Cypionate Dose Reduction

Thread starter #1
I have posted a few times about my challenges with e2 management. Well, I gave up trying to dial in with Arimidex, and decided to reduce my dose. My first reduction was from 140 to around 120. It wasn’t fun, but I managed. After 6 weeks my e2 was still running hot, so I went down to about 100 a week (.22ml every 3 days). This has probably been the toughest 3 weeks of my life - severe depression, obsessive thoughts, poor cognition, tired, weak, occasional night sweats, etc. The worst part of it all is, I just changed employers, and I am in my 30 day wait period for insurance. So no labs! I stopped taking Arimidex about 2 weeks ago. The weird thing is, I woke up writhing in sweat 2 days ago. No joke, I think I lost 5-10 lbs. I was visibly skinner in the morning. Dr. Crisler, my former Dr. always told me that night sweats were from low e2. How can I have low e2 when I haven’t taken Arimidex for 2 weeks? The other strange part is that my libido is through the roof, but I can only get 3/4 erection. I know, sounds stupid,3/4. It’s an erection, but not rock hard. In conjunction with all of this I am still getting hot flashes. Anyone care to speculate what’s going on? What experiences has everyone had with a dose reduction? When will I feel better? Why the hot flashes, night sweats, impaired cognition, weak, fatigued, depressed, obsessed, etc. None of the symptoms match up with high, or low e2. Is it possible to have high e2 at 100mg’s a week? I’ve been battling this for too long. I am ready to give up.
 

xqfq

Active Member
#2
Hi TDM812, I'm sorry you're feeling frustrated. That definitely sounds like it sucks.

You didn't mention your lab levels (total T, SHBG in particular). Were you experiencing high E2 symptoms or did you just see a high E2 value in blood work?

From what I've read on the forum and elsewhere, increasing the frequency of your injections may decrease E2 without necessarily needing to reduce your testosterone dosage much. I think this may depend on your SHBG and how frequently you're currently injecting.
 
#3
What experiences has everyone had with a dose reduction? When will I feel better? Why the hot flashes, night sweats, impaired cognition, weak, fatigued, depressed, obsessed, etc. None of the symptoms match up with high, or low e2. Is it possible to have high e2 at 100mg’s a week? I’ve been battling this for too long. I am ready to give up.
First, hang in there, I too have gone through similar Hell with reductions in dosage, but coming out the other end have been OK. And, it has taken me longer to start feeling better than just reaching steady state at 4-6 weeks. I believe the body still can take more time to fully adjust. For me up to 2-3 months.

While low E2 can certainly cause night sweats, based on my own personal experience of N=1 I also believe that such symptoms can come from the changing hormone levels rather than the end point from dosage changes. i.e. symptoms are not necessarily from low E2, but due to the changing levels of E2 and T. It is like the body is utterly confused by the changes.

impaired cognition, weak, fatigued, depressed, obsessed, etc.
These are all Low T symptoms, and I believe due to dropping levels. Again, I've had equally as bad or worse symptoms during dosage reduction as having profoundly low Free T and low E2 before starting TRT.

The most confusing times were during adjustment to lower dosage.

And another note, after I reduced all the way to 84mg/week and increased dosage frequency to EOD and tried to tough it out, I still ended up needing an AI. In fact is wasn't until I reduced that far that I started anastrozole. My E2 remained around 35-40 and I do so much better with it in the high 20s, so yes, you can have high E2 in 100mg/week. I also tried daily dosing with the thought I might be able to reduce or eliminate the anastrozole, but immediately felt worse, had more bloating/water retention, and decided it wasn't worth the trouble to tough out yet another change.

And finally, I didn't re-read your entire history, and don't know how you treated the problems in the first place. So my response is only about going through reductions for what sounds like the same reasons that I did. It could be you do better at higher dosage and just need to adjust dosage and AI at that higher dose. Everyone is individual.
 
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Thread starter #4
Hi TDM812, I'm sorry you're feeling frustrated. That definitely sounds like it sucks.

You didn't mention your lab levels (total T, SHBG in particular). Were you experiencing high E2 symptoms or did you just see a high E2 value in blood work?

From what I've read on the forum and elsewhere, increasing the frequency of your injections may decrease E2 without necessarily needing to reduce your testosterone dosage much. I think this may depend on your SHBG and how frequently you're currently injecting.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. My total T was about 1400 peak, free T 3.17 on a .87- 5.47 scale, and SHBG is 42 on a 20-60 scale. I starting splitting my dose 3-4 months ago, and it didn’t seem to do much. I am wondering if I am experiencing estrogen rebound. It’s been about 2 weeks since my last dose. This morning I am experiencing a severe cognitive impairment, depression, wanting to cry over nothing, and feel a little bloated. The odd part is that I woke up with a strong libido. Thoughts?
 
Thread starter #5
First, hang in there, I too have gone through similar Hell with reductions in dosage, but coming out the other end have been OK. And, it has taken me longer to start feeling better than just reaching steady state at 4-6 weeks. I believe the body still can take more time to fully adjust. For me up to 2-3 months.

While low E2 can certainly cause night sweats, based on my own personal experience of N=1 I also believe that such symptoms can come from the changing hormone levels rather than the end point from dosage changes. i.e. symptoms are not necessarily from low E2, but due to the changing levels of E2 and T. It is like the body is utterly confused by the changes.



These are all Low T symptoms, and I believe due to dropping levels. Again, I've had equally as bad or worse symptoms during dosage reduction as having profoundly low Free T and low E2 before starting TRT.

The most confusing times were during adjustment to lower dosage.

And another note, after I reduced all the way to 84mg/week and increased dosage frequency to EOD and tried to tough it out, I still ended up needing an AI. In fact is wasn't until I reduced that far that I started anastrozole. My E2 remained around 35-40 and I do so much better with it in the high 20s, so yes, you can have high E2 in 100mg/week. I also tried daily dosing with the thought I might be able to reduce or eliminate the anastrozole, but immediately felt worse, had more bloating/water retention, and decided it wasn't worth the trouble to tough out yet another change.

And finally, I didn't re-read your entire history, and don't know how you treated the problems in the first place. So my response is only about going through reductions for what sounds like the same reasons that I did. It could be you do better at higher dosage and just need to adjust dosage and AI at that higher dose. Everyone is individual.
Thank you for responding. I appreciate the fact that you can relate. Since it’s been 2 weeks since stopping my AI, and it’s likely just now clearing my system, do you think I am suffering from e2 rebound? Would you advise riding it out? I have compounded .1 Arimidex, so I have the option of taking a tincture, if it would take the edge off while I adjust.
 
#6
Thank you for responding. I appreciate the fact that you can relate. Since it’s been 2 weeks since stopping my AI, and it’s likely just now clearing my system, do you think I am suffering from e2 rebound? Would you advise riding it out? I have compounded .1 Arimidex, so I have the option of taking a tincture, if it would take the edge off while I adjust.
I don't know about E2 "rebound"

I would be hesitant to self treat with AI without labs. It can be pretty easy to confuse high vs low E2 symptoms. And, you did not just discontinue the AI, you also lowered T dose. Hence determining causation of your symptoms is muddy. Much easier when you only change one thing at a time.
 
Thread starter #7
Does anyone have experience with estrogen rebound after stopping Arimidex? I looked at my calendar, and it has been exactly 2 weeks since my last dose. This is evening is probably the worst I have felt. I thought I had experienced depression, but clearly not - this is the real deal. Any thoughts on how long this is going to last? I am extremely tempted to take Arimidex, but my goal is to not use it.
 
Thread starter #9
How much arimidex were you taking?
I was all over the board. I was never able to sit still long enough to stabilize. The last 7 days I was taking Arimidex: 5 days .1 everyday, and the last 2 of the 7 was .2 daily. That crashed me, and I stopped. Fast forward 2 weeks, and here I am.
 

fifty

Well-Known Member
#10
Half life of arimidex is ~60hrs. If you take it every day it will build up over time in your system.

I would try the default: .125 twice a week
 
#11
Ya you were almost taking 1mg per week, which is a very high dose. The stuff is very strong. You could be experiencing very low E2 right now. You lowered your dose quite a bit, so now your E2 is going to drop because of it, and the ai could still be lingering in your system, which could mean your E2 could be pretty low right now. Plus your free T has now dropped due to the dosage decrease. So you might feel like crap due to having both low T symptoms, and low E2 symptoms at the same time. It could definitely be E2 rebound I guess too though. Could be high E2 symptoms mixed with low T symptoms. Either scenario, your T to E ratio is probably a mess.

Every time I’ve taken an ai, usually 0.5 per week is more than enough. 0.5mg per week has taken me from around 70 to low teens before with E2. So if you ever use an ai again, I would try using 0.25mg-0.5mg per week at most, and get labs done. I wouldn’t go any higher unless labs indicated you needed it.
 
Thread starter #12
Ya you were almost taking 1mg per week, which is a very high dose. The stuff is very strong. You could be experiencing very low E2 right now. You lowered your dose quite a bit, so now your E2 is going to drop because of it, and the ai could still be lingering in your system, which could mean your E2 could be pretty low right now. Plus your free T has now dropped due to the dosage decrease. So you might feel like crap due to having both low T symptoms, and low E2 symptoms at the same time. It could definitely be E2 rebound I guess too though. Could be high E2 symptoms mixed with low T symptoms. Either scenario, your T to E ratio is probably a mess.

Every time I’ve taken an ai, usually 0.5 per week is more than enough. 0.5mg per week has taken me from around 70 to low teens before with E2. So if you ever use an ai again, I would try using 0.25mg-0.5mg per week at most, and get labs done. I wouldn’t go any higher unless labs indicated you needed it.

Thank you for responding. I have an extremely active libido. That doesn’t fit the symptoms of an imbalance. Can you ma me anything out of that?
 
#13
Personally speaking, when I tanked my E2 Liz Hurley herself couldn't have given me an erection. And when mine climbed too high I would get the estrogen Dick you are talking about. But as stated the symptoms of high / low can be the same depending on the person. Without labs you are flying blind, and blindly chasing E2 with an AI is one of the most frustrating, fruitless endeavors you can undertake (BELIEVE ME). Ride it out if you can till you can get labs and let it all settle in.
 
#14
I’ve had similar issues in the past trying to chase E2 and varying dosages of Arimidex. Finally figured that’s what was causing the roller coaster feelings. Haven’t taken a AI since December and it’s been by far the best six months out of the past four on T. Try to let go of the AI.
 
Thread starter #15
I’ve had similar issues in the past trying to chase E2 and varying dosages of Arimidex. Finally figured that’s what was causing the roller coaster feelings. Haven’t taken a AI since December and it’s been by far the best six months out of the past four on T. Try to let go of the AI.
Thank you for the inspiration. It’s been an exceptionally painful process. I think I may be in the middle of a breakthrough - last night I woke up in the middle of the night with wood so hard a cat couldn’t scratch it. How long did it take for you to settle out? What was your T dose/Arimidex dose? How painful was the process?
 
#16
Thank you for the inspiration. It’s been an exceptionally painful process. I think I may be in the middle of a breakthrough - last night I woke up in the middle of the night with wood so hard a cat couldn’t scratch it. How long did it take for you to settle out? What was your T dose/Arimidex dose? How painful was the process?
Took 4-5 weeks to really get through it. I take 30mg EOD, no AI. Also now taking 2.5mg Cialis every day.
 

Tman

Active Member
#17
I’ve had similar issues in the past trying to chase E2 and varying dosages of Arimidex. Finally figured that’s what was causing the roller coaster feelings. Haven’t taken a AI since December and it’s been by far the best six months out of the past four on T. Try to let go of the AI.
Did your blood pressure increase without the AI. I can go about a week, then my blood pressure jumps up.
 
#19
How often are you injecting and at what dose? I do EOD and have done labs at 24 hours and 48 hours post injection- you might consider that to really get good data on what’s happening in your own body. Perhaps T levels are spiking more than you realize, which also causes e2 to spike? Just a guess, but easy enough to find out.
 
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