Could my total T drop 795 points in 5 days?

[RickB]

Aug 4:

total 1343 (264-916)
free 22.3 (7.2-24.0)
E2 46.4 (7.6-42.6)


Aug 9:

total 548
free 9.0
E2 <5


Same lab co. but different lab location, same time of day. Both fasting. I can give all kinds of details once I find out if these results are humanly possible. For now I'll just mention that I had not been taking any AI's leading up to the first test, but took 25mg of aromasin on August 5.

 

[MarkM]

Yes, it is possible. I assume you are injecting testosterone. What is your injection protocol and when was the last injection before labs in each instance?

 

[RickB]

My protocol is 200mg test cyp per week. One injection.

My last regular every-7-days injection was 7/23. For reasons not worth mentioning, I took another dose on 7/25.

On 7/27 I had blood work done, total being >1500 and E2 being 37.4.

I decided not to inject again until my total came down near normal. When I saw the results for 8/4 were 1343, I was hoping that by 8/9 I would be around 1000.

 

[Vince]

My protocol is 200mg test cyp per week. One injection.

My last regular every-7-days injection was 7/23. For reasons not worth mentioning, I took another dose on 7/25.

On 7/27 I had blood work done, total being >1500 and E2 being 37.4.

I decided not to inject again until my total came down near normal. When I saw the results for 8/4 were 1343, I was hoping that by 8/9 I would be around 1000.

Are you a low shpg guy?

 

[Vince]

Low SHBG Guys

Guys that have low SHBG, what protocols have you used and what is your SHBG? I’m a low SHBG guy myself (11) prior to starting TRT and have tried ED @20mg and it still put my free over the top and E2 out of control. Just thought we could all share in one post what all we’ve tried and the results.

www.excelmale.com

 

[RickB]

Are you a low shpg guy?

I got started on trt because I was the opposite. I had a high-normal total T, but high SHBG was binding it, causing low-normal free T. The first couple of blood tests on trt showed that my SHBG had gone down to the middle of the normal range, and I haven't had it tested since then.

 

[Cataceous]

SHBG isn't going to affect the rate at which you absorb testosterone cypionate, which is what causes the drop in serum testosterone. The nominal half-life of testosterone cypionate is five days, so the expected drop at the second measurement is to 670 ng/dL. I wouldn't consider a reading of 548 ng/dL to be that unusual; it's well within typical variations for this kind of testing. It's also possible that you absorb a little faster than average, with an apparent half-life of a little under four days.

 

[tareload]

SHBG isn't going to affect the rate at which you absorb testosterone cypionate, which is what causes the drop in serum testosterone. The nominal half-life of testosterone cypionate is five days, so the expected drop at the second measurement is to 670 ng/dL. I wouldn't consider a reading of 548 ng/dL to be that unusual; it's well within typical variations for this kind of testing. It's also possible that you absorb a little faster than average, with an apparent half-life of a little under four days.

My Total T Dropped 795 Points in 5 Days?

The key piece you either aren’t sharing or didn’t measure is SHBG. Your TT kept dropping as you would expect with roughly 5 to 7 day elimination half life. In addition, the aromasin decreased your SHBG, which in turn released T that was bound into free T that could be excreted. Hence, TT...

forums.t-nation.com

Review this and let me know what you think please. Hopefully I've paid attention to your excellent coverage of this topic in the past...



Aromasin and SHBG:

Pharmacokinetics and Dose Finding of a Potent Aromatase Inhibitor, Aromasin (Exemestane), in Young Males

Abstract. Suppression of estrogen, via estrogen receptor or aromatase blockade, is being investigated in the treatment of different conditions. Exemestane (Arom

academic.oup.com

 

[Cataceous]

My Total T Dropped 795 Points in 5 Days?

The key piece you either aren’t sharing or didn’t measure is SHBG. Your TT kept dropping as you would expect with roughly 5 to 7 day elimination half life. In addition, the aromasin decreased your SHBG, which in turn released T that was bound into free T that could be excreted. Hence, TT...

forums.t-nation.com

Review this and let me know what you think please. Hopefully I've paid attention to your excellent coverage of this topic in the past...
...

I have to admit that because of the short time frame I wasn't thinking of falling SHBG as a significant contributing factor to reduced total testosterone. It's certainly possible if the drop is nontrivial. SHBG is said to have a half-life of seven days. If production totally ceased then nominally you'd lose 40% after five days. Maybe this sets the lower limit. That would seem to be enough to matter. The study you reference shows a more muted response, a 21% drop on average after 10 days for the 25 mg dose of exemestane, and in an environment in which the level of androgens is increasing. I'd like to run some numbers, but I need to think a bit more about the apparent need to base half-lives on free testosterone rather than total.

 

[tareload]

I have to admit that because of the short time frame I wasn't thinking of falling SHBG as a significant contributing factor to reduced total testosterone. It's certainly possible if the drop is nontrivial. SHBG is said to have a half-life of seven days. If production totally ceased then nominally you'd lose 40% after five days. Maybe this sets the lower limit. That would seem to be enough to matter. The study you reference shows a more muted response, a 21% drop on average after 10 days for the 25 mg dose of exemestane, and in an environment in which the level of androgens is increasing. I'd like to run some numbers, but I need to think a bit more about the apparent need to base half-lives on free testosterone rather than total.

Realistic TRT Recomp Progress

I’ve been taking mine late in the afternoon. I always sleep like trash so idk if it effects it

forums.t-nation.com

Starting Test + Winstrol

6 mg/day of stanzolol quite potent on HDL-c (Apo A-I): Notice 200 mg/week of TE was termed supraphysiologic back in 1989 :-). Too bad these guys didn’t understand the profound apparent metabolic clearance rates of testosterone esters for the gentlemen of T-NATION :-). Fascinating:

forums.t-nation.com

To your point, SHBG/HDL close to new steady state approx 7 days after starting/ stopping 17aa AAS from these data.

I've never tested aromasin but did observe slight drop in SHBG on anastrozole. Aromasin appears more potent potentially. Thanks for taking a look!

 

[RickB]

SHBG isn't going to affect the rate at which you absorb testosterone cypionate, which is what causes the drop in serum testosterone. The nominal half-life of testosterone cypionate is five days, so the expected drop at the second measurement is to 670 ng/dL. I wouldn't consider a reading of 548 ng/dL to be that unusual; it's well within typical variations for this kind of testing. It's also possible that you absorb a little faster than average, with an apparent half-life of a little under four days.

Thank you. Sorry for the delay in acknowledging your answer; I stopped getting email notifications.

 

[Jed Dorsey]

Same lab but was the same assay used?

 

[RickB]

Same lab but was the same assay used?

I ordered the req myself and chose the same codes for both days.