Daily Sub Q TRT injection ?

[madman]

Can you explain the every 3.5 days? Lol. How do you figure a 1/2 day?

When injecting twice weekly (every 3.5 days) we would try our best to inject every 84 hrs.

I inject Tuesday morning at 9 am and Friday evening at 9 pm.

No need to be on the exact hour but try to keep injections spaced out evenly.

When I want to get labs done it would be Tuesday morning at 8 am just before my next injection.

 

[Tremonti22]

It wouldn't keep you at trough, but it would take time to build back up to a steady state. I vote for starting daily injections 3.5 days after the big injection. At half a week out serum testosterone should have fallen to close to its average value. With daily injections you're expecting to have little variation from the average value, so in theory this approach reduces the transition time.

That makes sense to me as well. I’m gonna go that route. Thanks for all your help bro. Also I did reach out to Lipshultz for an appointment. Although my worry is his website seems to imply that you have to come in for the shots. That’s not gonna work lol.

 

[madman]

Also sorry to keep bugging but I’m struggling with the logic of waiting until I’m trough to start every day 14mg subq. Wouldn’t that keep me at trough? It seems to me the best time to start that would be at peak or the next day after a 100mg injection. Of course you know more than I, but can you explain why I should do it at trough?

I stated earlier in post #9

Hard to say where your trough TT/FT levels sit on your current protocol (100 mg every 6 days) without labs but regardless you would be better off waiting until 7 days post-injection than switching over to injecting 14mg daily.

Highly doubtful you are going to crash come week's end.

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If you are dead set on going with dailies then no need to start the day after your 100 mg injection as your TT/FT levels will surely be high enough and if you want to wait 3.5 days then go nuts but even if you waited 7 days later highly doubtful your levels would be low enough to cause any issues.

You are still going to most likely experience ups/downs during the transition even when going to dailies as hormones will be in flux leading up until levels stabilize.

Sticking to the protocol and being consistent is key let alone giving it 2-3 months once levels stabilize.....mind you a tweak in dose may be needed at 6 weeks depending on where your TT/FT levels sit!

Get labs in 6 weeks and go from there.

 

[madman]

That makes sense to me as well. I’m gonna go that route. Thanks for all your help bro. Also I did reach out to Lipshultz for an appointment. Although my worry is his website seems to imply that you have to come in for the shots. That’s not gonna work lol.

Who are you replying to as I recommended Lipschultz in the other thread you started?

 

[Tremonti22]

I stated earlier in post #9

Hard to say where your trough TT/FT levels sit on your current protocol (100 mg every 6 days) without labs but regardless you would be better off waiting until 7 days post-injection than switching over to injecting 14mg daily.

Highly doubtful you are going to crash come week's end.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you are dead set on going with dailies then no need to start the day after your 100 mg injection as your TT/FT levels will surely be high enough and if you want to wait 3.5 days then go nuts but even if you waited 7 days later highly doubtful your levels would be low enough to cause any issues.

You are still going to most likely experience ups/downs during the transition even when going to dailies as hormones will be in flux leading up until levels stabilize.

Sticking to the protocol and being consistent is key let alone giving it 2-3 months once levels stabilize.....mind you a tweak in dose may be needed at 6 weeks depending on where your TT/FT levels sit!

Get labs in 6 weeks and go from

I stated earlier in post #9

Hard to say where your trough TT/FT levels sit on your current protocol (100 mg every 6 days) without labs but regardless you would be better off waiting until 7 days post-injection than switching over to injecting 14mg daily.

Highly doubtful you are going to crash come week's end.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you are dead set on going with dailies then no need to start the day after your 100 mg injection as your TT/FT levels will surely be high enough and if you want to wait 3.5 days then go nuts but even if you waited 7 days later highly doubtful your levels would be low enough to cause any issues.

You are still going to most likely experience ups/downs during the transition even when going to dailies as hormones will be in flux leading up until levels stabilize.

Sticking to the protocol and being consistent is key let alone giving it 2-3 months once levels stabilize.....mind you a tweak in dose may be needed at 6 weeks depending on where your TT/FT levels sit!

Get labs in 6 weeks and go from there.

Here’s a question I’ve always been curious about. If a healthy males testicles produce 7mg of test daily that would be 49mg weekly. Why are our doctors recommending 100mg etc? Is it because alien test isn’t as potent?

 

[Tremonti22]

Who are you replying to as I recommended Lipschultz in the other thread you started?

My bad

 

[madman]

Here’s a question I’ve always been curious about. If a healthy males testicles produce 7mg of test daily that would be 49mg weekly. Why are our doctors recommending 100mg etc? Is it because alien test isn’t as potent?

The average young healthy male produces 5-7 mg/day.

When using exogenous T many factors can come into play when it comes to what dose of T is needed to achieve a healthy FT level.

The dose T, SHBG level, injection frequency, the sensitivity of the AR, polymorphism of the AR, and CAG repeat length (long/short), bodyweight.

Read over all the replies:

Advice on low dose daily testosterone

Hello all, new member but have been reading on here for a while. I have been getting annual bloodwork done for quite some time, and my TT and FT have both been hovering in the low range for a few years... I'm 6'4" 270lbs (have a lifting background but definitely need to lose about 40lbs) and...

www.excelmale.com

 

[MarcoFL]

As you can clearly see on the previous protocol 160 mg (every 6 days) your TT/FT levels are very high and keep in mind your FT was testing using one of the most accurate assays Equilibrium Ultrafiltration (reference range 35-155 pg/mL).

Sorry if I missed something but is Tremonti's FT 438 on this scale of 35-155? if it is that high willl always be chasing it. My FT on this test is 155.8 on 14mg daily so I went to 12mg and will see how I feel. Sorry to bring this up but I could not see the range on his labs.

 

[Cataceous]

Here’s a question I’ve always been curious about. If a healthy males testicles produce 7mg of test daily that would be 49mg weekly. Why are our doctors recommending 100mg etc? Is it because alien test isn’t as potent?

First, the testosterone content of an ester such as T cypionate is only 70%. So your 49 mg T is contained in 49 / 0.7 = 70 mg T cypionate. Second, normal men have a diurnal variation in serum testosterone that peaks in the morning. These levels are what's typically measured, and are what guys on TRT usually aim for. But later in the day normal men see levels drop by 40% or so, whereas those on testosterone cypionate may see fairly constant levels over each day. A rough estimate is that this increases the testosterone requirement by 25%. So now you're up over 90 mg T cypionate, which is getting pretty close to the nominal 100 mg/week dose. Furthermore, if a guy is injecting only weekly then he must go higher still to make his troughs match the peaks of normal men.

The bottom line is that if you can dose your testosterone such that your serum levels approximate what's seen naturally then you'll find that the total amount of testosterone needed is comparable to what normal men produce. I do this by injecting a blend of testosterone enanthate and testosterone propionate daily. The total testosterone dose is only 4.4 mg per day, yet it's providing quite normal peak testosterone in the 600s ng/dL.

 

[madman]

Sorry if I missed something but is Tremonti's FT 438 on this scale of 35-155? if it is that high willl always be chasing it. My FT on this test is 155.8 on 14mg daily so I went to 12mg and will see how I feel. Sorry to bring this up but I could not see the range on his labs.

The reference range was cutoff 35.

His labs were done through Quest and the FT assay used was Equilibrium Dialysis.

I stated earlier it was Equilibrium Ultrafiltration (post#32) but meant Dialysis as the reference range is 35.0-155.0 pg/mL.

He is hitting 438.1 pg/mL well over the top end although we need to understand that reference ranges can be misleading due to what I state below:

Unfortunately, when it comes to the reference ranges for measured or calculated FT they vary between different labs, and as of now, there is no standardization let alone a harmonized reference range.

Efforts are underway to standardize the procedures for FT and to generate harmonized reference ranges.

*Labcorp FT assay (Equilibrium Dialysis) has a reference range of 52.0-280.0 pg/mL.


Keep in mind most men do well with FT in the 20-30ng/dL range and his FT is close to the mid-40s.

Those are his levels when he was on the previous protocol 160 mg T every 6 days.

He stated this was not true trough and labs were drawn 2-3 days later.

The best piece of advice is that he will need to be sensible when it comes to the weekly dose of T injected whether he chooses to remain on injecting once every 6 days or decides to try twice weekly (every 3.5 days) or daily which seems to be where he is going with this!

At least he is using accurate assays when it comes to testing which will make a big difference when looking at the bigger picture.

 

[S1W]

Also sorry to keep bugging but I’m struggling with the logic of waiting until I’m trough to start every day 14mg subq. Wouldn’t that keep me at trough? It seems to me the best time to start that would be at peak or the next day after a 100mg injection. Of course you know more than I, but can you explain why I should do it at trough?

Been following along and have a few thoughts:

- In the long term, it doesn’t really matter when you switch to dailies. Though like others, I think it’s best and makes most sense to do it whenever it would otherwise be time to inject on your current protocol (trough).

- I’ve had similar SHBG to yours...now lower. 50mg E3.5D seemed to provide too much swing and left me too low at trough.

- I’d be surprised if you didn’t successfully address HCT issues by switching to 14mg/day. E2 results can vary though.

- Get some 30g .3cc 5/16 EasyTouch syringes. They make accurately measuring the small amounts used in daily protocols easy, and the small needles make the frequent injections more comfortable.

- IMHO you’re probably going to feel better overall on this protocol. Stick with it, be consistent, and don’t get labs or mess with it til you’ve been on it for a while.

 

[madman]

Been following along and have a few thoughts:

- In the long term, it doesn’t really matter when you switch to dailies. Though like others, I think it’s best and makes most sense to do it whenever it would otherwise be time to inject on your current protocol (trough).

- I’ve had similar SHBG to yours...now lower. 50mg E3.5D seemed to provide too much swing and left me too low at trough.

- I’d be surprised if you didn’t successfully address HCT issues by switching to 14mg/day. E2 results can vary though.

- Get some 30g .3cc 5/16 EasyTouch syringes. They make accurately measuring the small amounts used in daily protocols easy, and the small needles make the frequent injections more comfortable.

- IMHO you’re probably going to feel better overall on this protocol. Stick with it, be consistent, and don’t get labs or mess with it til you’ve been on it for a while.

The only way for him or anyone to know where their trough TT/FT level truly sits on such protocol (50 mg every 3.5 days) is to have lab work done let alone using accurate assays.

Many men with SHBG higher than his (22 nmol/L) can easily hit a trough TT/FT level at or above the top end of the physiological range.

Me being one of them and my SHBG sits around 30-32 nmol/L.

 

[Blackhawk]

@Tremonti22, I scanned this tread but did not read it in its entirety. I'd just like to add/reinforce that changes in dose take time to adjust to.

And especially if you are reducing dose dramatically from 160-100/week; This can cause many men a living hell symptomatically for a few weeks. Your body is accustomed to 160/week and reduce by 1/3, you can expect withdrawal symptoms. I have been through this with multiple smaller decreases. as small as 2mg EOD. Typically the symptoms came on for me at about 2 weeks after the change and lasted for another month (however I had double your level of SHBG, so you may experience this faster). Expect it, and know if you feel bad and prematurely change something else, you will never know the actual end point from making a change.

 

[Tremonti22]

@Tremonti22, I scanned this tread but did not read it in its entirety. I'd just like to add/reinforce that changes in dose take time to adjust to.

And especially if you are reducing dose dramatically from 160-100/week; This can cause many men a living hell symptomatically for a few weeks. Your body is accustomed to 160/week and reduce by 1/3, you can expect withdrawal symptoms. I have been through this with multiple smaller decreases. as small as 2mg EOD. Typically the symptoms came on for me at about 2 weeks after the change and lasted for another month (however I had double your level of SHBG, so you may experience this faster). Expect it, and know if you feel bad and prematurely change something else, you will never know the actual end point from making a change.

I appreciate that bud. I’m debating whether to just continue the 100mg once a week or go to 14mg every day sub q, but I know for sure whatever I do I’ll stick to it and then check labs after 6 weeks

 

[Tman]

You have to realize, when you switch to daily dosing, your body is used to much higher testosterone in one shot. Feeling like crap for a week or so during the transition should be expected, as your body acclimates to the lower daily dose, as the initial drop will impact you. You can deal with a quick drop and the subsequent impacts or transition to twice weekly, then eod, then daily.

 

[Tremonti22]

Actually I’ve experienced the opposite. Been on dallies for the past week. Started Monday and I have never felt better on trt.
I am having trouble with the needle situation, I’m fairly thin . I’m using at 29guage 1/2” needle and I’m getting bruising. Seems as if the needle is to long. What is preferred needle size for subq for thin dudes?

 

[madman]

Actually I’ve experienced the opposite. Been on dallies for the past week. Started Monday and I have never felt better on trt.
I am having trouble with the needle situation, I’m fairly thin . I’m using at 29guage 1/2” needle and I’m getting bruising. Seems as if the needle is to long. What is preferred needle size for subq for thin dudes?

Should be no issues for most when using the 1/2" (12.7MM) length if you pinch the skin up before you stick the needle in.

If you find that does not work then try switching over to the 5/16" (8MM) or roughly 1/4" (6MM) needle length.

 

[Tremonti22]

Should be no issues for most when using the 1/2" (12.7MM) length if you pinch the skin up before you stick the needle in.

If you find that does not work then try switching over to the 5/16" (8MM) or roughly 1/4" (6MM) needle length.

Well sure enough felt great on the dallies for the first 4 days, now I feel terrible. Headache, dizzy, moody. Just don’t feel balanced. Sure wish I could get this dosage protocol down. I wonder why I felt so good on the daily injection right off the bat but then it went away. I often wonder if the test amps me up so much it causes me to feel bad.

 

[Cataceous]

Well sure enough felt great on the dallies for the first 4 days, now I feel terrible. Headache, dizzy, moody. Just don’t feel balanced. Sure wish I could get this dosage protocol down. I wonder why I felt so good on the daily injection right off the bat but then it went away. I often wonder if the test amps me up so much it causes me to feel bad.

Perhaps the drop in peak testosterone is starting to catch up with you? Some of @madman's best advice concerns how much time to give a significant protocol change; a fair evaluation may require months rather than weeks. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

 

[antelopers]

Perhaps the drop in peak testosterone is starting to catch up with you? Some of @madman's best advice concerns how much time to give a significant protocol change; a fair evaluation may require months rather than weeks. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Have to second this. Pretty much every protocol works for me in the first week. Long term is much more of a challenge.