Daily Sub Q TRT injection ?

[madman]

Wow brother I apologize if that came off rude. I was honestly asking if you were a doctor. I have read a lot of your posts and you seem really knowledgeable.
Truly sorry. I understand your point about switching from one extreme to the other. Question should I perhaps inject my 100mg for the week and then the next day start the low (14mg) every day subq injection? Wouldn’t this be a better option than waiting until I’m trough to start the ED Subq injections? Really want to switch to sub q, after 4 years of IM my ass is torn up lol. My basic labs / set up:

SHBG - 22 (on the lower side)

Test - 1500 ( on the high side) - was running 160mg week but because so high doc recently lowered to 100 week

E2 (LC “sensitive”) - 63

No apologies needed.

Hard to say where your trough TT/FT levels sit on your current protocol (100 mg every 6 days) without labs but regardless you would be better off waiting until 7 days post-injection than switching over to injecting 14mg daily.

Highly doubtful you are going to crash come week's end.

As you can see when you were injecting 160 mg/week your TT 1500 ng/dL was very high but more importantly if your FT was tested (which is critical) then it would have been very high as your SHBG is only 22 nmol/L.

Not sure when your labs were done but keep in mind that peak TT/FT/e2 will be highest at (8-12 hrs) post-injection/during the first few days.

When you switch over to the daily protocol be prepared to experience ups/downs during the transition as your hormones will be in flux during the weeks leading up until blood levels stabilize (4-6 weeks).

Get labs done to see where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has your true trough TT/FT/e2 levels let alone hemoglobin/hematocrit.

It is critical when testing to use the most accurate assays for TT/e2 (LC/MS-MS) and FT (Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration).

Many make the mistake of using inaccurate assays/calculated methods which can under/overestimate.

The only way to know where your FT truly sits is to have it tested using the most accurate assays such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best).

Even then as I have stated numerous times on the forum once blood levels stabilize it will take another 2-3 months for the body to adapt and this is the critical time period when one should truly gauge how they feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms.

Too many make the critical mistake of jumping the gun at the 4-6 week mark if they do not feel well not understanding that it will take the body time to adapt to those new levels.

These tend to be the same individuals that get caught up in that never-ending merry go round tweaking their protocol frequently only to end up endlessly searching for that so-called optimal protocol.

The most accurate assays for FT (ED/UF) can be purchased through Nelsons discounted labs.

Either assay will suffice!

1 Testosterone, Total and Free (NO Upper Limit) plus Hematocrit

2 Testosterone, Total, LC/MS and Free (Equilibrium Ultrafiltration)



Let us know how everything works out.

 

[Tremonti22]

No apologies needed.

Hard to say where your trough TT/FT levels sit on your current protocol (100 mg every 6 days) without labs but regardless you would be better off waiting until 7 days post-injection than switching over to injecting 14mg daily.

Highly doubtful you are going to crash come week's end.

As you can see when you were injecting 160 mg/week your TT 1500 ng/dL was very high but more importantly if your FT was tested (which is critical) then it would have been very high as your SHBG is only 22 nmol/L.

Not sure when your labs were done but keep in mind that peak TT/FT/e2 will be highest at (8-12 hrs) post-injection/during the first few days.

When you switch over to the daily protocol be prepared to experience ups/downs during the transition as your hormones will be in flux during the weeks leading up until blood levels stabilize (4-6 weeks).

Get labs done to see where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has your true trough TT/FT/e2 levels let alone hemoglobin/hematocrit.

It is critical when testing to use the most accurate assays for TT/e2 (LC/MS-MS) and FT (Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration).

Many make the mistake of using inaccurate assays/calculated methods which can under/overestimate.

The only way to know where your FT truly sits is to have it tested using the most accurate assays such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best).

Even then as I have stated numerous times on the forum once blood levels stabilize it will take another 2-3 months for the body to adapt and this is the critical time period when one should truly gauge how they feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms.

Too many make the critical mistake of jumping the gun at the 4-6 week mark if they do not feel well not understanding that it will take the body time to adapt to those new levels.

These tend to be the same individuals that get caught up in that never-ending merry go round tweaking their protocol frequently only to end up endlessly searching for that so-called optimal protocol.

The most accurate assays for FT (ED/UF) can be purchased through Nelsons discounted labs.

Either assay will suffice!

1 Testosterone, Total and Free (NO Upper Limit) plus Hematocrit

2 Testosterone, Total, LC/MS and Free (Equilibrium Ultrafiltration)


Let us know how everything works o

Thank you bud
I am in the merry go round category for sure. I’ve never really felt quite right since I’ve started this deal and it’s been 4 years lol. I will follow up with this and post my last labs. These labs are when I was taking 160mg injected once weekly every six days. Here’s what I know , I never feel “balanced” always cloudy headed, fatigued, depressed. Sex drive never an issue always ready lol. I know I am super sensitive to anastrazole and when I take even 1/2 a mg pill it will drop my E2 drastically. I’m just tired of messing with this, tired of feeling bad so I’m turning to this site for guidance. After these labs I switched to 100 mg injected once every 6 days. I did take 1/2 a pill of anastrazole to get the 63 E2 down. Perhaps at the new 100mg a week I’ll feel better but it’s already been 3 weeks and no change yet.

 

[Tremonti22]

Ok here are labs taken on 12-20-2020
Again these were at 160mg injected once a week (every 6 days) , cypionate, IM injection. No E2 / anastrazole taken.
Doc called and said to lower shots to 100mg weekly and gave me some anastrazole. The next week I started the 100mg and took 1/2 a 1mg pill of anastrazole. Today is Jan 9th so it’s been 3 weeks since all that has taken place. This last week I started two days of daily Subq injections (14mg) per day for two days but feel terrible so the 3rd day injected the remaining 70mg in one shot. I’m all over the place lol. Please look over these labs and tell me what you recommend to get on track. Thanks

 

[Tremonti22]

Ok here are labs taken on 12-20-2020
Again these were at 160mg injected once a week (every 6 days) , cypionate, IM injection. No E2 / anastrazole taken.
Doc called and said to lower shots to 100mg weekly and gave me some anastrazole. The next week I started the 100mg and took 1/2 a 1mg pill of anastrazole. Today is Jan 9th so it’s been 3 weeks since all that has taken place. This last week I started two days of daily Subq injections (14mg) per day for two days but feel terrible so the 3rd day injected the remaining 70mg in one shot. I’m all over the place lol. Please look over these labs and tell me what you recommend to get on track. Thanks

I do have another round of labs at quest whenever I want so if you feel I should go and get them let me know when and which ones and I’ll get it taken care of

 

[madman]

Thank you bud
I am in the merry go round category for sure. I’ve never really felt quite right since I’ve started this deal and it’s been 4 years lol. I will follow up with this and post my last labs. These labs are when I was taking 160mg injected once weekly every six days. Here’s what I know , I never feel “balanced” always cloudy headed, fatigued, depressed. Sex drive never an issue always ready lol. I know I am super sensitive to anastrazole and when I take even 1/2 a mg pill it will drop my E2 drastically. I’m just tired of messing with this, tired of feeling bad so I’m turning to this site for guidance. After these labs I switched to 100 mg injected once every 6 days. I did take 1/2 a pill of anastrazole to get the 63 E2 down. Perhaps at the new 100mg a week I’ll feel better but it’s already been 3 weeks and no change yet.

You are only 3 weeks in and blood levels have not stabilized and you would need to wait the full 4-6 weeks to get labs done to see where the said protocol has your trough TT/FT/e2 levels let alone other blood markers.

The toughest part will be once labs are done as long as FT levels are healthy and nothing jumps out then you will need to give it 2-3 months for the body to adapt to those new levels as this will be the critical time period to gauge how you truly feel overall on the said protocol.

Otherwise, you are wasting your time.

Even then It would have most likely been more sensible to go from 160 mg (every 6 days) to lowering your weekly dose and splitting it up into twice-weekly injections (every 3.5 days) but unfortunately, your doctor cut your dose drastically 160--->100 mg every 6 days.

Again you are only 3 weeks in and now want to jump on dailies without even giving the new protocol 100 mg (every 6 days) a fighting chance and your doctor is already telling you he is okay with you switching to dailies which is horrible advice.

Do what you feel is best for you but looking over your replies I would look into finding a new doctor as yours seems clueless.

Best of luck to you on whatever path you choose.

 

[madman]

Just looking over the labs you posted!

 

[madman]

Ok here are labs taken on 12-20-2020
Again these were at 160mg injected once a week (every 6 days) , cypionate, IM injection. No E2 / anastrazole taken.
Doc called and said to lower shots to 100mg weekly and gave me some anastrazole. The next week I started the 100mg and took 1/2 a 1mg pill of anastrazole. Today is Jan 9th so it’s been 3 weeks since all that has taken place. This last week I started two days of daily Subq injections (14mg) per day for two days but feel terrible so the 3rd day injected the remaining 70mg in one shot. I’m all over the place lol. Please look over these labs and tell me what you recommend to get on track. Thanks

How many days after your last injection were labs done?

 

[madman]

Waiting for your reply as I am ready to pick this apart.

 

[Tremonti22]

Waiting for your reply as I am ready to pick this apart.

Appreciate your help
Hard to remember but pretty sure it was peak. Injection of 160mg IM 2-3 days prior to collection of labs.

 

[Tremonti22]

Appreciate your help
Hard to remember but pretty sure it was peak. Injection of 160mg IM 2-3 days prior to collection of labs.

Also please note I was wrong on the collection date. Collection date was 12-1-2020. It’s been about 4 weeks at 100mg week. Feel like I’ve had 1000 cups of coffee very cloud head , wirey

 

[Tremonti22]

Also please note I was wrong on the collection date. Collection date was 12-1-2020. It’s been about 4 weeks at 100mg week. Feel like I’ve had 1000 cups of coffee very cloud head , wirey

Collection date is posted on the labs

 

[madman]

Ok here are labs taken on 12-20-2020
Again these were at 160mg injected once a week (every 6 days) , cypionate, IM injection. No E2 / anastrazole taken.

Even if blood work was done 2-3 days post-injection although TT/FT/e2 levels would be expected to be high on such a dose of 160 mg T the true peak would be 8-12 hrs post-injection so levels would have most likely been higher than what lab work shows.

Blood work should always be done at the true trough as we want to know where levels (lowest point) sit just before your next injection to make sure they are not too high which can cause numerous issues or in some cases not too low which would cause low-t symptoms.

The goal of trt is to replace physiological levels of testosterone through the use of exogenous testosterone in order to achieve a healthy TT/FT level which will result in the relief/improvement of low-t symptoms while at the same time minimizing/avoiding any potential side-effects (cosmetic/overall health) while keeping blood markers healthy long-term.

As you can clearly see on the previous protocol 160 mg (every 6 days) your TT/FT levels are very high and keep in mind your FT was testing using one of the most accurate assays Equilibrium Ultrafiltration (reference range 35-155 pg/mL).

Let alone e2 was not tested but seeing as your TT/FT levels are so high estradiol would be sure to follow!

Your RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit is right at the top end of the reference range due to your very high TT/FT level.


Doc called and said to lower shots to 100mg weekly and gave me some anastrazole. The next week I started the 100mg and took 1/2 a 1mg pill of anastrazole.

Although your doctor lowered your dose the grave mistake made was telling you to take an AI not only because we have absolutely no idea where your e2 sat since it was not tested but more importantly lowering your T dose drastically from 160--->100 mg every 6 days will in and of itself lower your estradiol.

Even then it would have been much more sensible to lower your dose and split into twice-weekly injections (every 3.5 days) instead of sticking with injecting once every 6 days.


Today is Jan 9th so it’s been 3 weeks (4 you stated) since all that has taken place. This last week I started two days of daily Subq injections (14mg) per day for two days but feel terrible so the 3rd day injected the remaining 70mg in one shot. I’m all over the place lol.

As I stated in the earlier post that it will take 4-6 weeks for blood levels to stabilize and than blood work needs to be done at the true trough to see where your TT/FT/e2 levels
let alone other blood markers sit.

You are 4 weeks in now and have not had labs done yet but you made a big mistake this past week by jumping on dailies let alone for only 2 days.

Again after blood levels stabilize you would need to give it another 2-3 months for the body to adapt as this is the critical time period when one should gauge how they truly feel overall on such protocol.

The decision is yours to make and you can continue with your current protocol of 100 mg every 6 days and get blood work done in a few weeks although I do not like the fact that you started the daily injections of 14 mg T for 2 days then on day 3 you injected 70 mg, T.

When starting or tweaking a protocol (dose T/injection frequency) it needs to be consistent then once blood levels stabilize (4-6 weeks) blood work needs to be done and should always be at the true trough.

I think you would be much better off injecting 100 mg/week split into twice-weekly injections (50 mg every 3.5 days) or if you are dead set on jumping into dailies then start off on 14 mg T and get blood work done in 6 weeks.

Do what you feel is best for you but I would scrap your current protocol 100 mg T injected every 6 days.

 

[Tremonti22]

I appreciate you looking it over and recognize I’ve made some poor decisions. When your feeling bad you’ll try anything. I am curious why you said E2 wasn’t tested, it was posted @ 63? No biggie. You are right I need to pick a protocol and stick to it and let things level out. Question can I inject the every 3.5 days / 50mg sub q? Or does it need to be IM?

 

[madman]

I appreciate you looking it over and recognize I’ve made some poor decisions. When your feeling bad you’ll try anything. I am curious why you said E2 wasn’t tested, it was posted @ 63? No biggie. You are right I need to pick a protocol and stick to it and let things level out. Question can I inject the every 3.5 days / 50mg sub q? Or does it need to be IM?

My mistake as I looked it over on the labs you posted and your e2 was done and sits where it does due to your high TT/FT level.

Regarding my thoughts on sub-q vs IM.

post#5

Injection locations

Hello, so I just went back on injections. It’s been over a year and a half since I was on them and sort of forgot the good spots for injecting. I am doing my upper thigh for sub Q. But I remember hearing the stomach was pretty good for sub Q. What was the benefits of sub q over IM? Also my e2...

www.excelmale.com

 

[madman]

post#19

Starting cypionate tomorrow - needle size?

What needle size can I get away with? I'll never inject more than 0,2ml (in cottonseed oil). Doctor wants me to do subq but I believe I'll do IM. And do you have any tips for muscles? I'd prefer not to do delts and was thinking about starting with quads.

www.excelmale.com

 

[Tremonti22]

post#19

Starting cypionate tomorrow - needle size?

What needle size can I get away with? I'll never inject more than 0,2ml (in cottonseed oil). Doctor wants me to do subq but I believe I'll do IM. And do you have any tips for muscles? I'd prefer not to do delts and was thinking about starting with quads.

www.excelmale.com

Ok so looks like it doesn’t matter if it’s sub Q or IM. I prefer the small needle of the sub q. Would you have any problems with a 29 gauge 1/2” insulin syringe in the belly area?

 

[madman]

Ok so looks like it doesn’t matter if it’s sub Q or IM. I prefer the small needle of the sub q. Would you have any problems with a 29 gauge 1/2” insulin syringe in the belly area?

Not at all.

I inject strictly sub-q into abdominal fat twice weekly (every 3.5 days) and used to use 28G x 12.7MM (1/2") and eventually switched over to 30-31G x 6MM (almost 1/4").

 

[Tremonti22]

Not at all.

I inject strictly sub-q into abdominal fat twice weekly (every 3.5 days) and used to use 28G x 12.7MM (1/2") and eventually switched over to 30-31G x 6MM (almost 1/4").

Can you explain the every 3.5 days? Lol. How do you figure a 1/2 day?

 

[Tremonti22]

Can you explain the every 3.5 days? Lol. How do you figure a 1/2 day?

Can you explain the every 3.5 days? Lol. How do you figure a 1/2 day?

Also sorry to keep bugging but I’m struggling with the logic of waiting until I’m trough to start every day 14mg subq. Wouldn’t that keep me at trough? It seems to me the best time to start that would be at peak or the next day after a 100mg injection. Of course you know more than I, but can you explain why I should do it at trough?

 

[Cataceous]

Also sorry to keep bugging but I’m struggling with the logic of waiting until I’m trough to start every day 14mg subq. Wouldn’t that keep me at trough? It seems to me the best time to start that would be at peak or the next day after a 100mg injection. Of course you know more than I, but can you explain why I should do it at trough?

It wouldn't keep you at trough, but it would take time to build back up to a steady state. I vote for starting daily injections 3.5 days after the big injection. At half a week out serum testosterone should have fallen to close to its average value. With daily injections you're expecting to have little variation from the average value, so in theory this approach reduces the transition time.