Cardarine

[RickB]

I just ordered some. I've never taken any SARM (although cardarine is evidently a PPAR rather than a SARM). Has anyone here ever taken it? I'm not expecting all that much from it, as I haven't even found a lot of anecdotal motivation. But I would like to find a non-stimulant fat-burner and/or appetite-suppressant, so I figured I'll give it a chance.

 

[RickB]

I actually used the search bar!!! And I found a few posts about cardarine! Of course, I didn't search before I started this thread, because that would make too much sense. But anyway, there wasn't too much posted about cardarine, so if someone who hasn't posted about it before has anything to add, please do.

 

[BigTex]

Cardarine or GW5015 is a PPAR delta receptor agonist, developed to improve cardiovascular health. I do know a guy who did blood testing before and after and said his lipid values greatly improved. The other thing he noticed that in his work related physical he did remarkable better on the graded exercise stress test than the year before as Cardarine is known to enhance cardiovascular endurance. As far as I know, ALL research done on this are animal studies and GW5015 never made it to clinical trials.

I have taken it a few times but never tested lipid values, I did observe that my cardio work seemed much easier and much less exhausting in the legs than usual.

PPAR delta: a dagger in the heart of the metabolic syndrome - PubMed

Obesity is a growing threat to global health by virtue of its association with insulin resistance, glucose intolerance, hypertension, and dyslipidemia, collectively known as the metabolic syndrome or syndrome X. The nuclear receptors PPARalpha and PPARgamma are therapeutic targets for...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[JmarkH]

Have you considered SR9011, Stenabolic's brother?

 

[RickB]

Cardarine or GW5015 is a PPAR delta receptor agonist, developed to improve cardiovascular health. I do know a guy who did blood testing before and after and said his lipid values greatly improved. The other thing he noticed that in his work related physical he did remarkable better on the graded exercise stress test than the year before as Cardarine is known to enhance cardiovascular endurance. As far as I know, ALL research done on this are animal studies and GW5015 never made it to clinical trials.

I have taken it a few times but never tested lipid values, I did observe that my cardio work seemed much easier and much less exhausting in the legs than usual.

PPAR delta: a dagger in the heart of the metabolic syndrome - PubMed

Obesity is a growing threat to global health by virtue of its association with insulin resistance, glucose intolerance, hypertension, and dyslipidemia, collectively known as the metabolic syndrome or syndrome X. The nuclear receptors PPARalpha and PPARgamma are therapeutic targets for...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yeah, a lot of what I've seen is what you mention. Then occasionally I'll see something brief where someone will say "I got lean on cardarine" with very little explanation. So who really knows. I'll keep an open mind.

I wonder if it making cardio easier is beneficial. What I mean is this: if you're competing, then of course enhancing cardio endurance is beneficial as you will perform better. But if you're heart/lungs are enhanced, then you're taxing your heart/lungs less than usual.

If enhancement means you exercise longer, then that may make up for the less stress. And if you're weight training, then enhanced cardio will allow you to tax your muscles more than usual, because your heart/lungs are affected less. But if you are doing an hour of cardio enhanced versus unenhanced, I would have to think that the unenhanced is going to help you more. It's the same premise as people doing cardio in masks or high elevation. They're doing the opposite of enhancing, and I think that makes sense.

 

[RickB]

Have you considered SR9011, Stenabolic's brother?

I don't know if I knew about that one, and now that I ordered cardarine, I almost don't want to know yet.

I looked up a bunch of SARMS a few months ago, and today when I decided to finally try one, I thought I remembered that there were two for weight loss: cardarine and something else. And I remember the anecdotal results being pretty mixed for both, with a lot of people claiming that at the end of the day neither one actually was for weight loss, but more people seemed to favor cardarine.

For now, I've jotted down SR9011 and will read up on it after a few days on cardarine.

 

[BigTex]

Yeah, a lot of what I've seen is what you mention. Then occasionally I'll see something brief where someone will say "I got lean on cardarine" with very little explanation. So who really knows. I'll keep an open mind.

I wonder if it making cardio easier is beneficial. What I mean is this: if you're competing, then of course enhancing cardio endurance is beneficial as you will perform better. But if you're heart/lungs are enhanced, then you're taxing your heart/lungs less than usual.

If enhancement means you exercise longer, then that may make up for the less stress. And if you're weight training, then enhanced cardio will allow you to tax your muscles more than usual, because your heart/lungs are affected less. But if you are doing an hour of cardio enhanced versus unenhanced, I would have to think that the unenhanced is going to help you more. It's the same premise as people doing cardio in masks or high elevation. They're doing the opposite of enhancing, and I think that makes sense.

Here is the science on exercise endurance. In mice studies, researchers found that cardarine converts more fast twitch fibers into slow twitch, making users less vulnerable to fatigue during exercise.

Regulation of muscle fiber type and running endurance by PPARdelta - PubMed

Endurance exercise training can promote an adaptive muscle fiber transformation and an increase of mitochondrial biogenesis by triggering scripted changes in gene expression. However, no transcription factor has yet been identified that can direct this process. We describe the engineering of a...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In another studyon mice, cardarine was found to increase endurance by 68% in just 3 weeks.

A metabolomic study of the PPARδ agonist GW501516 for enhancing running endurance in Kunming mice

Exercise can increase peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-δ (PPARδ) expression in skeletal muscle. PPARδ regulates muscle metabolism and reprograms muscle fibre types to enhance running endurance. This study utilized metabolomic ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

FYI, this stuff is banned by WADA and the NCAA. Obviously it works or athletes would not be using it in competition.

 

[USMC]

I don't know if I knew about that one, and now that I ordered cardarine, I almost don't want to know yet.

I looked up a bunch of SARMS a few months ago, and today when I decided to finally try one, I thought I remembered that there were two for weight loss: cardarine and something else. And I remember the anecdotal results being pretty mixed for both, with a lot of people claiming that at the end of the day neither one actually was for weight loss, but more people seemed to favor cardarine.

For now, I've jotted down SR9011 and will read up on it after a few days on cardarine.

How is the Cardarine working? I have some, but haven't taken it yet. Would love to hear if it's working..

 

[RickB]

How is the Cardarine working? I have some, but haven't taken it yet. Would love to hear if it's working..

I took 10mg twice a day for a month and did not notice anything at all in any way shape or form. Mine is from Chemyo.

 

[USMC]

I took 10mg twice a day for a month and did not notice anything at all in any way shape or form. Mine is from Chemyo.

Well that is discouraging.. sorry to hear that!

 

[BigTex]

I took this stuff for a while when I was marketing it and I noticed two things....my cardio seemed to be easier to do and my lipid values dropped some. I know another guy who had a physical done at work and part of it was a graded exercise stress test. He had been on Cardarine for some time before the testing, his lipid values changed significantly and his graded exercise stress test improved significantly from the last year. I know this isn't the best proof but it is anecdotal evidence. Fat loses, I did not see any change in body fat but my body fat has always been very low and getting any lower than what I am takes a lot fo work with diet and conditioning. No reason for me to do that.

 

[RickB]

I took this stuff for a while when I was marketing it and I noticed two things....my cardio seemed to be easier to do and my lipid values dropped some. I know another guy who had a physical done at work and part of it was a graded exercise stress test. He had been on Cardarine for some time before the testing, his lipid values changed significantly and his graded exercise stress test improved significantly from the last year. I know this isn't the best proof but it is anecdotal evidence. Fat loses, I did not see any change in body fat but my body fat has always been very low and getting any lower than what I am takes a lot fo work with diet and conditioning. No reason for me to do that.

I didn't take any blood tests, so for all I know it could've had a positive effect on my lipids.

 

[MDavidW76]

… Didn’t notice this earlier…
I did the Starters SARM regiment of Cardarine and Ostarine back in early 2020, worked my butt off, cardio was obscenely easy, I’m talking level 5/8 mainly set to “hills and valleys” on an elliptical, I was actually running upright on the thing for like an hour 4x a week. That aside I was looking at the GW072 which is supposed to be the better alternative, when I stumbled upon this total unit of a PPAR - MBX-8025. It is in clinical trials and it is only available through research chem retailers.

MBX-8025, A Novel Peroxisome Proliferator Receptor-δ Agonist: Lipid and Other Metabolic Effects in Dyslipidemic Overweight Patients Treated with and without Atorvastatin

AbstractContext:. Preclinical and clinical studies suggest that peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor (PPAR)-δ agonists favorably affect multiple meta

academic.oup.com

 

[mikeb29]

I just ordered some. I've never taken any SARM (although cardarine is evidently a PPAR rather than a SARM). Has anyone here ever taken it? I'm not expecting all that much from it, as I haven't even found a lot of anecdotal motivation. But I would like to find a non-stimulant fat-burner and/or appetite-suppressant, so I figured I'll give it a chance.

Its likely to cause cancer, I'd avoid

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Its likely to cause cancer, I'd avoid

This has been widely discussed with no real conclusion. It apparently failed the standard drug test in mice for causing cancer, however that was with continuous dosing over a long period of time, but it is the same test that other drugs have to pass. Some of its effects seem as though they would be anti-cancer, such as reducing fat mass, especially if it reduces visceral fat. Users report that it works very quickly so if someone was using it for occasional cardio then that would reduce the risk from the continuous dosing in the mouse trials, however by how much is unclear. Also, now that quality ketone products (e.g. KetoneAid) are available, it would make sense to try those first for cardio benefits. From what I could tell when I read up on it, one of its effects was very similar to ketones, but I am not an expert on that type of thing. Hopefully one of the big brains in that space will do a quality look at it at some point because it does seem like it has some interesting affects.

 

[mikeb29]

It couldn't be more conclusive, cause high rates of cancer in rats within 2 years and was dropped for any further development.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

It couldn't be more conclusive, cause high rates of cancer in rats within 2 years and was dropped for any further development.

Plenty of things are harmful with chronic dosing (e.g. insulin) and harmless or beneficial with intermittent dosing (e.g. insulin)

 

[BigTex]

It couldn't be more conclusive, cause high rates of cancer in rats within 2 years and was dropped for any further development.

First off, this single study study involved in administering Cardarine to Han Wistar rats for almost two years straight. No one is going to do Cardarine for that long. Second, the median life expectancy of Han Wistar rats is between 30 to 33 months for females and 33 to 36 months for males. So human equivalent, that would be like doing Cardarine every day from the majority of your life. Third, The dosages administered to rats over the two-year study varied widely, but the lowest dosage showing cancer cell proliferation in the rodent model was 3 mg/kg/day in Han Wistar rats for a period of 104 weeks. For an 80 kg human male, you be taking about 45mg for the 2/3 of your life.

In all of the clinical studies conducted on humans using dosages as high as 10 mg per day for 12 weeks, no serious adverse effects or cancer development was reported. The suggested dose for Cardarine is 10mg/d.

Mechanism of action of a peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor (PPAR)-delta agonist on lipoprotein metabolism in dyslipidemic subjects with central obesity - PubMed

GW501516 increased the hepatic removal of VLDL particles, which might have resulted from decreased apoC-III concentration. GW501516 increased apoA-II production, resulting in an increased concentration of LpA-I:A-II particles. This study elucidates the mechanism of action of this PPAR-δ agonist...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Lipid effects of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-δ agonist GW501516 in subjects with low high-density lipoprotein cholesterol: characteristics of metabolic syndrome - PubMed

GW501516 produced significant changes in HDL cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, apoA1, and apoB. Fewer very LDL and larger LDL support a transition toward less atherogenic lipoprotein profiles. These data are consistent with peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-δ being a potentially important...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Triglyceride:high-density lipoprotein cholesterol effects in healthy subjects administered a peroxisome proliferator activated receptor delta agonist - PubMed

This is the first report of a PPARdelta agonist administered to man. In this small study, GW501516 significantly influenced HDLc and TGs in healthy volunteers. Enhanced in vivo serum fat clearance, and the first demonstrated in vitro upregulation in human skeletal muscle fat utilization and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Last thing to remember is rat studies do not necessarily mean the same thing will happen with humans. If there were a huge concern over cancer, the first report of a PPARdelta agonist administered to man would have never taken place. In short, this flawed study proving that Cardarine caused cancer used rats that were prone to getting cancer in the first place. All this being said, I would keep the dose at 5-10mg/d and very short duration <12wks. Also remember that this is a banned substance in the military and any athletic event that tests for performance drugs.

Why Drugs Tested in Mice Fail in Human Clinical Trials - Science in the News

Mice are considered a standard method for drug development in humans, but are these species an ideal model of the human brain?

sitn.hms.harvard.edu

Here is another one I found....see the discussion

Therapeutic potential of GW501516 and the role of Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor β/δ and B-cell lymphoma 6 in inflammatory signaling in human pancreatic cancer cells

Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor β/δ (PPARβ/δ) is a member of the nuclear receptor superfamily and a ligand-activated transcription factor that is involved in the regulation of the inflammatory response via activation ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov