E2 levels for low SHBG guys (0-15)?

[Diablo666]

Hi All,

Can low SHBG guys comment on what is your protocol? and Whether it works successfully for libido and energy? -

From what I have read and in my personal case, when E2 is low, mirroring SHBG values, it is like the sweet spot, and rationale is that the low SHBG makes too much of free E2 in the body, so that is why we don't need as much as most other people.

However, I think I have seen a few cases of guys reporting they feel good at 25-30 E2 even with low SHBG. Wondering what could be the cause.

Also, have Test Cream worked in your case if you gave tried?

 

[Systemlord]

Low SHBG sometimes calls for daily injections, I felt best on daily protocols when not running into vitamin deficiencies. Since I have low SHBG I only need around 400 ng/dL to feel good which puts my estrogen at 28, note this estrogen was only 28 and consider I was 31% body fat.

I never tried the creams.

 

[Vince Carter]

I'm one that sells the position that your E2 trough might need to mirror that SHBG value. This made a lot of difference for me. I have real positive progress when my E2 is in the single digits (trough). My body acne has cleared, sensitivity improved, orgasm is much better, lots of positives. Short of some erection issues that persist I'd be extremely happy.

I've too made the suggestion that maybe E2 should be managed from the peak, instead.

My Free Estrogen I've seen double to over the lab range @ 12hrs post injection on 14mg/D and that's with .25mg/D, too.

I over aromatase for no reason and I'm very sensitive to even a little too much E.

you have to keep in mind that E follows T, if you're looking at the trough alone thats just a low point...where is your PEAK?

We too know that SHBG binds E just like it does T, you could reasonably presume that if your Free T is over the lab range that your estrogen is following.

When guys say that they're doing great on X level of Estrogen you always have to account that the sides that they MAY be experiencing just aren't that problematic, to them. For me being hot and overly warm in bed at night doesn't sound all that bad, but it disrupts my sleep for hours and that's intolerable, for ME.

 

[Charliebizz]

I'm one that sells the position that your E2 trough might need to mirror that SHBG value. This made a lot of difference for me. I have real positive progress when my E2 is in the single digits (trough). My body acne has cleared, sensitivity improved, orgasm is much better, lots of positives. Short of some erection issues that persist I'd be extremely happy.

I've too made the suggestion that maybe E2 should be managed from the peak, instead.

My Free Estrogen I've seen double to over the lab range @ 12hrs post injection on 14mg/D and that's with .25mg/D, too.

I over aromatase for no reason and I'm very sensitive to even a little too much E.

you have to keep in mind that E follows T, if you're looking at the trough alone thats just a low point...where is your PEAK?

We too know that SHBG binds E just like it does T, you could reasonably presume that if your Free T is over the lab range that your estrogen is following.

When guys say that they're doing great on X level of Estrogen you always have to account that the sides that they MAY be experiencing just aren't that problematic, to them. For me being hot and overly warm in bed at night doesn't sound all that bad, but it disrupts my sleep for hours and that's intolerable, for ME.

great post Vince. Just goes to show how different we are. That’s why this is the last of the good forums. I feel like we have honest guys here.

 

[Diablo666]

I'm one that sells the position that your E2 trough might need to mirror that SHBG value. This made a lot of difference for me. I have real positive progress when my E2 is in the single digits (trough). My body acne has cleared, sensitivity improved, orgasm is much better, lots of positives. Short of some erection issues that persist I'd be extremely happy.

I've too made the suggestion that maybe E2 should be managed from the peak, instead.

My Free Estrogen I've seen double to over the lab range @ 12hrs post injection on 14mg/D and that's with .25mg/D, too.

I over aromatase for no reason and I'm very sensitive to even a little too much E.

you have to keep in mind that E follows T, if you're looking at the trough alone thats just a low point...where is your PEAK?

We too know that SHBG binds E just like it does T, you could reasonably presume that if your Free T is over the lab range that your estrogen is following.

When guys say that they're doing great on X level of Estrogen you always have to account that the sides that they MAY be experiencing just aren't that problematic, to them. For me being hot and overly warm in bed at night doesn't sound all that bad, but it disrupts my sleep for hours and that's intolerable, for ME.

Hey Vince,
Do you manage E2 using sensitive test or free estradiol test? Is your E2 peak 12 hrs post injection?

 

[Vince Carter]

Acutally I use all three tests currently I think I'm doing my best when the Sensitive is at or just below my SHBG, last SHBG was 12.

ECLIA
Sensitive
Estradiol, Free

I was able to run some tests at 8hrs post, 12hrs post, and 28hrs post. I see a drop in my values @ 8hrs post (12 noon), but a rise starting at 12hrs (4pm). The 12hrs testing was 4pm and that's when my lab closes so I can't see where things are at after 12hrs injection.

The large rise in my Free E @ 4pm corresponds with symptoms of tiredness, and poor sexual attitude and performance.

 

[brunoreus]

Hi All,

Can low SHBG guys comment on what is your protocol? and Whether it works successfully for libido and energy? -

From what I have read and in my personal case, when E2 is low, mirroring SHBG values, it is like the sweet spot, and rationale is that the low SHBG makes too much of free E2 in the body, so that is why we don't need as much as most other people.

However, I think I have seen a few cases of guys reporting they feel good at 25-30 E2 even with low SHBG. Wondering what could be the cause.

Also, have Test Cream worked in your case if you gave tried?

And how do you lower estrogen to make it mirror SHBG?

 

[Diablo666]

With anaztrozole

 

[brunoreus]

With anaztrozole

But in that case do you even need trt? With that theory the problem would be low shbg + high e2. Not t. Also, what type of dose of anastrozole would put your e2 in the teens or bit less without supressing e?
Thanks

 

[davidrn]

Can i insert another variable, which is popular at this time? How does raising DHT with scrotal T cream effect E2? As I understood it, higher DHT decrease aromitization, and thus possibly lower E2 levels for those with low SHBG. (I have only been over 15 once or twice in the past decade)

 

[Cataceous]

Can i insert another variable, which is popular at this time? How does raising DHT with scrotal T cream effect E2? As I understood it, higher DHT decrease aromitization, and thus possibly lower E2 levels for those with low SHBG. (I have only been over 15 once or twice in the past decade)

I think various results are possible. DHT is said to have mild aromatase-inhibiting activity, so there's the potential to lower estradiol a little. However, my results with scrotal T cream hinted at the opposite. If the higher estradiol was a real effect then it might be argued that any AI activity of the extra DHT was outweighed by excess aromatization in the skin.

 

[brunoreus]

I think various results are possible. DHT is said to have mild aromatase-inhibiting activity, so there's the potential to lower estradiol a little. However, my results with scrotal T cream hinted at the opposite. If the higher estradiol was a real effect then it might be argued that any AI activity of the extra DHT was outweighed by excess aromatization in the skin.

Hey where can I get the scrotal T cream? I heard it does work on low shbg guys right? My concern with that is baldness tho, im very young

 

[brunoreus]

But in that case do you even need trt? With that theory the problem would be low shbg + high e2. Not t. Also, what type of dose of anastrozole would put your e2 in the teens or bit less without supressing e?
Thanks

Does someone know the answer to this?

 

[Cataceous]

Hey where can I get the scrotal T cream? I heard it does work on low shbg guys right? My concern with that is baldness tho, im very young

Compounding pharmacies such as Empower offer testosterone cream. The only thing special about scrotal use is that it should be a cream rather than an alcohol-based gel. Some will find alcohol irritating in a sensitive area like that.

But in that case do you even need trt? With that theory the problem would be low shbg + high e2. Not t. Also, what type of dose of anastrozole would put your e2 in the teens or bit less without supressing e?
Thanks

In theory, someone whose main problem is high estradiol could use AI monotherapy, but it's probably tricky and I haven't heard of anybody doing that long-term.

Estradiol, or E2, is the most potent estrogen (E). If you suppress estradiol then you are suppressing estrogen. Dosing with aromatase inhibitors is a very individual thing. Anastrozole is quite potent, and it's not uncommon for a total of less than 0.25 mg per week in divided doses to reduce estradiol by 20+ pg/mL. Low and slow is essential.

 

[brunoreus]

Compounding pharmacies such as Empower offer testosterone cream. The only thing special about scrotal use is that it should be a cream rather than an alcohol-based gel. Some will find alcohol irritating in a sensitive area like that.


In theory, someone whose main problem is high estradiol could use AI monotherapy, but it's probably tricky and I haven't heard of anybody doing that long-term.

Estradiol, or E2, is the most potent estrogen (E). If you suppress estradiol then you are suppressing estrogen. Dosing with aromatase inhibitors is a very individual thing. Anastrozole is quite potent, and it's not uncommon for a total of less than 0.25 mg per week in divided doses to reduce estradiol by 20+ pg/mL. Low and slow is essential.

Do you know the name of a brand of this cream? Because it is not available in my country maybe I can buy it online.
How long does it take for e2 to lower that much?
Im right now with 15mg enanthate daily plus 0.5mg anastrozol EOD and 25mg clomid ED
I have been with this protocol for 18 days. I will do lab tests when I reach a month and see how my free T and e2 are doing? Until the moment feel exactly the same

 

[brunoreus]

Compounding pharmacies such as Empower offer testosterone cream. The only thing special about scrotal use is that it should be a cream rather than an alcohol-based gel. Some will find alcohol irritating in a sensitive area like that.


In theory, someone whose main problem is high estradiol could use AI monotherapy, but it's probably tricky and I haven't heard of anybody doing that long-term.

Estradiol, or E2, is the most potent estrogen (E). If you suppress estradiol then you are suppressing estrogen. Dosing with aromatase inhibitors is a very individual thing. Anastrozole is quite potent, and it's not uncommon for a total of less than 0.25 mg per week in divided doses to reduce estradiol by 20+ pg/mL. Low and slow is essential.

According to the theory that e2 should mirror SHBG my problem and why im feeling shitty is because of high e2 (15 shbg and 34 e2 non sensitive) but also I have a free T of 10pg/ml which I couldnt by any means raise it until the moment (neither with 200mg/week). What would be the good range for free T? Cause I have read very different versions

 

[brunoreus]

With anaztrozole

What type of dose?

 

[brunoreus]

I have recieved today results of estradiol (non sensitive)
Previous results were 33.79 pg/ml, after some time with 0.5mg EOD anastrozol it is 30.37 pg/ml.
I would like to try what @Diablo666 said, mirror e2 to shbg (around 15).
So given that Im not responding too much to anastrozol, what dose would you guys recommend?

 

[Diablo666]

Hi brunoreus. Let me clarify a few things, since I started this thread before trying the scrotal cream as well.

1. The E2 mirroring SHBG even though is not very popular approach, it has worked for a few members on this forum, I think Vince is the other member that I am aware of (and he was also going to try out the cream). The E2 mirroring to SHBG has worked for me when my SHBG was under 15. I believe if SHBG is higher we should be able to tolerate E2 a little higher than SHBG, so basically it is not a linear function.

2. Having said that, I had mixed results, because having E2 artificially low is a very fine line between having it at that level and crashing it. To me, a crash is not bringing E2 to zero, it is bringing it to a level in which I feel like crap, and that was when E2 was under 10-12. So this approach made me feel good for days or even hours, so very very hard to sustain, I even tried daily injections and daily anaztrozole, with again mixed results.

3. After I tried the scrotal cream, I noticed I felt amazing, even with my E2 around 25-30. I attributed this to the fact that the higher DHT allowed me to tolerate a bit more of E2 despite my low SHBG. On the cream once my E2 climbed to >30 I started to lose my libido a bit but not entirely. So I am happy because I found something that allowed me to not having to artificially keep my E2 that low.

4. You asked about my anaztrozole dose, It depends on my T levels, but with 120mg cypionate a week split into 2 or 3 doses, I would need around 0.375mg anaztrozole a week to keep my E2 around 15-18. With 140mg cpyonate a week I would need 0.5mg anaztrozole a week. Right now I am on both injections and cream. I am still trying to dial in but my protocol is 100mg cypionate a week + 100mg cream (1 click AM and 1 click PM), with 0.25mg anaztrozole a week split into 2 doses of 0.125mg. Reason for lower AI is because I can tolerate more E2 because of my higher DHT. I tried this without AI at all, and felt overall good, but not great, and no libido.

5. I would strongly suggest you try the cream even if that means getting it from another country, or maybe travelling to a country that sells it. Please just bear in mind I noticed 3 significant differences between you and me. First, you seem to have a hard time to raise your T even at high doses. I never had that problem, I can get 1,000 T and 40 free T with 140mg cypionate a week split into 2 or 3 doses. 2. You also seem to need much more anaztrozole that I needed. I can crash my E2 too easily if I take more than 0.50mg a week. and 3rd, I took accutane so I suspect I have a mild deficiency that makes me over aromatize and not convert T to DHT as efficient as others (and that is where the cream helps because it gives you much more DHT/T ratio than with just injections).

Hope this info helps, I realize that the E2 mirroring to SHBG was my old advice (and Vinces) before wee tried the cream, so that probably does not apply anymore, I would not recommend it because it is too easy to crash E2.

 

[brunoreus]

Hi brunoreus. Let me clarify a few things, since I started this thread before trying the scrotal cream as well.

1. The E2 mirroring SHBG even though is not very popular approach, it has worked for a few members on this forum, I think Vince is the other member that I am aware of (and he was also going to try out the cream). The E2 mirroring to SHBG has worked for me when my SHBG was under 15. I believe if SHBG is higher we should be able to tolerate E2 a little higher than SHBG, so basically it is not a linear function.

2. Having said that, I had mixed results, because having E2 artificially low is a very fine line between having it at that level and crashing it. To me, a crash is not bringing E2 to zero, it is bringing it to a level in which I feel like crap, and that was when E2 was under 10-12. So this approach made me feel good for days or even hours, so very very hard to sustain, I even tried daily injections and daily anaztrozole, with again mixed results.

3. After I tried the scrotal cream, I noticed I felt amazing, even with my E2 around 25-30. I attributed this to the fact that the higher DHT allowed me to tolerate a bit more of E2 despite my low SHBG. On the cream once my E2 climbed to >30 I started to lose my libido a bit but not entirely. So I am happy because I found something that allowed me to not having to artificially keep my E2 that low.

4. You asked about my anaztrozole dose, It depends on my T levels, but with 120mg cypionate a week split into 2 or 3 doses, I would need around 0.375mg anaztrozole a week to keep my E2 around 15-18. With 140mg cpyonate a week I would need 0.5mg anaztrozole a week. Right now I am on both injections and cream. I am still trying to dial in but my protocol is 100mg cypionate a week + 100mg cream (1 click AM and 1 click PM), with 0.25mg anaztrozole a week split into 2 doses of 0.125mg. Reason for lower AI is because I can tolerate more E2 because of my higher DHT. I tried this without AI at all, and felt overall good, but not great, and no libido.

5. I would strongly suggest you try the cream even if that means getting it from another country, or maybe travelling to a country that sells it. Please just bear in mind I noticed 3 significant differences between you and me. First, you seem to have a hard time to raise your T even at high doses. I never had that problem, I can get 1,000 T and 40 free T with 140mg cypionate a week split into 2 or 3 doses. 2. You also seem to need much more anaztrozole that I needed. I can crash my E2 too easily if I take more than 0.50mg a week. and 3rd, I took accutane so I suspect I have a mild deficiency that makes me over aromatize and not convert T to DHT as efficient as others (and that is where the cream helps because it gives you much more DHT/T ratio than with just injections).

Hope this info helps, I realize that the E2 mirroring to SHBG was my old advice (and Vinces) before wee tried the cream, so that probably does not apply anymore, I would not recommend it because it is too easy to crash E2.

Hello bro,
Before you tried the cream, did you feel the benefits of trt on any protocol?
Hey, I also took accutane and also have low shbg, do you think cream would work on me?
At this point, after trying every possible protocol on injections I always have the same outcome: stronger muscles, more acne. But pre trt symptoms persist: poor erections, poor libido, sensitive nipples, gynecomastia, anxiety, brain fog. So at this point I thought it may be estrogen that is not allowing me to feel the benefits. So I tried with AI but even in a high dose 0.5mg EOD only lowered 3pg/ml. I wanted to try what I read here, mirror to shbg to lower free E.
How long does it take for AI to work or feel it in your case? Ive been with this AI protocol for like a month.
Finally, whats the name of the cream, brand of the cream, something specific so that I can buy it from the US. Can you buy it online over there?
Thank you!