Does anyone use Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin) ?

[Cataceous]

Do you have a link that may help calculate free estradiol based on other values? I found a few journal articles but no ready to go equation.

Spreadsheet for Calculating Free T & E2

 

[madhacker]

I'm around 2:1 (E2: Free T) and Mike at Defy suggested it should be closer to 1:1

Do you have thoughts on this/experience/etc?

Hi there,

May I ask what were your levels of E2 and free testosterone? I’m also curious what dose of testosterone and nandrolone they recommended for your situation? It’s not that people are going to copy your protocol, we’re all adults here, it’s interesting to see different protocols and how they are using it.

 

[Paul M]

Just had my bloods back from a protocol of 50mg enanthate, 40mg nandrolone and 300IU HCG E4D.

TT - 2795 ng/dl
FT - 95 ng/dl
E2 - 36.2 pg/ml
SHBG - 35 nmol/L
Hematocrit - 51 L/L

Doesn't really make sense as before I added the nandrolone my TT was 723 ng/dl on a protocol of 75mg enanthate and 300IU HCG E4D. I cannot believe that by adding roughly 75mg of nandrolone weekly would quadruple my total testosterone levels.

 

[madhacker]

Just had my bloods back from a protocol of 50mg enanthate, 40mg nandrolone and 300IU HCG E4D.

TT - 2795 ng/dl
FT - 95 ng/dl
E2 - 36.2 pg/ml
SHBG - 35 nmol/L
Hematocrit - 51 L/L

Doesn't really make sense as before I added the nandrolone my TT was 723 ng/dl on a protocol of 75mg enanthate and 300IU HCG E4D. I cannot believe that by adding roughly 75mg of nandrolone weekly would quadruple my total testosterone levels.

Those are very interesting lab results. Are you experiencing any side effects of excess androgens such as acne or mood disturbances?

 

[Gman86]

Just had my bloods back from a protocol of 50mg enanthate, 40mg nandrolone and 300IU HCG E4D.

TT - 2795 ng/dl
FT - 95 ng/dl
E2 - 36.2 pg/ml
SHBG - 35 nmol/L
Hematocrit - 51 L/L

Doesn't really make sense as before I added the nandrolone my TT was 723 ng/dl on a protocol of 75mg enanthate and 300IU HCG E4D. I cannot believe that by adding roughly 75mg of nandrolone weekly would quadruple my total testosterone levels.

Was this the standard testosterone test, or the LC/MS/MS testosterone test? Apparently the standard one can’t differentiate testosterone and nandrolone apart, and just adds them together. When on nandrolone, you need to get the LC/MS/MS test done so it only checks for testosterone. Here’s a video I just watched talking about it.

 

[Gman86]

How are you feeling? Do you have your free T, E2 and SHBG levels from the labs when your total T was 723?

 

[Cataceous]

Was this the standard testosterone test, or the LC/MS/MS testosterone test? Apparently the standard one can’t differentiate testosterone and nandrolone apart, and just adds them together. When on nandrolone, you need to get the LC/MS/MS test done so it only checks for testosterone. ...

Does this mean that if you get both types of test then you can determine concentrations of testosterone and nandrolone?

 

[Gman86]

Does this mean that if you get both types of test then you can determine concentrations of testosterone and nandrolone?

Honestly I have no idea. I’m just the messenger. Not really sure how it all works.

 

[eyeheartny]

Hi there,

May I ask what were your levels of E2 and free testosterone? I’m also curious what dose of testosterone and nandrolone they recommended for your situation? It’s not that people are going to copy your protocol, we’re all adults here, it’s interesting to see different protocols and how they are using it.

My levels were all over the place because my protocol has been in flux and some weird lab results came in as well, so I don’t think my labs will be of much interest or use. I had some conflicting results within a week of each other that were pretty confounding. Once I have values from my new protocol I’ll post comparisons with the propionate only trial I was on. In terms of protocols, I came off a test cyp only protocol in October, tried test propionate only for 4-5 weeks and hated it, and am now on test enanthate and nandrolone as of last Thursday.

Protocol is EOD shots, done subcutaneously, of 30mg test enanthate and 24mg of nandrolone. Depending on how I feel I’m RXed up to 30mg of the nandrolone right now but I’m taking it slowly. Since I changed protocol last week I’ve been fighting a cold (wife and lots of our friends have been sick) and experiencing elevated resting heart rate and an increased “awareness” of my heart beat. My heart beats feel heavier, if that makes sense! My Oura ring confirms that my RHR is indeed elevated a bit. Nothing alarming but my body is definitely adjusting and in flux.

 

[Gman86]

My levels were all over the place because my protocol has been in flux and some weird lab results came in as well, so I don’t think my labs will be of much interest or use. I had some conflicting results within a week of each other that were pretty confounding. Once I have values from my new protocol I’ll post comparisons with the propionate only trial I was on. In terms of protocols, I came off a test cyp only protocol in October, tried test propionate only for 4-5 weeks and hated it, and am now on test enanthate and nandrolone as of last Thursday.

Protocol is EOD shots, done subcutaneously, of 30mg test enanthate and 24mg of nandrolone. Depending on how I feel I’m RXed up to 30mg of the nandrolone right now but I’m taking it slowly. Since I changed protocol last week I’ve been fighting a cold (wife and lots of our friends have been sick) and experiencing elevated resting heart rate and an increased “awareness” of my heart beat. My heart beats feel heavier, if that makes sense! My Oura ring confirms that my RHR is indeed elevated a bit. Nothing alarming but my body is definitely adjusting and in flux.

I’m very curious to see how you do on this test and nandrolone protocol.

Did Mike Linkous ever mention to you what his dosages of test and nandrolone were? I know you mentioned that he really likes how he’s feeling on both. If he didn’t specify any dosages he was on, did he at least say what he prefers as far as a test to nandrolone ratio goes? Obviously he gave you a 1:1 ratio, so I’m wondering if that’s what he’s found to be an ideal ratio so far when prescribing protocols that involve both.

 

[eyeheartny]

I’m very curious to see how you do on this test and nandrolone protocol.

Did Mike Linkous ever mention to you what his dosages of test and nandrolone were? I know you mentioned that he really likes how he’s feeling on both. If he didn’t specify any dosages he was on, did he at least say what he prefers as far as a test to nandrolone ratio goes? Obviously he gave you a 1:1 ratio, so I’m wondering if that’s what he’s found to be an ideal ratio so far when prescribing protocols that involve both.

He did not mention, no.

I’m curious how I’ll do as well, both on subjective measures and with bloodwork. Especially with the results that @Paul M posted above, which are curious to say the least.

 

[SilverSurfer]

I’m supposed to get my total testosterone taken this week at my GP For trough levels. I better make sure he orders the LC/MS test then, otherwise my nandrolone is going to have my testosterone over the 1500 cut off.

 

[madhacker]

My levels were all over the place because my protocol has been in flux and some weird lab results came in as well, so I don’t think my labs will be of much interest or use. I had some conflicting results within a week of each other that were pretty confounding. Once I have values from my new protocol I’ll post comparisons with the propionate only trial I was on. In terms of protocols, I came off a test cyp only protocol in October, tried test propionate only for 4-5 weeks and hated it, and am now on test enanthate and nandrolone as of last Thursday.

Protocol is EOD shots, done subcutaneously, of 30mg test enanthate and 24mg of nandrolone. Depending on how I feel I’m RXed up to 30mg of the nandrolone right now but I’m taking it slowly. Since I changed protocol last week I’ve been fighting a cold (wife and lots of our friends have been sick) and experiencing elevated resting heart rate and an increased “awareness” of my heart beat. My heart beats feel heavier, if that makes sense! My Oura ring confirms that my RHR is indeed elevated a bit. Nothing alarming but my body is definitely adjusting and in flux.

Hi eyeheartny,

Thanks for your response.

It would be interesting to see your next labs in regards to your protocol. It would be great for us to have a look, if your willing to share.

On the topic of your protocol dosages, it's exactly what I thought it would be. I agree with Gman, generally speaking physicians are seeing good results using a 1.1 ratio with testosterone being a roughly 5-10% higher than nandrolone. You may be interested in looking into Dr. Edward Lichten. He uses a similar protocol in terms of dosing schedule, but combines with a DHT derived steroid for the use of lowering SHBG to increase free testosterone, but also to complete with DHT receptors.

"Men are prescribed parenteral testosterone in dosages of 80 to 120 mg intramuscularly (IM) per week. The dosage may be doubled in severe cases. Implanted testosterone pellet dosages are 600 to 800 mg every 8 to 12 weeks. To this, nandrolone 40 mg IM once or twice per week and stanozolol 10 to 25 mg per week IM are added. If needed, oxandrolone 2.5 to 10 mg daily is added to the men. For the most severe cases that were not responsive to purely anabolic therapy, human growth hormone at 0.1 mg subcutaneously was added daily."

 

[Paul M]

Those are very interesting lab results. Are you experiencing any side effects of excess androgens such as acne or mood disturbances?

Yes. I have a shorter fuse than I normally would and I'm assuming my prostate has enlarged somewhat as pissing is much more difficult. My PSA is fine though as is prolactin. Also just my arms itch at night for some reason (due to high hematocrit).

How are you feeling? Do you have your free T, E2 and SHBG levels from the labs when your total T was 723?

FT - 12.9
E2 - 25.4
SHBG - 45.7

 

[Gman86]

Yes. I have a shorter fuse than I normally would and I'm assuming my prostate has enlarged somewhat as pissing is much more difficult. My PSA is fine though as is prolactin. Also just my arms itch at night for some reason (due to high hematocrit).



FT - 12.9
E2 - 25.4
SHBG - 45.7

Wow, so free T went up that much?!? I wonder if the free T test is flawed as well when u don’t get the LC/MS/MS version. I forget if he specified about the free T test also being flawed in that video or not.

 

[eyeheartny]

Yes. I have a shorter fuse than I normally would and I'm assuming my prostate has enlarged somewhat as pissing is much more difficult. My PSA is fine though as is prolactin. Also just my arms itch at night for some reason (due to high hematocrit).



FT - 12.9
E2 - 25.4
SHBG - 45.7

Assuming you'll be scheduling a double red blood donation to help with hematocrit? Also start drinking grapefruit juice to get that naringin working to lower your hematocrit.

 

[eyeheartny]

Hi eyeheartny,

Thanks for your response.

It would be interesting to see your next labs in regards to your protocol. It would be great for us to have a look, if your willing to share.

On the topic of your protocol dosages, it's exactly what I thought it would be. I agree with Gman, generally speaking physicians are seeing good results using a 1.1 ratio with testosterone being a roughly 5-10% higher than nandrolone. You may be interested in looking into Dr. Edward Lichten. He uses a similar protocol in terms of dosing schedule, but combines with a DHT derived steroid for the use of lowering SHBG to increase free testosterone, but also to complete with DHT receptors.

"Men are prescribed parenteral testosterone in dosages of 80 to 120 mg intramuscularly (IM) per week. The dosage may be doubled in severe cases. Implanted testosterone pellet dosages are 600 to 800 mg every 8 to 12 weeks. To this, nandrolone 40 mg IM once or twice per week and stanozolol 10 to 25 mg per week IM are added. If needed, oxandrolone 2.5 to 10 mg daily is added to the men. For the most severe cases that were not responsive to purely anabolic therapy, human growth hormone at 0.1 mg subcutaneously was added daily."

I will absolutely share bloodwork when I have it. The only reason I am not posting prior ones is that I think it will confuse the conversation. I do have some labs for comparison when I was doing the propionate injections but will wait to post them as a before/after with the nandrolone experiment tests.

I'm familiar with Lichten's approach. My SHBG tends to be on the low side so I do not see a reason to add a DHT derivative at this time. I also don't want to add GH as my IGF-1 runs high on test only (15-50% over the top of the range) and I've had a history of cancer. I had a full workup including a pituitary MRI and CT to look at why my IGF-1 is elevated, including an oral glucose tolerance test. Nothing showed up on the MRI and the OGTT tested normal-- no diabetes and no GH-secreting tumor on the pituitary or elsewhere in the body since my GH levels were undetectable after the glucose ingestion.

 

[Paul M]

Assuming you'll be scheduling a double red blood donation to help with hematocrit? Also start drinking grapefruit juice to get that naringin working to lower your hematocrit.

Not too bothered with my hematocrit, especially as I've cut my dose right down now. I can't possibly stay at such high T levels. I've also been eating one grapefruit per day for the last year or so.

 

[eyeheartny]

Not too bothered with my hematocrit, especially as I've cut my dose right down now. I can't possibly stay at such high T levels. I've also been eating one grapefruit per day for the last year or so.

Got it. The key question is whether you are in fact at such high T levels. Did you confirm whether you did the LC/MS method or the one that is less able to discern the difference between testosterone and nandrolone?

 

[Paul M]

Hmmm, so my T levels may not be as high as stated? That would make sense as such a small amount of nandrolone would surely not quadruple my earlier T levels. I'm sure it wouldn't have been the LC/MS method in the UK.