Deca (nandrolone) added to trt and wow!!

[SilverSurfer]

Of what health risks are you talking about?

Not only what Paul said above, but I don’t want to have sky high cholesterol / triglycerides or vastly elevated hemocrit. I’m 50 years old so don’t want to jeopardize my health at all. I’m sure I’m fine taking 250 mg per week short term but I’m verifying that fact via bloodwork.

 

[Gman86]

Not only what Paul said above, but I don’t want to have sky high cholesterol / triglycerides or vastly elevated hemocrit. I’m 50 years old so don’t want to jeopardize my health at all. I’m sure I’m fine taking 250 mg per week short term but I’m verifying that fact via bloodwork.

Thanks for doing this experiment, and can’t wait to see your bloodwork results. Even if labs come back not ideal, I wouldn’t get rid of the deca completely. All I would do is continue with it but at a much lower dose. 50-75mg/ week would be ideal to run indefinitely. 100mg/ week tops. Here’s a couple great videos discussing the benefits of deca.

 

[ERO]

What did you ask them to go on it for? And what was their response?

I asked for a low dose - like 100mg a week - for joint pain. The reply was (and I am paraphrasing, so please bear that in mind) that I would need to have x-rays proving some specific type of injuries before they could prescribe it.

 

[Gman86]

I asked for a low dose - like 100mg a week - for joint pain. The reply was (and I am paraphrasing, so please bear that in mind) that I would need to have x-rays proving some specific type of injuries before they could prescribe it.

Awesome, thanks so much for the reply. Very helpful. I’ll find out soon if they’ve changed their views at all over the past 2 years.

 

[madman]

Not only what Paul said above, but I don’t want to have sky high cholesterol / triglycerides or vastly elevated hemocrit. I’m 50 years old so don’t want to jeopardize my health at all. I’m sure I’m fine taking 250 mg per week short term but I’m verifying that fact via bloodwork.

At such dose there is a strong chance that it will lower your HDL let alone increase your hemoglobin/hematocrit as this can be common when using doses as low as 100 mg/week.

Again 50-100 mg/week is the dose prescribed for joint issues.

Higher doses are in no way needed and the only reason to use doses in the 200+ mg/week range would be to increase muscle mass.....period!

People need to understand that Nelson used such dose 200 mg/week combined with trt to treat muscle wasting because he has a legitimate medical reason.

Although nandrolone use can have beneficial effects in treating joint issues it is used primarily in the treatment of anemias and wasting syndromes, as well as osteoporosis in menopausal women.

Most with chronic arthritic conditions could benefit from nandrolone use.

Sad fact of the matter is although it can aid in alleviating joint pain.....you now have everyone and their brother wanting to jump on the nandrolone bandwagon when in many cases a lot of these same men are hammering their joint/ligaments in the gym using heavy weights and complaining of suffering from joint issues.....go figure!

Regardless if one wants to prolong their training/minimize damage than training sensibly is what is needed.....not jumping on nandrolone to mask the pain/inflammation yet to keep on hammering their joint/ligaments in the gym.

It is called aging and wear/tear and regardless of adding nandrolone to the trt regime the wear/tear is going to still happen.

@Gman86.....you are only 34 years old....."I ask because I’m with defy as well, and plan on asking them during my next consultation to go on nandrolone to help with some clicking and sore shoulders."


LOL.....clicking and sore shoulders.....seriously?

Now you want to jump on nandrolone.....you are a mess!

First you have been going on for ages about high SHBG and having to run extremely high TT numbers.....yet you are still clueless when it comes to SHBG:T binding and should very well know by now that running extremely high TT levels are not needed to achieve a healthy FT in men with high SHBG.

Than you were ranting and raving about your beloved Dr and the scrotal cream protocol like it is the end all be all.....how did that work out for you.....back to injections I see.

Now you want to jump on nandrolone touting it as a miracle cure!

You have been chasing your tail since you have been on the forum.....you have no idea whether you are coming or going.....what is the latest youtube video!

No wonder your a mess.....OCD at it's finest.....damn you are gullible to say the least!

 

[madman]

I asked for a low dose - like 100mg a week - for joint pain. The reply was (and I am paraphrasing, so please bear that in mind) that I would need to have x-rays proving some specific type of injuries before they could prescribe it.

Unfortunately too many seem to think being prescribed nandrolone is a free for all!

 

[Gman86]

At such dose there is a strong chance that it will lower your HDL let alone increase your hemoglobin/hematocrit as this can be common when using doses as low as 100 mg/week.

Again 50-100 mg/week is the dose prescribed for joint issues.

Higher doses are in no way needed and the only reason to use doses in the 200+ mg/week range would be to increase muscle mass.....period!

People need to understand that Nelson used such dose 200 mg/week combined with trt to treat muscle wasting because he has a legitimate medical reason.

Although nandrolone use can have beneficial effects in treating joint issues it is used primarily in the treatment of anemias and wasting syndromes, as well as osteoporosis in menopausal women.

Most with chronic arthritic conditions could benefit from nandrolone use.

Sad fact of the matter is although it can aid in alleviating joint pain.....you now have everyone and their brother wanting to jump on the nandrolone bandwagon when in many cases a lot of these same men are hammering their joint/ligaments in the gym using heavy weights and complaining of suffering from joint issues.....go figure!

Regardless if one wants to prolong their training/minimize damage than training sensibly is what is needed.....not jumping on nandrolone to mask the pain/inflammation yet to keep on hammering their joint/ligaments in the gym.

It is called aging and wear/tear and regardless of adding nandrolone to the trt regime the wear/tear is going to still happen.

@Gman86.....you are only 34 years old....."I ask because I’m with defy as well, and plan on asking them during my next consultation to go on nandrolone to help with some clicking and sore shoulders."


LOL.....clicking and sore shoulders.....seriously?

Now you want to jump on nandrolone.....you are a mess!

First you have been going on for ages about high SHBG and having to run extremely high TT numbers.....yet you are still clueless when it comes to SHBG:T binding and should very well know by now that running extremely high TT levels are not needed to achieve a healthy FT in men with high SHBG.

Than you were ranting and raving about your beloved Dr and the scrotal cream protocol like it is the end all be all.....how did that work out for you.....back to injections I see.

Now you want to jump on nandrolone touting it as a miracle cure!

You have been chasing your tail since you have been on the forum.....you have no idea whether you are coming or going.....what is the latest youtube video!

No wonder your a mess.....OCD at it's finest.....damn you are gullible to say the least!

omg u crack me up madman lol. Like I’ve told u a million times, I feel great other than some brain fog, which is related to mold, not HRT. The reason I change things up so often is because I like to experiment and see what works and what doesn’t. I like to try all these different things out to be able to help others when they have questions. The cream has worked pretty well. Numbers are great, mood is great, libido is pretty good, erections are good, morning wood everyday. Libido is a little lower than on injections, and joints feel a tiny bit sore. I’m thinking I need more E2, but other that those two things, creams have worked very well. Only reason I’m switching back to injections is because I’m having my first child next month, and don’t want to risk transference.

Just because you’re an extremely judgmental person, and don’t have the ability to put yourself in anyone else’s shoes or understand other men here, doesn’t mean what I’m doing, or what they’re doing is wrong. Just because u don’t agree with other people’s decisions, doesn’t make them incorrect.

Give me one good reason why adding low dose nandrolone at 50mg/ week would be a bad idea? I’ve had clicking and sore shoulders for 6-7 years now. I also have nagging right wrist soreness, that causes some pain when putting downward pressure on it. Just give me one, not even two or three, just one good reason that nandrolone at 50mg/ week would be a bad idea. I’ll wait.

It’s called optimization. Some men just want to be on testosterone only, and go on with their lives. Which I respect. I think that’s a great and simple mindset to have. Me on the other hand, I’m in this to optimize myself as much as I can. And as new things come out, I want to try them to try and optimize myself as much as I can, based on the current information that’s out there. I also am using CJC-1295 + Ipamorelin to boost growth hormone levels. I’m sure you disagree with using peptides, just like you disagree with using nandrolone. If you had the ability to put urself in someone else’s shoes, you would realize that some men want to optimize, and some men want to just feel better. I respect both, and am here to help both on whichever journey they are on. It’s called understanding other human beings. You should try it sometime. Makes you feel pretty good, instead of yelling at everyone on here and making them feel like idiots and driving people away.

 

[madman]

omg u crack me up madman lol. Like I’ve told u a million times, I feel great other than some brain fog, which is related to mold, not HRT. The reason I change things up so often is because I like to experiment and see what works and what doesn’t. I like to try all these different things out to be able to help others when they have questions.


Bull****.....we can bring up your endless posts on here where you clearly state you have had issues with your various protocols.

Never ending with you.....this doctor says this.....that doctor says that.....years on trt and you have not been able to achieve a consistent protocol.

This is coming from a guy who feels he needs to run a TT 1800 to feel good.....high SHBG right LOL.

Remember your post from last Sunday where you stated....."You have Keith Nichols who likes to primarily use creams, and keep free T levels in the 30-50 range, which consequently requires total T in the 1500-2000 range for most guys, and doesn’t use ai’s.

Hate to bust your bubble again here but most guys would never need a TT 1500+.....let alone 2000 ng/dL to achieve a FT of 50 nmol/L.....a man with a very high SHBG of 70 nmol/L would only need to hit a TT of 1500 ng/dL to achieve a FT of 50 ng/dL.

You lie out your ass on here.....you are going to sit here and tell me....."The cream has worked pretty well. Numbers are great, mood is great, libido is pretty good, erections are good, morning wood everyday. Libido is a little lower than on injections, and joints feel a tiny bit sore. I’m thinking I need more E2, but other that those two things, creams have worked very well"



Yet you stated in a previous thread when you replied to wondering:

wondering said:
Your thyroid looks a little low. That said TRT has done zero for me. Thyroid same. Pt141 nothing. Viagra nothing. Daily cialis almost nothing. 3 days of supplemental scrotal tcream...better mood, but nothing if not worse sexually. Been like this for 23 years. This isn't living. Started dating a smoking hot woman. Last week in bed for first time and no response. Not sure how patient she will be.

You replied....."Interesting with the cream and decreased libido/erections, but improved mood. I’m experiencing the same. My mood seems a little better than on injections, but sexual function is a little down. What was your TRT protocol(s) on injections?"

If you want to back track here I can bring up numerous post where you contradict what you say!

Be careful what you say on here as some of the advice you give is piss poor

"Give me one good reason why adding low dose nandrolone at 50mg/ week would be a bad idea? I’ve had clicking and sore shoulders for 6-7 years now. I also have nagging right wrist soreness, that causes some pain when putting downward pressure on it. Just give me one, not even two or three, just one good reason that nandrolone at 50mg/ week would be a bad idea. I’ll wait"

Where did I state that adding low dose nandrolone is a bad idea?

Clicking and sore shoulders and now you want to jump on it!

What were you 135 lbs soaking wet before you jumped on trt.....thinking you needed to run a TT 1800 ng/dL to benefit from trt and add to the fact that you felt such levels benefited you in the gym.....either you had a piss poor diet or horrible genetics to begin with.

Better yet post up some pics so I can see whom I am addressing.....instead of hiding behind that avatar!

 

[Gman86]

omg u crack me up madman lol. Like I’ve told u a million times, I feel great other than some brain fog, which is related to mold, not HRT. The reason I change things up so often is because I like to experiment and see what works and what doesn’t. I like to try all these different things out to be able to help others when they have questions.


Bull****.....we can bring up your endless posts on here where you clearly state you have had issues with your various protocols.

Never ending with you.....this doctor says this.....that doctor says that.....years on trt and you have not been able to achieve a consistent protocol.

This is coming from a guy who feels he needs to run a TT 1800 to feel good.....high SHBG right LOL.

Remember your post from last Sunday where you stated....."You have Keith Nichols who likes to primarily use creams, and keep free T levels in the 30-50 range, which consequently requires total T in the 1500-2000 range for most guys, and doesn’t use ai’s.

Hate to bust your bubble again here but most guys would never need a TT 1500+.....let alone 2000 ng/dL to achieve a FT of 50 nmol/L.....a man with a very high SHBG of 70 nmol/L would only need to hit a TT of 1500 ng/dL to achieve a FT of 50 ng/dL.

You lie out your ass on here.....you are going to sit here and tell me....."The cream has worked pretty well. Numbers are great, mood is great, libido is pretty good, erections are good, morning wood everyday. Libido is a little lower than on injections, and joints feel a tiny bit sore. I’m thinking I need more E2, but other that those two things, creams have worked very well"



Yet you stated in a previous thread when you replied to wondering:

wondering said:
Your thyroid looks a little low. That said TRT has done zero for me. Thyroid same. Pt141 nothing. Viagra nothing. Daily cialis almost nothing. 3 days of supplemental scrotal tcream...better mood, but nothing if not worse sexually. Been like this for 23 years. This isn't living. Started dating a smoking hot woman. Last week in bed for first time and no response. Not sure how patient she will be.

You replied....."Interesting with the cream and decreased libido/erections, but improved mood. I’m experiencing the same. My mood seems a little better than on injections, but sexual function is a little down. What was your TRT protocol(s) on injections?"

If you want to back track here I can bring up numerous post where you contradict what you say!

Be careful what you say on here as some of the advice you give is piss poor

"Give me one good reason why adding low dose nandrolone at 50mg/ week would be a bad idea? I’ve had clicking and sore shoulders for 6-7 years now. I also have nagging right wrist soreness, that causes some pain when putting downward pressure on it. Just give me one, not even two or three, just one good reason that nandrolone at 50mg/ week would be a bad idea. I’ll wait"

Where did I state that adding low dose nandrolone is a bad idea?

Clicking and sore shoulders and now you want to jump on it!

What were you 135 lbs soaking wet before you jumped on trt.....thinking you needed to run a TT 1800 ng/dL to benefit from trt and add to the fact that you felt such levels benefited you in the gym.....either you had a piss poor diet or horrible genetics to begin with.

Better yet post up some pics so I can see whom I am addressing.....instead of hiding behind that avatar!

See, you just proved my point. U don’t understand how to communicate with other humans. Why would you judge someone on things they can’t change. That’s like judging someone for being gay, or being a small person, or being black. All you are is an insensitive narcissist that that thinks there’s no other way to do HRT other than the way you do it. As HRT continues to progress, you’re just going to get left behind and be irrelevant. Imo, you’re already irrelevant due to your inability to understand new methods of HRT. Plus the fact that you don’t understand that all SHBG isn’t created equal.

You can bring up all the posts you want. I’m as honest and straight forward as they come. Libido and erections were down a little bit when I wrote that. Currently, libido is a little improved, and erections are just about as good as they were on injections. Libido is still a little lower tho compared to injections. Other than that, the cream has been a good experience. Why is trying different protocols a bad thing? You’d rather me just stay on one protocol the whole time and only have knowledge on one protocol to share and help others? That’s all you do, and frankly it’s boring as hell, and nobody ever reads your copy and paste posts/ reply’s that are pages long, sorry to break it to you. Everyone just scrolls past them.

I’ve been into health/ longevity since I was 14. Think I know what I’m doing in regards to health and wellness. Not sure what a picture is gonna do, but here you go.

 

[madman]

See, you just proved my point. U don’t understand how to communicate with other humans. Why would you judge someone on things they can’t change. That’s like judging someone for being gay, or being a small person, or being black. All you are is an insensitive narcissist that that thinks there’s no other way to do HRT other than the way you do it. As HRT continues to progress, you’re just going to get left behind and be irrelevant. Imo, you’re already irrelevant due to your inability to understand new methods of HRT. Plus the fact that you don’t understand that all SHBG isn’t created equal.

You can bring up all the posts you want. I’m as honest and straight forward as they come. Libido and erections were down a little bit when I wrote that. Currently, libido is a little improved, and erections are just about as good as they were on injections. Libido is still a little lower tho compared to injections. Other than that, the cream has been a good experience. Why is trying different protocols a bad thing? You’d rather me just stay on one protocol the whole time and only have knowledge on one protocol to share and help others? That’s all you do, and frankly it’s boring as hell, and nobody ever reads your copy and paste posts/ reply’s that are pages long, sorry to break it to you. Everyone just scrolls past them.

I’ve been into health/ longevity since I was 14. Think I know what I’m doing in regards to health and wellness. Not sure what a picture is gonna do, but here you go.

That’s like judging someone for being gay, or being a small person, or being black.

- little extreme here.....we are talking about building muscle here

All you are is an insensitive narcissist that that thinks there’s no other way to do HRT other than the way you do it.

- so you say

Plus the fact that you don’t understand that all SHBG isn’t created equal.

- enlighten me on such

You can bring up all the posts you want. I’m as honest and straight forward as they come.

- yet you persist to contradict yourself on here again and again

Why is trying different protocols a bad thing? You’d rather me just stay on one protocol the whole time and only have knowledge on one protocol to share and help others?

- absolutely nothing wrong with trying different protocols to findwhat work best for the individual.....your a mess and seem to be chasing your tail.....never ending merry go round they say

That’s all you do, and frankly it’s boring as hell, and nobody ever reads your copy and paste posts/ reply’s that are pages long, sorry to break it to you. Everyone just scrolls past them.

- boo hoo

I’ve been into health/ longevity since I was 14. Think I know what I’m doing in regards to health and wellness.

- as you would say....."like obviously"....."like ya"

All you do on here is jump from one nutsack to the other.....and you just proved my point.....you are one of those weasely backstabbers on here!

 

[Gman86]

That’s like judging someone for being gay, or being a small person, or being black.

- little extreme here.....we are talking about building muscle here

All you are is an insensitive narcissist that that thinks there’s no other way to do HRT other than the way you do it.

- so you say

Plus the fact that you don’t understand that all SHBG isn’t created equal.

- enlighten me on such

You can bring up all the posts you want. I’m as honest and straight forward as they come.

- yet you persist to contradict yourself on here again and again

Why is trying different protocols a bad thing? You’d rather me just stay on one protocol the whole time and only have knowledge on one protocol to share and help others?

- absolutely nothing wrong with trying different protocols to findwhat work best for the individual.....your a mess and seem to be chasing your tail.....never ending merry go round they say

That’s all you do, and frankly it’s boring as hell, and nobody ever reads your copy and paste posts/ reply’s that are pages long, sorry to break it to you. Everyone just scrolls past them.

- boo hoo

I’ve been into health/ longevity since I was 14. Think I know what I’m doing in regards to health and wellness.

- as you would say....."like obviously"....."like ya"

All you do on here is jump from one nutsack to the other.....and you just proved my point.....you are one of those weasely backstabbers on here!

Good luck dude. U must be a peach to be around. I don’t understand how experimenting and trying different protocols is chasing my tail. I’m a young guy that’s into optimization and longevity. Ur a dinosaur that doesn’t continue learning and thinks the only way to be optimized is to use a low to moderate amount of testosterone and not let your free T get too “high” and attacks anyone that offers any other way to get optimized. We just have to agree to disagree.

 

[madman]

Good luck dude. U must be a peach to be around. I don’t understand how experimenting and trying different protocols is chasing my tail. I’m a young guy that’s into optimization and longevity. Ur a dinosaur that doesn’t continue learning and thinks the only way to be optimized is to use a low to moderate amount of testosterone and not let your free T get too “high” and attacks anyone that offers any other way to get optimized. We just have to agree to disagree.

Convince yourself such.


You are lost on this one when you stated "Plus the fact that you don’t understand that all SHBG isn’t created equal"

Clueless you are:

*The current algorithm and the experimental data reported here were generated using wild type SHBG which is present in nearly 98% of Caucasians. Genome wide association studies have revealed several SHBG polymorphisms, two of which have been reported to affect testosterone binding to SHBG (28).

So let me guess.....you are one of those that fall in the 2%.....get the f*** outta here!

 

[Gman86]

Convince yourself such.


You are lost on this one when you stated "Plus the fact that you don’t understand that all SHBG isn’t created equal"

Clueless you are:

*The current algorithm and the experimental data reported here were generated using wild type SHBG which is present in nearly 98% of Caucasians. Genome wide association studies have revealed several SHBG polymorphisms, two of which have been reported to affect testosterone binding to SHBG (28).

So let me guess.....you are one of those that fall in the 2%.....get the f*** outta here!

How do you explain the fact that I had the exact same total T as another guy, same exact SHBG as him, he actually had a higher albumin level, we both used quest diagnostics to get our blood drawn, and yet his free T was about double mine?

Also, how do you explain the studies done on magnesium and SHBG, that show that magnesium doesn’t lower SHBG, but increases bioavailable T?

What about Dr. Lichten who says that nandrolone doesn’t lower SHBG, but binds to SHBG, and consequently free’s up more free T. You’re saying that you know more than a well known doctor in the field of hormone therapy? You and you’re ridiculous Tru-T calculator that pumps out results based off of 2 labs. It will never work and/or apply to HRT because SHBG isn’t just a number. Two men with total testosterone levels of 1000, and identical SHBG levels can have two completely different levels of free T. Prior to TRT, I had my labs tested twice, and both times my free T was bottom of the barrel, and I had all the symptoms to match. Yet the tru T calculator had me at 22.44. Which one do you think was accurate, the tests that match the symptoms, or the calculator results that is supposedly “the best”? Nobody’s gonna use ur stupid calculator because it doesn’t match up with symptoms. So who’s spreading poor information now? All your advice is theoretical. In the real world, theory only goes so far.

 

[madman]

How do you explain the fact that I had the exact same total T as another guy, same exact SHBG as him, he actually had a higher albumin level, we both used quest diagnostics to get our blood drawn, and yet his free T was about double mine?

Also, how do you explain the studies done on magnesium and SHBG, that show that magnesium doesn’t lower SHBG, but increases bioavailable T?

What about Dr. Lichten who says that nandrolone doesn’t lower SHBG, but binds to SHBG, and consequently free’s up more free T. You’re saying that you know more than a well known doctor in the field of hormone therapy? You and you’re ridiculous Tru-T calculator that pumps out results based off of 2 labs. It will never work and/or apply to HRT because SHBG isn’t just a number. Two men with total testosterone levels of 1000, and identical SHBG levels can have two completely different levels of free T. Prior to TRT, I had my labs tested twice, and both times my free T was bottom of the barrel, and I had all the symptoms to match. Yet the tru T calculator had me at 22.44. Which one do you think was accurate, the tests that match the symptoms, or the calculator results that is supposedly “the best”? Nobody’s gonna use ur stupid calculator because it doesn’t match up with symptoms. So who’s spreading poor information now? All your advice is theoretical. In the real world, theory only goes so far.

How do you explain the fact that I had the exact same total T as another guy, same exact SHBG as him, he actually had a higher albumin level, we both used quest diagnostics to get our blood drawn, and yet his free T was about double mine?

- are you slow or just plain stupid?..... inaccurate testing methods whether using the direct immunoassay or the linear law-of-mass action calculated Vermeulen.

Again if you doubt the TruT calculated method than get back to me when you finally have your FT tested using an accurate testing method..... Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiiltration.

How many times does this need to be repeated.


What about Dr. Lichten who says that nandrolone doesn’t lower SHBG, but binds to SHBG, and consequently free’s up more free T.

- proviron, danazol, stanozolol, oxandrolone all have an effect on SHBG.....what is your point

You’re saying that you know more than a well known doctor in the field of hormone therapy?

- never stated such

You and you’re ridiculous Tru-T calculator that pumps out results based off of 2 labs. It will never work and/or apply to HRT because SHBG isn’t just a number. Two men with total testosterone levels of 1000, and identical SHBG levels can have two completely different levels of free T.

A simpleton you are!

You clearly have no clue on the newer research regarding SHBG:T binding.

You are an idiot to state such as three heavy weights in the field are behind the invention of TruT.

Ravi Jasuja, Shalender Bhasin and Mikhail N Zakharov.




ABSTRACT

- the measurement of testosterone(T) levels is central to the diagnosis of androgen disorders, such as hypogonadism in men and polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) in women

- circulating t is bound with high affinity to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and with substantially lower affinity to albumin; only the free fraction is biologically active

- conditions that affect SHBG concentrations, such as aging and obesity, alter total T but not free T concentrations; in these conditions, the determination of free t is necessary to obtain an accurate assessment of androgen status

- tracer analog method, the most widely used method for free T, has been shown to be inaccurate

- equilibrium dialysis method is, technically difficult to implement and standardize, and is not available in most hospital laboratories, leading the Endocrine Society's Expert Panel to conclude that?? the calculation of free testosterone is the most useful estimate of free testosterone in plasma??

- therefore, there is an unmet need for algorithms that provide accurate estimates of free T that match those derived from equilibrium dialysis

- we have designed a novel and accurate TruTTM algorithm for the determination of free T, based on the characterization of testosterones binding to SHBG using modern biophysical techniques

- we have discovered that testosterone's binding to SHBG is a dynamic multistep process that includes allosteric interaction between the two binding sites on an SHBG dimer

- our computational frame-work incorporates the correct binding parameters derived experimentally in these studies, the non-linear dynamics in T:SHBG association, and allsotery

- in phase I studies , we demonstrated that TruTTM algorithm provides accurate free T values that match those obtained using the equilibrium dialysis in healthy and hypogonadal men

- we have also shown that the binding parameters that have formed the basis of previous equations (e.g., Vermeulen) are incorrect, and that free T values derived using these equations deviate substantially from free T measured by equilibrium dialysis

- the phase I studies have led to adoption of the TruTTM algorithm at several institutions

- the phase II program will continue the development of the TruTTM algorithm by validating it in common conditions characterized by altered SHBG concentration, such as obesity and aging (AIM 1), in healthy women across the menstrual cycle, and in women with PCOS (AIM 2)

- we will generate population-based reference ranges for free T (AIM 3)

- phase II also includes plans for commercialization of the TruTTM algorithm using a HIPAA compliant infrastructure for its clinical adoption

-the phase II program will provide validation of TruTTM algorithm in the two most common clinical indications for free T measurement? men suspected of hypogonadism and altered SHBG levels, and women with hyperandrogenic disorders

- it will also enable the development of a HIPAA compliant platform that can be embedded into electronic medical record for wider clinical adoption and for improving clinical care


Key points:

* - in phase I studies , we demonstrated that TruTTM algorithm provides accurate free T values that match those obtained using the equilibrium dialysis in healthy and hypogonadal men

- the phase II program will continue the development of the TruTTM algorithm by validating it in common conditions characterized by altered SHBG concentration, such as obesity and aging (AIM 1), in healthy women across the menstrual cycle, and in women with PCOS (AIM 2)

- we will generate population-based reference ranges for free T (AIM 3)

- phase II also includes plans for commercialization of the TruTTM algorithm using a HIPAA compliant infrastructure for its clinical adoption








From what I understand Phase II is almost done and it is just a matter of time before....."commercialization of the TruTTM algorithm using a HIPAA compliant infrastructure for its clinical adoption"

I have already given everyone a heads up on what is coming and again if anyone is doubting the validity of the TruT algorithm than at least have the sense to use an accurate testing method such as the gold standard ED or Ultrafiltration before ranting and raving about where your FT level sits.

As they say stupid is as stupid does!


Prior to TRT, I had my labs tested twice, and both times my free T was bottom of the barrel, and I had all the symptoms to match. Yet the tru T calculator had me at 22.44. Which one do you think was accurate, the tests that match the symptoms, or the calculator results that is supposedly “the best”? Nobody’s gonna use ur stupid calculator because it doesn’t match up with symptoms. So who’s spreading poor information now? All your advice is theoretical. In the real world, theory only goes so far.

This was all explained to you numerous times yet you are still in denial.....you sound like a scorn child to say the least!

 

[madman]

How the CDC Clinical Standardization Programs Are Improving Hormone Tests




Congress Funds AACC-Led Harmonization Initiative - AACC.org

The $1.3 trillion omnibus spending bill passed by Congress in March will fund efforts to harmonize laboratory tests, the culmination of more than a decade of AACC advocacy efforts. AACC worked closely with Rep. Kevin Yoder (R-Kan.) and other lawmakers, as well as a partnership of 17 clinical associations. The bill provides $2 million to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The agency plans to use the new funding for materials and monitoring that will enable harmonization of tests for free testosterone, thyroid stimulating hormone, and estrogen.



Key point being:

* The agency plans to use the new funding for materials and monitoring that will enable harmonization of tests for free testosterone,

@Gman86
The commercialization of the TruT platform is going to be is going to be a huge part of this.....you f***ing IDIOT!

 

[Gman86]

How the CDC Clinical Standardization Programs Are Improving Hormone Tests




Congress Funds AACC-Led Harmonization Initiative - AACC.org

The $1.3 trillion omnibus spending bill passed by Congress in March will fund efforts to harmonize laboratory tests, the culmination of more than a decade of AACC advocacy efforts. AACC worked closely with Rep. Kevin Yoder (R-Kan.) and other lawmakers, as well as a partnership of 17 clinical associations. The bill provides $2 million to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The agency plans to use the new funding for materials and monitoring that will enable harmonization of tests for free testosterone, thyroid stimulating hormone, and estrogen.



Key point being:

* The agency plans to use the new funding for materials and monitoring that will enable harmonization of tests for free testosterone,

@Gman86
The commercialization of the TruT platform is going to be is going to be a huge part of this.....you f***ing IDIOT!

Oh great, so they’re going to use a testing method that doesn’t match up with symptoms? Very smart.

All those compounds lower SHBG, I’m talking about things that decrease binding affinity, like deca. If there’s things that decrease binding affinity, that means that everyone that has a SHBG of 30, is going to have different free T levels, even with the same total T, due to everyone’s SHBG binding at different rates. You’ll never understand this because you’re too caught up in studies, instead of what actually happens in the real world.

And you’re clearly saying that you are smarter than dr Lichten when you state that there’s no such thing as someone’s SHBG binding more or less to testosterone, even at the same level, when he’s saying that deca, for example, can decrease SHBG’s binding affinity without actually lowering the number. Have fun spreading false information to everyone on here and telling every guy that SHBG is just a number. No formula is going to accurately tell you your free T level based of of a total T and SHBG. You’re never going to get it, and I feel bad for guys that listen to you and continue to be symptomatic just because you tell them their free T is “in range”.

 

[gaz7718]

Sad fact of the matter is although it can aid in alleviating joint pain.....you now have everyone and their brother wanting to jump on the nandrolone bandwagon when in many cases a lot of these same men are hammering their joint/ligaments in the gym using heavy weights and complaining of suffering from joint issues.....go figure!

Regardless if one wants to prolong their training/minimize damage than training sensibly is what is needed.....not jumping on nandrolone to mask the pain/inflammation yet to keep on hammering their joint/ligaments in the gym.

It is called aging and wear/tear and regardless of adding nandrolone to the trt regime the wear/tear is going to still happen.

This is such a frank and true assessment. 36 years of regular weight training and I am managing joint issues, shoulder, elbows, knees. All the usual culprits. It comes down to getting sensible and training to prolong your physical health, your hobbies and general sense of being a man and not an aging guy who worries about getting up from a kneeling position, getting their shirt on or carry shopping bags.

Look on Instagram and it’s full of younger generations who just don’t get this stuff. 5 years from now they would have given up due to boredom or the onset of niggly injuries that they fail or cannot be bothered to manage.

The risk with the likes of deca is that it makes us feel young again and the temptation to hammer the weights returns.

All the time there’s wear and tear happening so we need to be kind to our bodies.

The idea of bands is excellent and something I’m sure I will start to migrate to so that I can continue the hobby that just keeps giving

 

[Gman86]

Ya these are all just tools. To glorify testosterone and shame anyone for wanting to use deca is like glorifying Tylenol and shaming someone for using Motrin. It’s almost 2020. Who cares what’s natural and not natural. Chemo isn’t natural. Anavar isn’t natural, but was originally used for burn victims. Are we supposed to shame burn victims for using it? Deca was originally used for women in the 1950’s to treat osteoporosis. Should we shame women back then for being on “steroids”? Small minds fear what they don’t know. Simply put. I’m all about optimization. You only live once. I’m going to try and feel and look as good as I can the whole time I’m alive. To not use certain tools because of what another man thinks, or a stigma behind certain things, is just foolish. As long as you’re not doing anything illegal, and risking your freedom, I don’t see why there should be boundaries in regards to optimization.

 

[Gman86]

I don’t see how 50mg of deca/ week to lubricate joints and decrease inflammation is a negative. If you’re using too high of doses and feeling superhuman and are hammering the weights and causing more joint problems, that’s you being an idiot. Tools aren’t the problem. It’s the person using the tool. A hammer can kill someone. A fork can kill someone. Is it the fork that’s the problem? These are all just tools, that when used properly have benefits. When abused, and used to lift superhuman amounts of weights, yes, I’d say ur doing more harm than good. Using a small dose to lubricate joints and consequently maybe get a 5-10% increase in strength overtime using progressive overload is completely fine and healthy, imo. I don’t see anything wrong with it. It’s like saying guys shouldn’t go on TRT because it’s going to make them feel young and strong again, and it’s going to cause too much damage on their joints when working out. These ideas just sound foolish.

Keep things simple. Use all the tools at your disposal. Use everything in moderation.

 

[Cataceous]

...
All those compounds lower SHBG, I’m talking about things that decrease binding affinity, like deca. If there’s things that decrease binding affinity, that means that everyone that has a SHBG of 30, is going to have different free T levels, even with the same total T, due to everyone’s SHBG binding at different rates. You’ll never understand this because you’re too caught up in studies, instead of what actually happens in the real world.

And you’re clearly saying that you are smarter than dr Lichten when you state that there’s no such thing as someone’s SHBG binding more or less to testosterone, even at the same level, when he’s saying that deca, for example, can decrease SHBG’s binding affinity without actually lowering the number. ...

Is there any independent support for this concept, along with proposed mechanisms? And isn't the notion of variable SHBG binding affinity contradicted by the good agreement between Tru-T and the accurate free T tests?