-time cravings is work out hard to be very tired, and sleep so I don't notice the hunger, but i know that doesn't work for everyone.
 
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